Greg Hibbard Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) Crede (2000-first half of 2005) (.253/.317/.433/.750) PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB/HBP 1690 1550 198 393 80 3 64 226 118/24 Beckham (2009-today) (.246/.314/.383/.697) PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB/HBP 1676 1495 201 368 84 3 38 170 124/30 Apparently, the only difference is roughly 6 home runs per season, and they're almost identical everywhere else. Do they seem close in comparison to you? Or does that 6 homer/season difference loom large? Does Beckham have the potential to develop into a Crede? Edited May 31, 2012 by Greg Hibbard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcullotta Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) "Develop" into a career .254 hitter? The only offensive things Crede had going for him were the HR's and RBI's. If Beckham can't provide those, .254 isn't really worth much to me. Edited May 31, 2012 by pcullotta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (pcullotta @ May 31, 2012 -> 12:06 PM) "Develop" into a career .254 hitter? I would gladly take 1600 future PAs of .262 Gordon Beckham after 1600 PAs of .246 Gordon Beckham. Edited May 31, 2012 by Greg Hibbard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lasttriptotulsa Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (pcullotta @ May 31, 2012 -> 12:06 PM) "Develop" into a career .254 hitter? To be fair, Crede really had developed into a solid ballplayer the latter half of '05 and through '06. After his initial back problems he was never the same. He even won the silver slugger in '06. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsidepride15 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (pcullotta @ May 31, 2012 -> 12:06 PM) "Develop" into a career .254 hitter? As much as we all loved Joe Crede, his career stats with the bat are far from overwhelming. A fan favorite and great with the glove. Beckham is about the same type of player with more speed and versatility. We are all pulling for him to win gold gloves (as we were with Crede) and hit .280+ with 20 HR/season, but I just don't think it's going to happen. Of course, if we go all 2005 this year and Becks ropes doubles into the left field corner and continues his stellar D...then yes, we have ourselves another Joe Crede. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcullotta Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ May 31, 2012 -> 12:08 PM) To be fair, Crede really had developed into a solid ballplayer the latter half of '05 and through '06. After his initial back problems he was never the same. He even won the silver slugger in '06. That's true, and I don't think Gordon will ever be able to have a 30 HR, 94 RBI season but it would be nice to be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Crede was a clucth hitter, and I believe many of us remember him as a better hitter than he actually was. Beckham hasn't shown to be a clutch hitter, yet. Aside from that difference, I would believe it's probably just the HRs that standout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsidepride15 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (pcullotta @ May 31, 2012 -> 12:18 PM) That's true, and I don't think Gordon will ever be able to have a 30 HR, 94 RBI season but it would be nice to be wrong. I agree, but Gordo will never hit in the middle of the lineup and have the opportunity that Crede had to swing for the fences. Still not sure he would hit 30 bombs but that's fine because that's not the player we need him to be. I would say 10-15 HR's and .270 with his defense will be just fine so long as we continue to have a solid all around line-up as we do this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black jack Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) Crede hit when it mattered... or at least appeared to always come though when it mattered most. Beckham is slowly becoming not an automatic out. The only thing comparable to the two right now is their defense, although I think Crede edges him there too. Edited May 31, 2012 by black jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (black jack @ May 31, 2012 -> 12:35 PM) Crede hit when it mattered... or at least appeared to always come though when it mattered most. Beckham is slowly becoming not an automatic out. The only thing comparable to the two right now is their defense, although I think Crede edges him there too. So their batting average, number of hits, runs, doubles, triples, walks, hbp....those aren't comparable? Huh. They seem awfully similar to me. Edited May 31, 2012 by Greg Hibbard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev211 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I'm sure Crede would have finished with much better career numbers if he didn't destroy his back, as he seemed to finally have figured it out when it happened. He dominated the end of 05 and all of 06. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 So their batting average, number of hits, runs, doubles, triples, walks, hbp....those aren't comparable? Huh. They seem awfully similar to me. 50 point difference in SLG is not in any way similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Hibbard Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ May 31, 2012 -> 12:48 PM) 50 point difference in SLG is not in any way similar. Yes. As stated in the original post, Crede has more homers than Beckham. This accounts for the difference in SLG. Not once in this thread did I mention that their SLG was similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 There is a pretty significant difference in RBI's that hasn't been mentioned. Anyways...yes, there is a lot to hope for with Gordon since he's 25, talented, plays good defense at a position that doesn't require a big bat, and has recently started putting together much better at bats. I don't see what is useful in comparing him to Crede since we don't know if Crede was ever going to be a good player. He had one excellent season and then (basically) never played again...so we'll never know if that was a blip on the radar or the sign of many great years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Yes. As stated in the original post, Crede has more homers than Beckham. This accounts for the difference in SLG. Not once in this thread did I mention that their SLG was similar. Regardless of how you get there, a 50 point difference in SLG is significant. You can't just dismiss it by saying that it's just six homers per year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannerfan Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I remember threads back in '05 where the consensious was Joe Crede while great defensively, would never be a decent third baseman because he couldn't hit. Crede invented the infield pop up, he was so slow if a man was on first it was a guaranteed double play. Things like that. Really the same type of criticism Beckham gets now. We tend to be cynical about some of our players when there here, then love them once they're gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Worth pointing out: after that many PA's, Joe Crede was 27. Gordon Beckham is 25.5 currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 31, 2012 -> 01:47 PM) Worth pointing out: after that many PA's, Joe Crede was 27. Gordon Beckham is 25.5 currently. This is the most important thing mentioned in the thread. Not to mention how few minor league at bats Gordon has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsidepride15 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (Tannerfan @ May 31, 2012 -> 01:47 PM) I remember threads back in '05 where the consensious was Joe Crede while great defensively, would never be a decent third baseman because he couldn't hit. Crede invented the infield pop up, he was so slow if a man was on first it was a guaranteed double play. Things like that. Really the same type of criticism Beckham gets now.We tend to be cynical about some of our players when there here, then love them once they're gone. Gordo has above avg speed, does he not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black jack Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (Tannerfan @ May 31, 2012 -> 01:47 PM) I remember threads back in '05 where the consensious was Joe Crede while great defensively, would never be a decent third baseman because he couldn't hit. Crede invented the infield pop up, he was so slow if a man was on first it was a guaranteed double play. Things like that. Really the same type of criticism Beckham gets now. We tend to be cynical about some of our players when there here, then love them once they're gone. This has some truth to it. I used to call him Joe and 2. It seemed like every time he was up to bat, that was the count after two pitches. His swing was long and slow, but he did come around and really tuned in late in ball games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (southsidepride15 @ May 31, 2012 -> 03:57 PM) Gordo has above avg speed, does he not? For about a year and a half, he flat out could not catch up to the fastball. No matter how fast his bat speed was in 2009, in 2011 you could throw a good fastball by him and he'd have no shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 31, 2012 -> 04:11 PM) For about a year and a half, he flat out could not catch up to the fastball. No matter how fast his bat speed was in 2009, in 2011 you could throw a good fastball by him and he'd have no shot. He was talking about his running speed, not bat speed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannerfan Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ May 31, 2012 -> 03:26 PM) He was talking about his running speed, not bat speed I wasn't comparing the two players and saying they had the same deficiencies. I was pointing out that Crede like Beckham now, got criticized quite a bit as a developing player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 QUOTE (pcullotta @ May 31, 2012 -> 12:06 PM) "Develop" into a career .254 hitter? The only offensive things Crede had going for him were the HR's and RBI's. If Beckham can't provide those, .254 isn't really worth much to me. You're out of your mind with that sort of statement. Crede was continuing to improve offensively as his career progressed, e.g. the silver slugger. Beckham won't come close to putting up the type of season Crede put up offensively in '06. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeynach Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Its interesting, but Beckham's lack of power really makes his low BA and OBP seem like he has an awful way to go. If Beckham's SLG every year was .430-.450 we could live with a higher K and lower BA guy with a plus glove. His absence of power really hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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