witesoxfan Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 RBI is a dependant statistic and one that should be ignored when comparing hitters unless you have the ability to hold something constant, which is never the case in baseball. It's cool and all, but Jeff Francouer drove in 208 runs between 2006 and 2007, and, yes, drove in 100+ both seasons. His combined OPS in those 2 seasons was .762, which, during that period of baseball, was good for an OPS+ of 95. QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ May 31, 2012 -> 12:07 PM) I would gladly take 1600 future PAs of .262 Gordon Beckham after 1600 PAs of .246 Gordon Beckham. Given 533 PAs a season, that's 8-9 more hits a season. It's 1-2 hits more per month. It's a minuscule number of hits more per game. I'd rather see a .246 Beckham who hits 15 homers a season than a .262 Beckham who hits 10, because then we know he has added atleast 5 runs among those 8-9 hits that he's lost. QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ May 31, 2012 -> 12:49 PM) Yes. As stated in the original post, Crede has more homers than Beckham. This accounts for the difference in SLG. Not once in this thread did I mention that their SLG was similar. For whatever reason, you also didn't mention strikeouts. Not even looking at their first 1600 PAs, just based on careers, Gordon Beckham already has 1 season where he struck out more than 100 times. Joe Crede never did that. In fact, in 3,377 PAs, Crede struck out 459 times. In 1,676 PAs, Beckham has already struck out 301 times, and I don't really recall anybody talking about Beckham's strikeouts ever really being a big problem, because frankly, they're not. It's not a strong part of his game, but it's much worse than Crede unless he can somehow channel his inner-Dimaggio and strike out only 158 times between now and 1700 PAs from now. That part is important, because Beckham is a better hitter than Crede was. Crede was solid, but because of his ability to make good contact, he simply found more holes on balls that Beckham strikes out on. Beckham has good bat speed, better than Crede, but it's generally too long and is not a problem that is easily correctable. I really like Beckham too. Perhaps he'll start and/or continue hitting at some point down the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ May 31, 2012 -> 01:03 PM) There is a pretty significant difference in RBI's that hasn't been mentioned. Anyways...yes, there is a lot to hope for with Gordon since he's 25, talented, plays good defense at a position that doesn't require a big bat, and has recently started putting together much better at bats. I don't see what is useful in comparing him to Crede since we don't know if Crede was ever going to be a good player. He had one excellent season and then (basically) never played again...so we'll never know if that was a blip on the radar or the sign of many great years to come. http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/batting/_/pos.../OPS/order/true If you look at those stats, Gordon Beckham's 19 out of the 22 qualified 2B in OPS. If you consider his defense, overall, he's probably close to an "average" MLB 2B. But looking at some of those OPS numbers, you'd almost argue 2B is more of an offensive position than 3B. If Gordon can legitimately be at least a 700 or maybe 725 net ops player, then he's not someone you talk about replacing or non-tendering and is an asset. Where he's at now, it could be either way, but the trend has been upwards so clearly he deserves to continue to hold the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkjt Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Joe Crede was getting hammered by fans on message boards right up until he returned from his hand injury in Sept,2005....he caught fire then,and was amazing in Sept/Oct 05,and the 06 season. I defended ''Super-Joe'' for years before he took off. I will defend Gordo now. Beckham is a valuable player,defensively,like Joe,and will hit better as his career progresses. He has good speed on the basepaths also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 Crede helped us win a world series and earned the nickname Joe "Clutch" Crede, or "Rally" Crede... Beckham has done nothing, and lost the nickname "Bacon Slayer", because they only thing he slays is rallys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ May 31, 2012 -> 05:24 PM) Crede was a clucth hitter, and I believe many of us remember him as a better hitter than he actually was. Beckham hasn't shown to be a clutch hitter, yet. Aside from that difference, I would believe it's probably just the HRs that standout. Joe Crede equals clutch hitter... YES! Beckham is still developing so I am not giving up on him. He has the talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elrockinMT Posted June 1, 2012 Share Posted June 1, 2012 QUOTE (Hawk09 @ Jun 1, 2012 -> 04:05 PM) Joe Crede was getting hammered by fans on message boards right up until he returned from his hand injury in Sept,2005....he caught fire then,and was amazing in Sept/Oct 05,and the 06 season. I defended ''Super-Joe'' for years before he took off. I will defend Gordo now. Beckham is a valuable player,defensively,like Joe,and will hit better as his career progresses. He has good speed on the basepaths also. I am on your side Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jun 1, 2012 -> 11:09 AM) Crede helped us win a world series and earned the nickname Joe "Clutch" Crede, or "Rally" Crede... Beckham has done nothing, and lost the nickname "Bacon Slayer", because they only thing he slays is rallys. I was only kidding about Beckham... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jun 1, 2012 -> 11:12 PM) I was only kidding about Beckham... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkjt Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Thanks for validating my support,Gordo!! The kid is looking good lately! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 2, 2012 Share Posted June 2, 2012 Yeah, well, yeah. I talk s***, he only homers twice off a former Cy Young winner. ONLY 8 FEWER HITS TO GO GORDON! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ May 31, 2012 -> 12:24 PM) Crede was a clucth hitter, and I believe many of us remember him as a better hitter than he actually was. Beckham hasn't shown to be a clutch hitter, yet. Aside from that difference, I would believe it's probably just the HRs that standout. Meh. You only remember clutch because Crede ha dbig hits when it mattered. To be fair to Beckham, he hasn't that that bright spotlight. I also think it's unfair to compare RBI's, since Beckham spent much of him time last year hitting at the bottom of the order behind guys that couldn't get on to save their lives. A lot of those teams Crede played on, those guys go on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (joeynach @ May 31, 2012 -> 09:41 PM) Its interesting, but Beckham's lack of power really makes his low BA and OBP seem like he has an awful way to go. If Beckham's SLG every year was .430-.450 we could live with a higher K and lower BA guy with a plus glove. His absence of power really hurts. Gordon is on pace for a 24 HR year now, after a horrid april. Slugged .435 in May, and much higher than that so far in june. (or if you add june in) All he needs to do is keep that up, so I don't think he has that far to go. Edited June 3, 2012 by MAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 He has the potential to make us forget about Crede. Potential is a tough mistress. Crede, for a stretch played as well as any 3rd baseman since I have been a Sox fan. However, there is another guy in the dugout that was better longer. If Beckham can avoid busted ankles (Ventura), knees (Baines), and backs (Crede), he could have a very nice, solid, mlb career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.