cabiness42 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I made my grades by comparing players to league averages for their position, not according to anybody's expectations for them. If you were expected to be the best DH in the league and you're the second best DH in the league, you still get an A/A- even though you aren't meeting expectations. If you were expected to be the worst 2B in the league and you're the second worst 2B, you still get a D because you still suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 02:30 PM) he is also in the top five of the Cy Young race, and has a career best WHIP, is .25 ERA better than even his SD numbers, along with a career bests in K/9, BB/9, and K/BB. Plus a close to career best in HR/9 You sure about those numbers? He put up several seasons in SD with higher k/9 than this season. He also had 4 seasons there with an ERA under 2.86.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 02:32 PM) You really are a piece of work. You know who has numbers even more sustainable than Adam Dunn? Brent Morel. He gets an A+ Thanks DA, I'll take that as a compliment As for sustainable vs. unsustainable, I think you've misunderstood my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 02:33 PM) You sure about those numbers? He put up several seasons in SD with higher k/9 than this season. He also had 4 seasons there with an ERA under 2.86.... I didn't mean to put the K/9 in there. The rest are dead on. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/peavyja01.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Thread's spun out of control a bit here, although the arguments are entertaining. I don't agree with a C for Dunn, either, but I can see both sides of the argument. My view is that Dunn would be expected to (over a season) bat .240ish with 40+ HRs and 100+ RBIs. He's on pace for those numbers, although his BA is a bit low. His OBP and OPS+ are high. I say that because he's performing as he should, he gets a high B/low A. If his BA was up around .260 and he had less strikeouts, then he'd be a solid A. I suppose you could argue Konerko is an A+, and I'd agree with that, because he's performing above expectations. Whether or not those numbers are sustainable is moot if you're grading him on his year so far. Who knows what the rest of the year holds for him. But, if he ends up with numbers like .300/30 HRs/100 RBIs, is that a grade A performance? I'd say so. So if Dunn ends up with numbers like .245/43 HRs/110 RBIs, wouldn't that be an A? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 02:35 PM) I didn't mean to put the K/9 in there. The rest are dead on. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/peavyja01.shtml I also don't have the same expectations for him, post shoulder surgery. Dunn has no such limitations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 02:35 PM) I didn't mean to put the K/9 in there. The rest are dead on. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/peavyja01.shtml He has certainly been outstanding, I wouldn't argue that, but his numbers are trending upwards quickly...To say he is a better pitcher now than he was in San Diego...I'd have a really difficult time believing that...He had 3 seasons in SD that I would consider him to be better than this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 No word on Dome injury. No confirmation of Q for Weds., yet. What to discuss? How 'bout the Sale timetable? Clearly, our boy can't go 110 pitches+ and not missing starts from now through October, so how do they handle his time off, but knowing that he'll be essential to a pennant drive/postseason? I think they should let him have his next 6 starts, the last of those being Saturday, July 7, if we maintain the 5 man(and I think they will), regardless of off days. At that point, you let him pitch the top of the 1st inning on Tuesday night the 10th in Kansas City, thus fulfilling my prophecy years ahead of schedule, and then shut him down til a return on Monday, August 20th to open a home series against the Yanks. It's a solid 6 weeks off, and allows him 9 starts (if all are needed) until the end of the season. With the slightest of tweaks in mid-September, that schedule would also allow him to pitch in every Tiger/Indian series between late August and the final series in Cleveland in Oct. It should also leave him with ~160 IP. Is that too many? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 02:36 PM) I also don't have the same expectations for him, post shoulder surgery. Dunn has no such limitations. And that's fair...I don't have a problem with giving Jake an A...I guess I don't think a grading scale should be based on your subjective expectations... Dunn is coming off the worst season in modern professional baseball history...yet your expectations were exactly what he is doing now....and therefore he gets a C... But hey, it's your thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cali Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 What are Reed's splits between Save Situations and Non-Save situations? Are they drastic or similar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 01:43 PM) And that's fair...I don't have a problem with giving Jake an A...I guess I don't think a grading scale should be based on your subjective expectations... Dunn is coming off the worst season in modern professional baseball history...yet your expectations were exactly what he is doing now....and therefore he gets a C... But hey, it's your thread. it's like banging your head against a wall repeatedly with these two. they don't understand value in baseball, so there's no way to convince them otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 12:40 PM) He has certainly been outstanding, I wouldn't argue that, but his numbers are trending upwards quickly...To say he is a better pitcher now than he was in San Diego...I'd have a really difficult time believing that...He had 3 seasons in SD that I would consider him to be better than this year. You also have to take into account the park factor. Peavy has been dynamite this year. And pre-injury he was one of the best pitchers in the game. People forget that. He's finally 2 years removed and we are seeing the benefits of him having a normal off-season. I don't know if he'll keep it up, but the stuff is great and I think (that said, I was one of the few people backing Peavy this off-season) he'll be one of the better pitchers in baseball all year. That said, you never know what could happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (Cali @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 02:54 PM) What are Reed's splits between Save Situations and Non-Save situations? Are they drastic or similar? He hasn't been scored upon in a save situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 12:43 PM) And that's fair...I don't have a problem with giving Jake an A...I guess I don't think a grading scale should be based on your subjective expectations... Dunn is coming off the worst season in modern professional baseball history...yet your expectations were exactly what he is doing now....and therefore he gets a C... But hey, it's your thread. Correction: It is everyone's thread. Grades are as subjective as it gets and everyone is entitled to their opinions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 03:00 PM) it's like banging your head against a wall repeatedly with these two. they don't understand value in baseball, so there's no way to convince them otherwise. Its funny because you ran away pretty quick after throwing around some insults only to see those advanced stats blow up in your face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 02:00 PM) You also have to take into account the park factor. Peavy has been dynamite this year. And pre-injury he was one of the best pitchers in the game. People forget that. He's finally 2 years removed and we are seeing the benefits of him having a normal off-season. I don't know if he'll keep it up, but the stuff is great and I think (that said, I was one of the few people backing Peavy this off-season) he'll be one of the better pitchers in baseball all year. That said, you never know what could happen. Yeah, and the League factor...my guess is he was negatively affected by some of the PED users then though...so my guess is it balances out fairly closely. I think Jake ends up around 3.5-3.75 era with 190 k's or so and a WHIP in the 1.20 range...which would be outstanding as far as I'm concerned... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 02:43 PM) And that's fair...I don't have a problem with giving Jake an A...I guess I don't think a grading scale should be based on your subjective expectations... Dunn is coming off the worst season in modern professional baseball history...yet your expectations were exactly what he is doing now....and therefore he gets a C... But hey, it's your thread. Um, all discussion here is based on subjective expectations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 02:01 PM) Correction: It is everyone's thread. Grades are as subjective as it gets and everyone is entitled to their opinions. Well, ss2k seemed to take an ownership over the grade scale...and that's fine...I was merely seeking to understand his logic. The thread did exactly what we hoped it would on an offday, which was to create some discussion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 03:00 PM) You also have to take into account the park factor. Peavy has been dynamite this year. And pre-injury he was one of the best pitchers in the game. People forget that. He's finally 2 years removed and we are seeing the benefits of him having a normal off-season. I don't know if he'll keep it up, but the stuff is great and I think (that said, I was one of the few people backing Peavy this off-season) he'll be one of the better pitchers in baseball all year. That said, you never know what could happen. And that is without his ability to his 95-96 on a regular basis anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Reddy @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 03:00 PM) it's like banging your head against a wall repeatedly with these two. they don't understand value in baseball, so there's no way to convince them otherwise. Get a clue. You actually said someone needs to read a book about fantasy baseball to understand how the game is played. Talk about someone in la la land Edited June 4, 2012 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 02:04 PM) Um, all discussion here is based on subjective expectations. I'd like to think most of it is based on objective facts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Adam Dunn is on pace for a 4.1 WAR - which would be his HIGHEST TOTAL since 2004. how does that not warrant an A? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 03:03 PM) Yeah, and the League factor...my guess is he was negatively affected by some of the PED users then though...so my guess is it balances out fairly closely. I think Jake ends up around 3.5-3.75 era with 190 k's or so and a WHIP in the 1.20 range...which would be outstanding as far as I'm concerned... I would throw a curveball here and say I wouldn't be shocked if Jake were a PED's guy at some point. The loss of velocity plus the odd ball injuries beg the question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 03:06 PM) I'd like to think most of it is based on objective facts... So what is your exact grading scale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Reddy/2k...calm down. No need to bicker back and forth. Lets stick to the actual discussion at hand. Which, there has been some good ole fashion healthy debate/discussion throughout this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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