Work/College/Finance

[iamshack]

Then what is its purpose?

 

You cant teach someone how to make money.

Its purpose has obviously become to prepare young people to succeed in the world.

 

What exactly are you trying to argue? That college should be some place for people to go off and ponder and debate high-level ideas, with no real-world applications?

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Its purpose has obviously become to prepare young people to succeed in the world.

 

What exactly are you trying to argue? That college should be some place for people to go off and ponder and debate high-level ideas, with no real-world applications?

 

Damn. I think I just figured out how to turn Soxtalk into a money maker.

 

Welcome to Soxtalk University, cost $50,000/yr.

[iamshack]

I know it doesn't apply to all careers, but at least in the field I'm in, I firmly believe there's a huge advantage to a "classical" education, in terms of actually starting to understand how to think and react to opinions, arguments, data, etc.

I'm pretty sure all college programs have real-world applications...you've just got to understand what to take from them.

 

I have a history degree, which Steve sort of implied earlier is pretty useless. And it can be. But it taught me how to write and research well, which were good skills to have when I attended law school. In law school, I learned how to analyze data, understand and digest complex subject matter, learn what was important and what wasn't, advanced my speaking and writing skills, etc.

 

These things have helped me immensely in my career, despite not practicing law.

 

I am sure most fields teach particular skills that can be utilized in any career field as well. You just have to understand how to apply them.

[EvilMonkey]

100% agree. We need to shift our post-high school education model to something that's not dominated by the liberal arts schools. They are good for social development, terrible for career development.

But THOSE schools tend to be non-union staffed and considered 'for profit' schools, so according to all sorts of government bodies, they are bad.

[Balta1701]

But THOSE schools tend to be non-union staffed and considered 'for profit' schools, so according to all sorts of government bodies, they are bad.

They're bad because they do a terrible job, cost a ton of money, and leave a huge fraction of their "graduates" completely unprepared for anything, to the point where if they had any requirements for "graduates actually have the skills required for their jobs", they'd all be shut down.

 

Edit: And very few universities have any union presence these days, so I'm not sure why that slam even gets included.

[Steve9347]

I haven't eaten McDonald's in years and years...

 

I prepare almost all of my own meals myself.

I was totally kidding.

 

When the wife and I cleaned up our eating habits and got in insane shape, we turned to making dinner all the time. Sure, the grocery bill goes up, but not eating at restaurants much at all saves so much f***ing money.

[Soxbadger]

Its purpose has obviously become to prepare young people to succeed in the world.

 

What exactly are you trying to argue? That college should be some place for people to go off and ponder and debate high-level ideas, with no real-world applications?

 

Im arguing that college should be whatever the person wants it to be. If I dont want to go to college to become prepared for whatever you consider "success" to be, then I shouldnt have to. I should have the freedom to take whatever classes I want, get whatever degree I want and do what I want.

 

If that does not make me prepared for the real world, guess what, that is my problem. Why should I be punished because other people need their hand being held?

 

Success is different for everyone. Success to me isnt about how many 0s are in my paycheck, success to me is about making a meaningful impact on the world, an indelible stain that you did something for the better.

 

So yes, the point of college is to go to a place where hopefully for the first time you are meeting people who are equally thoughtful and intelligent, where you can actually test your mental might, instead of just bludgeoning weaker opponents. College is a place where hopefully you have professors etc, who challenge your preconceived notions and make you wonder what is really possible.

 

If America is to succeed it will not be because we our society is perfect efficient machine, it will because of the creativity that flows from freedom.

 

No real world application, how do you know unless you try?

 

I guess I just dont think that there is a problem with getting classic liberal arts degrees, but you have to be getting them for the right reasons, you have to be okay with the fact that you may not be the richest person on the block.

[bigruss]

Im arguing that college should be whatever the person wants it to be. If I dont want to go to college to become prepared for whatever you consider "success" to be, then I shouldnt have to. I should have the freedom to take whatever classes I want, get whatever degree I want and do what I want.

 

If that does not make me prepared for the real world, guess what, that is my problem. Why should I be punished because other people need their hand being held?

 

Success is different for everyone. Success to me isnt about how many 0s are in my paycheck, success to me is about making a meaningful impact on the world, an indelible stain that you did something for the better.

 

So yes, the point of college is to go to a place where hopefully for the first time you are meeting people who are equally thoughtful and intelligent, where you can actually test your mental might, instead of just bludgeoning weaker opponents. College is a place where hopefully you have professors etc, who challenge your preconceived notions and make you wonder what is really possible.

 

If America is to succeed it will not be because we our society is perfect efficient machine, it will because of the creativity that flows from freedom.

 

No real world application, how do you know unless you try?

 

I guess I just dont think that there is a problem with getting classic liberal arts degrees, but you have to be getting them for the right reasons, you have to be okay with the fact that you may not be the richest person on the block.

And maybe you shouldn't attend a $50k/yr private school for that liberal arts degree.

 

The problem is, too many of these students go into these expensive schools, get degrees that don't have good prospective jobs, and yet still complain about college costs and the economy.

[iamshack]

Im arguing that college should be whatever the person wants it to be. If I dont want to go to college to become prepared for whatever you consider "success" to be, then I shouldnt have to. I should have the freedom to take whatever classes I want, get whatever degree I want and do what I want.

 

If that does not make me prepared for the real world, guess what, that is my problem. Why should I be punished because other people need their hand being held?

 

Success is different for everyone. Success to me isnt about how many 0s are in my paycheck, success to me is about making a meaningful impact on the world, an indelible stain that you did something for the better.

 

So yes, the point of college is to go to a place where hopefully for the first time you are meeting people who are equally thoughtful and intelligent, where you can actually test your mental might, instead of just bludgeoning weaker opponents. College is a place where hopefully you have professors etc, who challenge your preconceived notions and make you wonder what is really possible.

 

If America is to succeed it will not be because we our society is perfect efficient machine, it will because of the creativity that flows from freedom.

 

No real world application, how do you know unless you try?

 

I guess I just dont think that there is a problem with getting classic liberal arts degrees, but you have to be getting them for the right reasons, you have to be okay with the fact that you may not be the richest person on the block.

I'm not really sure what you're arguing against...

 

But we have a high school system that primarily prepares everyone to attend college when a good number either aren't interested, aren't intelligent enough, aren't willing or able to pay for college, or some combination of the three.

 

So let's help those kids out too, by teaching them vocational skills instead of making them sit in an English Literature class they have absolutely no interest in.

Edited June 13, 2012 by iamshack

[Soxbadger]

And maybe you shouldn't attend a $50k/yr private school for that liberal arts degree.

 

The problem is, too many of these students go into these expensive schools, get degrees that don't have good prospective jobs, and yet still complain about college costs and the economy.

 

Why shouldnt I attend a $50k school if I can pay for it?

 

Who are you to tell me how to spend my money and what I can spend it on?

 

People complain about everything. People complain constantly, so we are going to change things to stop people from complaining?

 

Thats ridiculous, so far no one has explained to me why we need to coddle these kids. Its so frustrating, from preschool through law school they just coddle everyone. Such a waste.

 

 

[iamshack]

Why shouldnt I attend a $50k school if I can pay for it?

 

Who are you to tell me how to spend my money and what I can spend it on?

 

People complain about everything. People complain constantly, so we are going to change things to stop people from complaining?

 

Thats ridiculous, so far no one has explained to me why we need to coddle these kids. Its so frustrating, from preschool through law school they just coddle everyone. Such a waste.

I have absolutely no idea where you are going with this.

 

Perhaps I was coddled too much?

[Soxbadger]

I'm not really sure what you're arguing against...

 

But we have a high school system that primarily prepares everyone to attend college when a good number either aren't interested, aren't intelligent enough, aren't willing or able to pay for college, or some combination of the three.

 

So let's help those kids out too, by teaching them vocational skills instead of making them sit in an English Literature class they have absolutely no interest in.

 

Well then that isnt about college, that is about High School which is entirely different as High School is mandatory where College is optional.

 

I agree that students in High School should have much more freedom to chose what they want to do, and if they want to take mechanic/shop class or electrical etc, sure whatever. But if they want to take English Literature, even if they arent smart, they should get to do that as well.

 

Im arguing against the idea that there should be more structure in College, that College should be more focused on preparing people for the real world.

 

Do that on your own time, I didnt pay for that nonsense.

[Soxbadger]

I have absolutely no idea where you are going with this.

 

Perhaps I was coddled too much?

 

I dont know if you were coddled or not.

 

Where I am going with this is people are saying that College should be more focused towards getting people jobs or real world skills, and Im saying there are plenty other places to learn that stuff, it shouldnt be in college.

 

Seems straight forward to me.

[southsider2k5]

I have absolutely no idea where you are going with this.

 

Perhaps I was coddled too much?

 

Forget it, he's rolling.

[Jenksismyhero]

Why shouldnt I attend a $50k school if I can pay for it?

 

Who are you to tell me how to spend my money and what I can spend it on?

 

People complain about everything. People complain constantly, so we are going to change things to stop people from complaining?

 

Thats ridiculous, so far no one has explained to me why we need to coddle these kids. Its so frustrating, from preschool through law school they just coddle everyone. Such a waste.

 

Well, to be fair to those kids, they're being lied to. "Get a college education and your life is amazing" is the message, from teachers to the President. In reality, the education that students receive (for an insane amount of money) doesn't guarantee anyone that, and what's worse is that it barely prepares them for a future career. Specific education in specific fields should be how the system is set up, not a generalized post-high school education like we have now. Two of the most popular majors, Business and Political Science are 100% worthless in trying to get a job.

[iamshack]

I dont know if you were coddled or not.

 

Where I am going with this is people are saying that College should be more focused towards getting people jobs or real world skills, and Im saying there are plenty other places to learn that stuff, it shouldnt be in college.

 

Seems straight forward to me.

Well, the problem is, like the last 6 Presidents have done nothing but tell everyone they need to strive to get a college education "to prepare them for the real world." You're acting as if this is the first time you've heard of this concept.

 

So now everyone's been brainstormed that they must attend college otherwise they will be standing in line at the soup kitchen. Meanwhile, the cost of attending college has been shooting up for 25 years while wages have stagnated.

 

I guess maybe the pendulum has just been swung a bit too far.

[iamshack]

Well, to be fair to those kids, they're being lied to. "Get a college education and your life is amazing" is the message, from teachers to the President. In reality, the education that students receive (for an insane amount of money) doesn't guarantee anyone that, and what's worse is that it barely prepares them for a future career. Specific education in specific fields should be how the system is set up, not a generalized post-high school education like we have now. Two of the most popular majors, Business and Political Science are 100% worthless in trying to get a job.

See, this is where I agree with Badger. This is the kids' problem...students go and get these majors and then they come out and expect to go stand in the line where the other Poli Sci majors are at and wait for their job to be handed to them.

 

Use the freaking skills you learned and go apply them to whatever job you can get your hands on. If our college grads aren't seeing this, then they probably shouldn't have gone to college.

Edited June 13, 2012 by iamshack

[RockRaines]

I was totally kidding.

 

When the wife and I cleaned up our eating habits and got in insane shape, we turned to making dinner all the time. Sure, the grocery bill goes up, but not eating at restaurants much at all saves so much f***ing money.

Yes, yes it does. I eat out at least 3 nights a week and our bills are anywhere from 20-100 per meal. It adds up.

[bigruss]

Why shouldnt I attend a $50k school if I can pay for it?

 

Who are you to tell me how to spend my money and what I can spend it on?

 

People complain about everything. People complain constantly, so we are going to change things to stop people from complaining?

 

Thats ridiculous, so far no one has explained to me why we need to coddle these kids. Its so frustrating, from preschool through law school they just coddle everyone. Such a waste.

How many students can truly afford a $50k/yr liberal arts degree, probably very few.

 

Students need direction, from HS teachers and advisors, so they don't screw up their life by going to a school they can't afford and a degree that doesn't provide a living, because most high schoolers have no idea how expensive life is without mom and dad's help.

[bigruss]

I dont know if you were coddled or not.

 

Where I am going with this is people are saying that College should be more focused towards getting people jobs or real world skills, and Im saying there are plenty other places to learn that stuff, it shouldnt be in college.

 

Seems straight forward to me.

Where? What other places provide the ability to make $55-70k at the age of 22?

[Soxbadger]

Well, to be fair to those kids, they're being lied to. "Get a college education and your life is amazing" is the message, from teachers to the President. In reality, the education that students receive (for an insane amount of money) doesn't guarantee anyone that, and what's worse is that it barely prepares them for a future career. Specific education in specific fields should be how the system is set up, not a generalized post-high school education like we have now. Two of the most popular majors, Business and Political Science are 100% worthless in trying to get a job.

 

Society is lying to people. This is not new, but trying to fix College to guarantee a job, is nothing more than the same repetitive lie. If there are X college graduates and Y jobs, it doesnt matter what you taught X if Y is less than the number.

 

That is why the focus should be more on, "Is College really a good decision for you?" because College simply is not for everyone, at least not $20k+ a year college. So if College isnt really for you, maybe you get a cheap degree at a community college because getting a job and having experience, is often better than coming out of college with a fancy degree.

 

 

Well, the problem is, like the last 6 Presidents have done nothing but tell everyone they need to strive to get a college education "to prepare them for the real world." You're acting as if this is the first time you've heard of this concept.

 

So now everyone's been brainstormed that they must attend college otherwise they will be standing in line at the soup kitchen. Meanwhile, the cost of attending college has been shooting up for 25 years while wages have stagnated.

 

I guess maybe the pendulum has just been swung a bit too far.

 

 

Its not the first time Ive heard the concept, I just dont agree with the concept. So instead of coming here and keeping with the meme that everyone must go to the most expensive College, Im saying that we should reevaluate that. Maybe its not worth $100k over 4 years, maybe its really only worth $10k, so that should impact your decision where you go to College.

 

I just dont see how you can realistically say that spending $100k to go to a vocational school is worth it, when youre probably better off just going to a job and offering to start at minimum wage.

[iamshack]

How many students can truly afford a $50k/yr liberal arts degree, probably very few.

 

Students need direction, from HS teachers and advisors, so they don't screw up their life by going to a school they can't afford and a degree that doesn't provide a living, because most high schoolers have no idea how expensive life is without mom and dad's help.

Part of this is on the parents, as well. It seems like with many parents working more, there is obviously less parenting going on, which means less-prepared children.

 

But maybe it's like what Frank Gallagher famously said..."Best gift a parent can give is neglect. Neglect fosters self-reliance."

[Soxbadger]

Where? What other places provide the ability to make $55-70k at the age of 22?

 

How is earning $55k-$70k at age 22 a real life skill?

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

See, this is where I agree with Badger. This is the kids' problem...students go and get these majors and then they come out and expect to go stand in the line where the other Poli Sci majors are at and wait for their job to be handed to them.

 

Use the freaking skills you learned and go apply them to whatever job you can get your hands on. If our college grads aren't seeing this, then they probably shouldn't have gone to college.

 

But my point is the skills in those courses don't provide you with anything. College education should be more focused, and SOME schools do that, but not all. "Business" could apply to anything, how can a degree in "business" classes provide you with any skills in the real world? Same with political science.

 

 

[iamshack]

But my point is the skills in those courses don't provide you with anything. College education should be more focused, and SOME schools do that, but not all. "Business" could apply to anything, how can a degree in "business" classes provide you with any skills in the real world? Same with political science.

And my point is that they do, the students are just too damn stupid or lazy to understand what it is.

 

College is not just a tax you pay so that you can be given a job when you complete it.

 

I'm sure there are all sorts of things that one can learn in a business program.

 

I listed the real world skills I learned from freaking my History degree, for the love of pete.