bigruss Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:16 PM) Not everyone can have concrete plans. You are asking 18 year olds to make life decisions before they truly are ready. That is the problem with how expensive College is, you cant just go there and find out, you really need to already have a plan, which is so counterproductive to the College experience. No, Im asking them to at least go in a flexible major and have a GENERAL idea of what they want to do. I don't expect anyone to map out their career at the age of 18, college is a time to find out about yourself and your interests. By that I mean, major in English instead of Journalism, so you can teach, be an editor, etc compared to just be a journalist. If you get a history degree, know why you want one. Is it to improve writing and research skills? Is it because you want to teach? If you just have a passion for something, maybe it's best to have it as a second major or as a minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:19 PM) Then if its such a smart decision, those who went to College shouldnt complain. I obviously made a conscious effort to get a College degree, so it stands to reason I believed that it was worth it. But if any of my friends started b****ing about going to College, Id really have little pity for them. The ones that are complaining are the ones that 1) Didn't do anything while in school to progress their job search or 2) chose a major that doesn't have a clear career path and did nothing to find a way to utilize the degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 01:18 PM) Exactly, so to bring my point back full circle, don't you see the problem with college now? That the entire economy is basically requiring that you get a piece of paper that's essentially pointless**? Why not push vocational schools which are essentially apprenticeships? Why don't employers view that as a positive? Laziness? Don't want to check into your job candidate, better to weed them out based on where they got a degree? I don't know, but that's where we're at. More "educated" but inexperienced people looking for jobs. **and yes, you obviously learn skills and other useful information in college. But a lot of that can be learned through internships/early jobs. But the problem is if you go that route you're limiting your future earning potential in 95% of cases. The problem isn't with our colleges, its with the amount of money they are charging to attend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:18 PM) Exactly, so to bring my point back full circle, don't you see the problem with college now? That the entire economy is basically requiring that you get a piece of paper that's essentially pointless**? Why not push vocational schools which are essentially apprenticeships? Why don't employers view that as a positive? Laziness? Don't want to check into your job candidate, better to weed them out based on where they got a degree? I don't know, but that's where we're at. More "educated" but inexperienced people looking for jobs. **and yes, you obviously learn skills and other useful information in college. But a lot of that can be learned through internships/early jobs. But the problem is if you go that route you're limiting your future earning potential in 95% of cases. I completely agree, and I think simplest solution would be to slap employers and make them realize that a College degree isnt the end all be all. The problem is that College degree, Law degree and the Bar are great barriers of entry and prevent competition. If only people with Law degrees who pass the Bar can get my job, then I have a lot better job security than if you could just hire someone off the street. So until people stop being greedy bastards who are worried about #1, its unlikely that the system will ever change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 01:19 PM) Then if its such a smart decision, those who went to College shouldnt complain. I obviously made a conscious effort to get a College degree, so it stands to reason I believed that it was worth it. But if any of my friends started b****ing about going to College, Id really have little pity for them. You seemed to be arguing earlier that the entire college "experience" is where the true value lies...if that is the case, why does it really matter what major you chose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:19 PM) No, Im asking them to at least go in a flexible major and have a GENERAL idea of what they want to do. I don't expect anyone to map out their career at the age of 18, college is a time to find out about yourself and your interests. By that I mean, major in English instead of Journalism, so you can teach, be an editor, etc compared to just be a journalist. If you get a history degree, know why you want one. Is it to improve writing and research skills? Is it because you want to teach? If you just have a passion for something, maybe it's best to have it as a second major or as a minor. You just have to realize not everyone is in it for the money. I would take very little money to do something that I have a passion for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:22 PM) You seemed to be arguing earlier that the entire college "experience" is where the true value lies...if that is the case, why does it really matter what major you chose? Well it doesnt matter to me what degree you chose. It does matter to other people though, so if you take that into consideration, it may matter what major you decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 01:24 PM) Well it doesnt matter to me what degree you chose. It does matter to other people though, so if you take that into consideration, it may matter what major you decide. I dunno that it matters as much as people think. Obviously some jobs require specialized learning more than others, but the vast majority do not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:23 PM) You just have to realize not everyone is in it for the money. I would take very little money to do something that I have a passion for. Oh I get that, I'm all for finding something you at least like to do (though I have found more often that people that turn hobbies/passions into a career end up liking that hobby/passion less because now it's work). I just don't think one should go get a $200k degree for a $35k/yr job when they can get the same education for half that price. I know some families can afford that, but many can't and yet students are still doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 It doesnt matter to me. I dont even look at College degree on resumes, so for all I know they could have put down clown college. I just care what school they went to, if its Madison then obviously they are getting hired. Anywhere else, who cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:25 PM) I dunno that it matters as much as people think. Obviously some jobs require specialized learning more than others, but the vast majority do not. I have seen plenty of history/poli sci/psychology majors in business, but they had to go the extra mile to prove they knew enough about business to get those jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:26 PM) I just don't think one should go get a $200k degree for a $35k/yr job when they can get the same education for half that price. I know some families can afford that, but many can't and yet students are still doing it. Well this one depends. I mean if you can go to Harvard, you go to Harvard. If you are talking about going to Wash U instead of instate U of I, unless your family is loaded your probably better off instate U of I. These werent questions I ever had concerns with, I refused to go to any school that didnt have a DI football team. I had priorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I went to college for p****, booze and drugs, not to challenge myself. Honestly didnt care what classes I took. business degrees are just the first step towards an MBA. Most of us are doing things in life that are totally unrelated to our degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:27 PM) It doesnt matter to me. I dont even look at College degree on resumes, so for all I know they could have put down clown college. I just care what school they went to, if its Madison then obviously they know where to get the good dank ass weed. fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:49 PM) I went to college for p****, booze and drugs, not to challenge myself. Honestly didnt care what classes I took. business degrees are just the first step towards an MBA. Most of us are doing things in life that are totally unrelated to our degrees. All I know is every time I see your damn avatar I wish I had gone to school closest to wherever the hell Kate Upton used to hang out... Edited June 13, 2012 by iamshack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:52 PM) All I know is every time I see your damn avatar I wish I had gone to school closest to wherever the hell Kate Upton used to hang out... That would be Western Michigan, you could have been a MAC product!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Just wondering if you added up all the people in the workforce with college degrees and all the people without. Who is reporting to who? Are there more college degrees reporting to non college or more non college reporting to college degrees? When you enter the workforce what do you bring? There are certainly a lot more things than education. But education is the gate keeper to many positions, not just entry level. To be a pharmaceutical sales rep for most companies you have to have a B.S. degree. That degree didn't teach you to be a sales rep. But the companies have found that people with those degrees work out better more often than people without. Of course there are some people that could kick ass at that job without a degree. But when you are hiring lots of people you need some quick filters to weed out the thousands of applicants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 the weird thing is, the one class that probably helped me most in college was speech. Excellent public speaking skills have served me well. but anyways, a business degree is fine. it's a practical degree, nothing wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 01:56 PM) At U of I, you go into Accounting, Finance, or Business Administration (International, Marketing, IS/IT, SCM, BPM, etc). The University of Illinois has an excellent engineering department too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 This is one f***ed up thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 QUOTE (mr_genius @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 07:51 PM) The University of Illinois has an excellent engineering department too I hear that advertising is one of the best in the country also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 01:32 PM) See, this is where I agree with Badger. This is the kids' problem...students go and get these majors and then they come out and expect to go stand in the line where the other Poli Sci majors are at and wait for their job to be handed to them. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 12:31 PM) I know it doesn't apply to all careers, but at least in the field I'm in, I firmly believe there's a huge advantage to a "classical" education, in terms of actually starting to understand how to think and react to opinions, arguments, data, etc. These two both somewhat speak to my line of thinking on a typical liberal arts major (history, poli sci, english, etc.) -- by all means go get one if that's your pleasure, but either A)Do it as a second major, and have your first major be something that will actually help you land a job out of undergrad (engineering or business, most likely) or B)Have it as your primary major if you can make damn sure that you want to be an academic, and this is just the first stop on the trail to your Ph.D; however, you should only take option B if you honestly know you have the intelligence and work ethic to do it (and I mean more than above average intelligence for say a Big Ten student; you should be a top student), and know that there's a possibility that even if you could successfully completely your Ph.D and become a professor down the line, there may be a point where that's not what you want anymore and you'd be screwed. It's a little different for hard science majors, since they can either go into academia OR industry. Balta can obviously speak way more to this, but I'm guessing that he got a BS in Geology (maybe Physics, too? Not sure what else you would have majored in at IU, except Math or [bio]Chemistry), and then decided to go to grad school. Balta, is it common for people in the hard sciences (excluding engineering) to go into industry after undergrad, or do they need a masters/Ph.D? QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 02:50 PM) fixed I'm betting you can find "good dank ass weed" in any college town. Plus, shouldn't you be extolling Oxford's finest greenery instead of Madison?! QUOTE (kapkomet @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 08:02 PM) This is one f***ed up thread. Yes, yes it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 IMO, the degree is to get your foot in the door...to pass through the initial screening. You think once you do that anyone gives a s*** what your major was? Your work at a given company speaks for itself. If you learn what you should be in college (what helps you learn most efficiently, how to network, how to navigate people's bs and political agendas), you can move up in just about any profession through the work you do once in the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 QUOTE (mr_genius @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 07:51 PM) The University of Illinois has an excellent engineering department too Those were options for the College of Business, and yes our Engineering school is top notch along with several other programs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 QUOTE (farmteam @ Jun 13, 2012 -> 08:58 PM) T I'm betting you can find "good dank ass weed" in any college town. Plus, shouldn't you be extolling Oxford's finest greenery instead of Madison?! It was good because of our proximity to kentucky, but Madison's culture is much more hippie-ish which led to a wide selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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