The one good thing about letting everyone back into the race

[caulfield12]

Is that it should be making it painfully obvious to JR and KW that the team as presently constructed isn't going to be good enough to win the division.

 

Hudson has largely been a failure, and cost the White Sox again defensively in the 6th tonight. We can't afford "on the job" training and the painful lessons that come with it.

 

On the other hand, neither the Indians and even the Tigers (because of defense and pitching injuries) right now have the teams to run away and hide.

 

 

So fix 3B and add a starting pitcher largely by adding on salary and not sacrificing major league talent from the 25 man roster or you watch the White Sox be doomed to near irrelevancy and even lower attendance the next couple of seasons.

 

Management has a clear choice now.

 

They can't just wait for Morel and Danks. There's two gaping holes in the dike that have to be fixed, and that's operating under the assumption that Quintana will continue to be a consistent performer (there's very little chance he'll keep up his ERA of nearly 2) going forward.

 

They can't go "all in" and trade for likes of Greinke by sacrificing Viciedo, Nathan Jones and Mitchell.

 

They can decide to do what's in their power to fix the two broken parts of this team or end up falling back in the pack by the end of July.

 

The other reason they have to add a pitcher is 1) to protect Chris Sale in August/September and 2) the odds right now are against Floyd returning, so you need at least one more experienced starter or you go into 2012 with Sale, Danks (if healthy), Quintana, Axelrod and Castro/Molina as your rotation. That simply can't happen if you want to compete, to break in essentially 3 rookie pitchers.

Edited June 16, 2012 by caulfield12

[Baron]

Well said

[greg775]

The Royals are four back in the loss column.

Will they ultimately pass the Sox? 15 games remaining vs. KC I think.

[Baron]

The Royals are four back in the loss column.

Will they ultimately pass the Sox? 15 games remaining vs. KC I think.

 

KC has won 4 in a row havent they?

[southsideirish71]

The Royals are four back in the loss column.

Will they ultimately pass the Sox? 15 games remaining vs. KC I think.

 

 

No one cares about the royals.

[caulfield12]

The Royals are four back in the loss column.

Will they ultimately pass the Sox? 15 games remaining vs. KC I think.

 

 

Any team in this division, except perhaps the Twins, could finish in 1st. Any of the other teams could finish in 1st or 5th.

 

If Liriano got superhot, they could even make a run at it, although I just don't see it all coming together for them...stranger things have happened, which much less time left remaining in the season.

 

However, most would be shocked if the Tigers, no matter what happens with their rotation, Valverde and defense, finish lower than 3rd.

 

They just have too much offensive talent with Jackson, Fielder, Cabrera, Avila and possibly Victor Martinez.

Edited June 16, 2012 by caulfield12

[Cali]

Or it gives KW an excuse to say "Hey this team as constructed also won 9 in a row. They can turn it around again"

 

aka the "we don't have the prospects/$$$ to get anything done to improve the team" excuse...

[iamshack]

As if Kenny needs any extra motivation to try and improve the roster...

 

This is all very depressing, but it is a marathon, not a sprint.

 

The baseball season is all about trying to keep everything in perspective...

[Quin]

No one cares about the royals.

 

Do they have an interesting manager?

[Dick Allen]

The Sox lost facing Kershaw. This season is ova. I see Mitt's(caulfied) pendulum is starting to swing the other way again. "Let" other teams back in the "race". That's rich. Like 4 or 5 out with 100 to play is out of it in the AL Central. The Sox are flawed. KW would probably even admit that. So is every other team in the division. If they pitch, they win. Anyone who really thinks KW would consider trading Viciedo for a 3 month rental has not been paying attention.

[Quin]

The Sox lost facing Kershaw. This season is ova. I see Mitt's(caulfied) pendulum is starting to swing the other way again. "Let" other teams back in the "race". That's rich. Like 4 or 5 out with 100 to play is out of it in the AL Central. The Sox are flawed. KW would probably even admit that. So is every other team in the division. If they pitch, they win. Anyone who really thinks KW would consider trading Viciedo for a 3 month rental has not been paying attention.

 

Caulfield has thought Viciedo would be traded since the Manny days, no shock there.

 

[justBLAZE]

The Sox lost facing Kershaw. This season is ova. I see Mitt's(caulfied) pendulum is starting to swing the other way again. "Let" other teams back in the "race". That's rich. Like 4 or 5 out with 100 to play is out of it in the AL Central. The Sox are flawed. KW would probably even admit that. So is every other team in the division. If they pitch, they win. Anyone who really thinks KW would consider trading Viciedo for a 3 month rental has not been paying attention.

 

I've been finding myself to agree with you more and more as days go by and it scares me.

[jasonxctf]

And who honestly thought the sox would be in first place right now?

[caulfield12]

Caulfield has thought Viciedo would be traded since the Manny days, no shock there.

 

 

Nope, you'll not find one single post here with me advising that Viciedo should be traded.

 

You must be confusing me with Marty34.

 

Why would a washed-up Manny Ramirez have anything to do with Viciedo? In 2010, I wanted Viciedo to play everyday, and I wanted him to be playing in May/June last year over Pierre.

Edited June 16, 2012 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

The Sox lost facing Kershaw. This season is ova. I see Mitt's(caulfied) pendulum is starting to swing the other way again. "Let" other teams back in the "race". That's rich. Like 4 or 5 out with 100 to play is out of it in the AL Central. The Sox are flawed. KW would probably even admit that. So is every other team in the division. If they pitch, they win. Anyone who really thinks KW would consider trading Viciedo for a 3 month rental has not been paying attention.

 

 

Every team in the AL Central is legitimately back in the race now.

 

In 2003, the Royals were 6 1/2 and 7 games ahead of the White Sox and Twins, and that was at the All-Star break.

 

 

They let everyone back in because the ONE thing the White Sox did better than any other team was win on the road in interleague play.

 

Before the Cardinals series started, we were 23-7 in our last 30 road interleague games. 1-3 and 5-5 overall in interleague isn't going to get it done, and the next 8 games all present tough pitching match-ups for the Sox. This year, the only logical way the Sox can win the AL Central is to beat the Royals and Twins consistently.

 

 

 

As far as KW learning something, I'll believe it when I see another starting pitcher and 3B added without sacrificing our future ability to compete the way the Hudson/Holmberg for Edwin Jackson trade did. Only the miraculous find of Quintana has kept this team in first for now, but not PHT.

 

For the record, I do think it's inappropriate to constantly bring Mitt Romney into every single post or response you make to me. If you want to debate politics, there's a place for it. I think you have an obsession with Mitt Romney, for some reason.

 

 

People want leadership, Mr President. And in the absence of genuine leadership, they'll listen to anyone who steps up to the microphone. They want leadership. They are so thirsty for it, they'll crawl through a desert toward a mirage and when they discover there's no water, they'll drink the sand.

 

President: People drink the sand not because they are thirsty. People drink the sand because they don't know the difference.

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2012 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Every team in the AL Central is legitimately back in the race now.

 

In 2003, the Royals were 6 1/2 and 7 games ahead of the White Sox and Twins, and that was at the All-Star break.

 

 

They let everyone back in because the ONE thing the White Sox did better than any other team was win on the road in interleague play.

 

Before the Cardinals series started, we were 23-7 in our last 30 road interleague games. 1-3 and 5-5 overall in interleague isn't going to get it done, and the next 8 games all present tough pitching match-ups for the Sox. This year, the only logical way the Sox can win the AL Central is to beat the Royals and Twins consistently.

The point is they were never out of the race. To thing the Sox are going to continue a nearly .800 pace during interleague play is insane. The only way the White Sox will win the divison is by beating their rivals in the AL Central. That is really nothing new. It was just last week you proclaimed 4 or 5 games out of first is nowhere near first place. Now you have changed. Who would have figured? Maybe Dan McNeil was right.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

The point is they were never out of the race. To thing the Sox are going to continue a nearly .800 pace during interleague play is insane. The only way the White Sox will win the divison is by beating their rivals in the AL Central. That is really nothing new. It was just last week you proclaimed 4 or 5 games out of first is nowhere near first place. Now you have changed. Who would have figured? Maybe Dan McNeil was right.

 

 

Dan McNeil was right if he said we needed a legitimate upgrade at 3B and another starting pitcher to compete.

 

And two of the biggest trading chips we could have used this entire offseason, Gavin Floyd and Matt Thornton, are both at their lowest values ever in a Sox uniform.

 

Your move, KW and JR. Stand still, you get passed.

 

 

[Dick Allen]

Dan McNeil was right if he said we needed a legitimate upgrade at 3B and another starting pitcher to compete.

 

And two of the biggest trading chips we could have used this entire offseason, Gavin Floyd and Matt Thornton, are both at their lowest values ever in a Sox uniform.

 

Your move, KW and JR. Stand still, you get passed.

The Sox need an upgrade at 3B? That's an astute observation.

 

I'm Gavin Floyd's biggest critic, but what kind of logic are you using when you say the Sox needed a starting pitcher, and then ripping them for not trading a starting pitcher?

 

I'm also, except for Marty, KWs biggest critic , and I'm sure he listened on offers for Floyd and Thornton. Considering what was received for Santos and Quentin, I'm sure those offers weren't nearly what you think they would be.

 

The problem is, this is nothing new for Floyd. His ERA is normally about where it is right now this time of year. He'll get hot for 6 weeks, all will be forgiven. Extensions will be discussed on this board. Then he'll be mediocre again and it will be the offseason. Other GMs who would actually have to pay Gavin notice this as well.

 

Keep in mind, KW could land Verlander and David Wright today. This still wouldn't be the Sox last 3 game losing streak of the season. And here's the column you were ripping not even a week ago:

 

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...,6968593.column

Edited June 16, 2012 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

The Sox need an upgrade at 3B? That's an astute observation.

 

I'm Gavin Floyd's biggest critic, but what kind of logic are you using when you say the Sox needed a starting pitcher, and then ripping them for not trading a starting pitcher?

 

I'm also, except for Marty, KWs biggest critic , and I'm sure he listened on offers for Floyd and Thornton. Considering what was received for Santos and Quentin, I'm sure those offers weren't nearly what you think they would be.

 

The problem is, this is nothing new for Floyd. His ERA is normally about where it is right now this time of year. He'll get hot for 6 weeks, all will be forgiven. Extensions will be discussed on this board. Then he'll be mediocre again and it will be the offseason. Other GMs who would actually have to pay Gavin notice this as well.

 

Keep in mind, KW could land Verlander and David Wright today. This still wouldn't be the Sox last 3 game losing streak of the season. And here's the column you were ripping not even a week ago:

 

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...,6968593.column

 

 

Considering that a 30+ save, close to 85% conversion rate, cost-controlled closer nets you only Nestor Molina, call me unimpressed. Maybe you're right, it's better off if we don't let Marco Paddy or KW have anything to do with any more trades.

 

Why would they give Gavin Floyd an extension if they have a $9.5 million club option for 2013 already? They're now going to turn around and sign him to an extension for $21-27 million over 3 years? That's like signing Mark Teahen to an extension when they already controlled his rights anyway.

 

The point is even if KW made the worst possible trades in the history of baseball for Floyd and Thornton, their salaries would be off the books, our record would arguably be the same or better and we'd have another $12-15 million to use now that we know we definitely need another starter to compete this season.

Edited June 16, 2012 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Considering that a 30+ save, close to 85% conversion rate, cost-controlled closer nets you only Nestor Molina, call me unimpressed. Maybe you're right, it's better off if we don't let Marco Paddy or KW have anything to do with any more trades.

 

Why would they give Gavin Floyd an extension if they have a $9.5 million club option for 2013 already? They're now going to turn around and sign him to an extension for $21-27 million over 3 years? That's like signing Mark Teahen to an extension when they already controlled his rights anyway.

 

The point is even if KW made the worst possible trades in the history of baseball for Floyd and Thornton, their salaries would be off the books, our record would arguably be the same or better and we'd have another $12-15 million to use now that we know we definitely need another starter to compete this season.

Hindsight is always very accurate. We could have said why did Ventura start Sale last night, it would have been a good time to skip his spot in the rotation. It will be interesting to see your comments once Floyd gets hot, which happens just about every season.

 

I'd imagine the reality is Thornton and Floyd have about the same trade value now as they did in December. And I didn't say sign him to an extension, I said when he gets hot for 6 weeks, like he always does, there will be posts wanting to lock this guy up for the foreseeable future, and it wouldn't surprise me if one or a hundred of those future posts were by you.

[Kyyle23]

Dan McNeil was right if he said we needed a legitimate upgrade at 3B and another starting pitcher to compete.

 

And two of the biggest trading chips we could have used this entire offseason, Gavin Floyd and Matt Thornton, are both at their lowest values ever in a Sox uniform.

 

Your move, KW and JR. Stand still, you get passed.

 

Flip. Flop. Flip. Flop.

[Chicago White Sox]

The Sox lost facing Kershaw. This season is ova. I see Mitt's(caulfied) pendulum is starting to swing the other way again. "Let" other teams back in the "race". That's rich. Like 4 or 5 out with 100 to play is out of it in the AL Central. The Sox are flawed. KW would probably even admit that. So is every other team in the division. If they pitch, they win. Anyone who really thinks KW would consider trading Viciedo for a 3 month rental has not been paying attention.

Don't worry, as soon as the Sox win like 4 or 5 in a row, caulfield will start a thread saying the time is now and the Sox are the clear favorites to win the division. I've never seen a more bi-polar poster in my entire life.

 

It was a tough loss, but we are still in first place. How many people thought we'd be in first place on June 16th, with almost nothing from Floyd, Humber, & 3B and Danks on the DL for an extended period of time? Things could be much f***ing worse than first place.

 

Also, if anyone is seriously concerned about the Royals, then I've lost all respect for them as a poster. I don't give a f*** about their 4 game winning streak, there is practically no chance of them finishing third or better.

[southsider2k5]

Any team in this division, except perhaps the Twins, could finish in 1st. Any of the other teams could finish in 1st or 5th.

 

If Liriano got superhot, they could even make a run at it, although I just don't see it all coming together for them...stranger things have happened, which much less time left remaining in the season.

 

However, most would be shocked if the Tigers, no matter what happens with their rotation, Valverde and defense, finish lower than 3rd.

 

They just have too much offensive talent with Jackson, Fielder, Cabrera, Avila and possibly Victor Martinez.

 

At this point, I hung up.

[elrockinMT]

Dan McNeil was right if he said we needed a legitimate upgrade at 3B and another starting pitcher to compete.

 

And two of the biggest trading chips we could have used this entire offseason, Gavin Floyd and Matt Thornton, are both at their lowest values ever in a Sox uniform.

 

Your move, KW and JR. Stand still, you get passed.

 

 

An old saying goes that I could agree with you but then we would both be wrong. I admire your fire in wanting the Sox to win, but I really think you live off too much emotion from game to game.

[Quin]

Nope, you'll not find one single post here with me advising that Viciedo should be traded.

 

You must be confusing me with Marty34.

 

Why would a washed-up Manny Ramirez have anything to do with Viciedo? In 2010, I wanted Viciedo to play everyday, and I wanted him to be playing in May/June last year over Pierre.

 

No, I didn't say advising, I said think.

 

Since 2010 you've been saying "It's only a matter of time before Kenny trades Viciedo for some rental" and it started with the Manny rumors. You seem to think that because of previous deals, Kenny will trade every good up and comer we ever have in the history of forever.