Balta1701 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 10:15 AM) Maybe, but I doubt Hudson can be nearly as good at making the play on the bunt or the slow dribbler down the line where he has to throw towards 1B across his body with all of his moment going away from the field as he comes in to field it. That's the toughest play for a 3B. If Orlando Hudson can't make the toughest plays, that's still ok. He might make one every now and again by luck, and finding a really great defensive 3b who can make the toughest plays reliably won't be cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 09:17 AM) If Orlando Hudson can't make the toughest plays, that's still ok. He might make one every now and again by luck, and finding a really great defensive 3b who can make the toughest plays reliably won't be cheap. What I like about Hudson is the fact that he's kind of a second lead off guy. Speed, bunting prowess, singles hitter with some pop. Of course, I'd like to see more of that....... His defense has been pretty good for a lifetime middle infielder. Considering the fact that Morel was expected to be back by now or very soon, Hudson wasn't supposed to be there that long. But, he's made some excellent reaction plays, it's the other easier plays he's had a rougher time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Except he last had the speed to justify some of that overaggressiveness about 4-5 years ago when he was closer to his prime. If he wants to be considered another leadoff guy, he should at least post an OBP of 300+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I think I'm at the point where I'd be willing to try something different at 3B. ODog is not the answer, Morel won't be back for a while, and I don't believe Escobar or Lillibridge are legitimate options. f*** it, I think I might give Dan Johnson a shot at this point if I was KW. We are coming to a crossroads soon, and I have concerns about our ability to remain competive if we continue getting no offensive production out of 3B. Giving Dan Johnson the job is the ultimate last resort decision, but he'd get some walks and hit some HRs, which I'd hope would compensate for the defensive downgrade he presents. I guess I don't see the harm at this point. If he sucks, which is very possible, give the job back to ODog or hopefully Morel eventually. I just think we need to try something, because things can't get much worse at 3B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mataipaepae Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 09:13 AM) I think I'm at the point where I'd be willing to try something different at 3B. ODog is not the answer, Morel won't be back for a while, and I don't believe Escobar or Lillibridge are legitimate options. f*** it, I think I might give Dan Johnson a shot at this point if I was KW. We are coming to a crossroads soon, and I have concerns about our ability to remain competive if we continue getting no offensive production out of 3B. Giving Dan Johnson the job is the ultimate last resort decision, but he'd get some walks and hit some HRs, which I'd hope would compensate for the defensive downgrade he presents. I guess I don't see the harm at this point. If he sucks, which is very possible, give the job back to ODog or hopefully Morel eventually. I just think we need to try something, because things can't get much worse at 3B. If that Is the case why not try wilkins at third. I wonder if we could convert the kid we just drafted in the first round to play 3rd? He is big, athletic, and had a plus arm. Wr are loaded with outfield talent. He might grow even more into a corner infielder. Edited June 19, 2012 by mataipaepae Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 09:29 AM) Except he last had the speed to justify some of that overaggressiveness about 4-5 years ago when he was closer to his prime. If he wants to be considered another leadoff guy, he should at least post an OBP of 300+. He's no Michael Bourn, but he still has above average speed. And I totally get it...if he were hitting even .250 with a .330-.350 OBP, I'd be thrilled. But he is adjusting to a new league and a new position. And he was only supposed to be a stopgap. If you can get Chase Headley cheap. And by cheap, I mean, REALLY cheap, that's who I'd want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (mataipaepae @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 11:48 PM) If that Is the case why not try wilkins at third. I wonder if we could convert the kid we just drafted in the first round to play 3rd? He is big, athletic, and had a plus arm. Wr are loaded with outfield talent. He might grow even more into a corner infielder. Because he's 3-4 years away from being ready for the majors. Because KW should remember himself what dramatic position changes did to his playing career. Because of the Viciedo fiasco at 3B. Loaded with OF talent? Not in 2015, and Hawkins still might not be ready yet for the major league roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Dan Johnson can't play 3B very well and hasn't hit at the major league level in 5 years. He's probably a worse choice than McPherson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 All things considered, Tyler Kuhn might be the next best choice...and the organization felt the same about him as Doyle, essentially. But I would pick him over McPherson or Johnson because he makes contact and won't kill you defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 10:59 AM) Dan Johnson can't play 3B very well and hasn't hit at the major league level in 5 years. He's probably a worse choice than McPherson. McPherson can't stay healthy and has sucked this year, so he's not even a choice. I completely understand what Dan Johnson has been at the major league level, but desperate times call for desperate measures. Dan Johnson is currently 1st in OBP and 2nd in HRs in the International Leauge. His batting average won't translate to the pros, but he should be able to walk and hit HRs at a more than reasonable pace. Offensively, he'd be a tremendous upgrade, simply because we've gotten nothing from 3B. The real issue is obviously defense and I have no clue how he is at 3B. If he's even remotely passable, I think he'd be an overall upgrade to Hudson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Don't know if or how much this has been discussed but why not give Lilibridge a crack at 3rd, at the very least against left handers ? He really did great things last year and with a hole as big as 3rd he deserves a shot. He has power he has speed and he's rotting away on the bench. He can't be worse fielding than Hudson has been who, at best, has been inconsistent, making some very good plays but making awful ones too. Hudson is a small step away from being out of baseball and Escobar has plenty of options to develop in the minors where he should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 01:55 PM) Don't know if or how much this has been discussed but why not give Lilibridge a crack at 3rd, at the very least against left handers ? He really did great things last year and with a hole as big as 3rd he deserves a shot. He has power he has speed and he's rotting away on the bench. He can't be worse fielding than Hudson has been who, at best, has been inconsistent, making some very good plays but making awful ones too. Hudson is a small step away from being out of baseball and Escobar has plenty of options to develop in the minors where he should be. I don't think this group thinks as much of Lilli as the previous one did. It appears he is already behind Danks in terms of playing time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 12:06 PM) I don't think this group thinks as much of Lilli as the previous one did. It appears he is already behind Danks in terms of playing time. If he can't get playing time this year after what he did last year he never will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 08:08 PM) Eddie Gaedel. Bill Veeck trick, with the CLE Indians. St Louis Browns, iirc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Obvious fix for 3B... Gordon Beckham 2B might be easier to find at this point (Aaron Hill, maybe?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 You don't move a Gold Glove caliber 2B unless you're replacing him with a comparable player, because then you're creating a hole somewhere else on the infield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightni Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 09:01 PM) You don't move a Gold Glove caliber 2B unless you're replacing him with a comparable player, because then you're creating a hole somewhere else on the infield. Well, there ARE no decent 3B out there available without severely overpaying. This is a way to get around that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Unfortunately, Gordon isn't out of the woods as being a surefire MLB hitter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 08:53 PM) Unfortunately, Gordon isn't out of the woods as being a surefire MLB hitter That would be incredibly short-sighted anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Here's a thought...would we be better off with Flowers starting behind the plate or Hudson at 3rd? I think AJ could be a good trade piece. The Pirates have Alvarez and Casey Mcgee (who's been real good lately) over at 3rd, and the .222 hitting Rod Berajas behind the plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 11:49 AM) Here's a thought...would we be better off with Flowers starting behind the plate or Hudson at 3rd? I think AJ could be a good trade piece. The Pirates have Alvarez and Casey Mcgee (who's been real good lately) over at 3rd, and the .222 hitting Rod Berajas behind the plate. Casey Michael McGehee has about a 700 OPS in the worst division in baseball, other than our own. That's fine, in and of itself, except that he's almost exclusively played 1B this year. Last season, he had a .942 fielding percentage at 3B. I just think you trade away AJ and make Flowers the full-time catcher, you're sending a message to his teammates that you're surrendering in a way. Flowers hits the ball hard, when he hits it, but that's not nearly often enough. His defense has been good, but that's not a clear enough upgrade to make that move from my standpoint. Maybe at some point KW will think he does need to completely shake up the team and trade away one of the veterans. In that sense, AJ would make perfect sense. But it could just as easily backfire completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 10:58 PM) Casey Michael McGehee has about a 700 OPS in the worst division in baseball, other than our own. That's fine, in and of itself, except that he's almost exclusively played 1B this year. Last season, he had a .942 fielding percentage at 3B. I just think you trade away AJ and make Flowers the full-time catcher, you're sending a message to his teammates that you're surrendering in a way. Flowers hits the ball hard, when he hits it, but that's not nearly often enough. His defense has been good, but that's not a clear enough upgrade to make that move from my standpoint. Maybe at some point KW will think he does need to completely shake up the team and trade away one of the veterans. In that sense, AJ would make perfect sense. But it could just as easily backfire completely. I think there was a time that Flowers was ready to be a competent, low end starting catcher. I don't think that time is now. I also think he's gotten fat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Geez, Mark Teahan would have been an upgrade over Hudson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 QUOTE (oldsox @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 08:11 AM) Geez, Mark Teahan would have been an upgrade over Hudson. Sad, but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Plus, Josh Fields is hitting .330 or so at Albuquerque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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