GT: Chicago White Sox @ LA Dodgers

[caulfield12]

The only argument against leaving Quintana in there is simply the fact that he's less than a year removed from foundering in A Tampa.

 

That said, you have to go by the evidence of his performance ever since he's been with the big league team...which is indisputable.

 

0.063 BAA against in day games.

 

Matt Thornton doesn't pitch 1/3rd as well against LHBer's in his prime.

 

I just don't understand why they didn't leave him in to TRY. That would have taught him more than being pulled did. We all get the fact that he gives up a baserunner and he's probably getting lifted, that's fine. But the pitch selection and execution was just horrible in the 9th and the 10th.

 

If we want to compete for the division title, we can't leave 2 games out there like that. Now the Tigers are only 3 games back when we should be back to 8 games over and with a much more comfortable 5 game margin, and 3 1/2 over the Indians.

 

We can't seem to get out of our own way in close games or extra inning games.

 

First time the Dodgers have taken a series in interleague play against the Sox.

 

 

[Marty34]

That doesn't make it any less of the wrong move.

 

Judging by this thread it was a simple decision. It was anything but that.

[flavum]

5:30--didn't want to see what Robin was going to do with the 9th. Knew it should be Quintana finishing this game. Watched golf for hour and half.

 

6:55--checked score.

 

7:00--posted this pissed.

 

When a pitcher is in the zone, you let him finish.

 

On the other hand, the Dodgers did get screwed earlier in the game. That Mattingly ejection was an all-timer.

Edited June 18, 2012 by flavum

[caulfield12]

We're going to end up going through five closers in one season.

 

Santiago, Thornton, Sale, Reed and eventually Nathan Jones. Reeds' stuff just hasn't been as crisp, for whatever reason.

 

He's not going to get away with throwing 93-95 MPH up in the zone three times consecutively against any big league hitter.

 

 

[iamshack]

Judging by this thread it was a simple decision. It was anything but that.

It was simple. If a guy is averaging less than 10 pitches an inning and is throwing a shutout, you allow him to continue pitching. I don't care if he is 23, 45, 17, whatever.

[He_Gawn]

Remains to be seen if the guy is a stud. The closer has to shut it down. The bigger issue is Reed's stuff hasn't been as dominant as what we saw at the end of last year.

 

Today, Quintana was a stud... He threw 77 pitches and didn't give up a run. You don't take him out. As Hawk would say, "You don't know s*** about baseball".

[caulfield12]

Bad, bad weekends:

 

Tiger Woods

Robin Ventura

Sox relievers

The umpires

Adam Sandler's production company

movies with Julianne Hough or Tom Cruise singing

[greg775]

We're going to end up going through five closers in one season.

 

Santiago, Thornton, Sale, Reed and eventually Nathan Jones. Reeds' stuff just hasn't been as crisp, for whatever reason.

 

He's not going to get away with throwing 93-95 MPH up in the zone three times consecutively against any big league hitter.

 

Cause, it's hard to be an automatic closer.

That's why I puked when people ripped Bobby so badly at the end, forgetting for a long time that he was automatic.

Reed is good, don't get me wrong, but as I said earlier, give him a full season and he'll blow 5 to 10 saves, which would have gotten Bobby crucified on here.

Reed had a stretch where he was automatic. Hopefully he'll save many more than he blows.

Edited June 18, 2012 by greg775

[caulfield12]

Today, Quintana was a stud... He threw 77 pitches and didn't give up a run. You don't take him out. As Hawk would say, "You don't know s*** about baseball".

 

 

It has gotten to the point where EVERY big league manager hides behind the "that's what we have a closer for."

 

It's far too specialized now.

 

Go with your gut and instincts, that's why you were hired as a first-time manager with zero experience. To not just go by the book in those situations.

 

If you go with your best reliever, Nathan Jones, on Friday night in the 6th...and leave Quintana in Sunday, you're sitting in a much different position.

 

Jones did have ONE recent hiccup, but, all things considered, he's been the most dominant reliever on our staff since Opening Day.

 

Maybe his using Crain there in the 6th is a sign that Jones has passed him in Ventura's mind...but it sucks we had to lose two games this series due to "on the job training" for Ventura.

 

In all fairness, nobody expected the White Sox to be in first place at this point in the season and there was reason to believe these games might be like every game played by the Cubs since the middle of May.

Edited June 18, 2012 by caulfield12

[greg775]

I think many posters are especially mad about losing yet another series because we are basically conceding Monday's game by going with Zach.

We're creeping back to .500 land which is prolly where we belong despite career-type years from AJ, Paulie, Dunn and Peavy and of course Rios. Hate to not finish first in a season Rios excels like this.

Edited June 18, 2012 by greg775

[flavum]

I'm glad I missed the Ranger postgame.

 

Let me take a guess...he took Robin's side. Just a wild guess, there.

[caulfield12]

Cause, it's hard to be an automatic closer.

That's why I puked when people ripped Bobby so badly at the end, forgetting for a long time that he was automatic.

Reed is good, don't get me wrong, but as I said earlier, give him a full season and he'll blow 5 to 10 saves, which would have gotten Bobby crucified on here.

Reed had a stretch where he was automatic. Hopefully he'll save many more than he blows.

 

 

The last time Jenks was "very good" was in 2008, and even then, it's "what you do when it really counts?" He wasn't dependable at all against the Twins.

 

In 2009 and 2010, he gave up more hits than innings pitched. His overall save conversion rate was a touch below 85%, which is the standard, but it was definitely time to part ways with him after 2010.

 

If he and Thornton would have pitched better down the stretch in 2010, we would have had a legit shot at the Twins (and Manny Ramirez not looking more like Jason Dellaero).

 

Reed is now 8/9, which is 89% He's been "okay" but far from great. More alarmingly, his stuff out of the pen has been surpassed by Nathan Jones, who's featuring two better pitches than Addison has going right now.

 

 

[The Ginger Kid]

Trainor should have been called safe. The run in the 9th should've been the loss.

[caulfield12]

I think many posters are especially mad about losing yet another series because we are basically conceding Monday's game by going with Zach.

We're creeping back to .500 land which is prolly where we belong despite career-type years from AJ, Paulie, Dunn and Peavy and of course Rios. Hate to not finish first in a season Rios excels like this.

 

 

Why would Rios playing up to his contract mean we should finish in 1st?

 

That's like Tigers fans being upset ANY season they don't make the playoffs with Verlander, Fielder and Cabrera on the same roster.

 

 

In the end, if Sale can't pitch beyond 160 innings and Danks is going to be on the shelf for a long period of time, there wasn't really a chance to hang with the Tigers anyway down the stretch. They just have too much firepower, and all the money in the world to go out and make additions to fix their problems (2B, bullpen, SS, outfield corners)...they're a revenue generating machine these days.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Trainor should have been called safe. The run in the 9th should've been the loss.

 

 

Maybe it would have been better to have the tie game there, which probably would have forced Ventura to use our best reliever in Nathan Jones.

 

Although I think it would have been 3 games in a row for him...not sure you can risk that.

 

In the end, the only positive to come out of this series was Ventura's learning curve just shot upwards. Unfortunately, it cost us two games in the standings to the Tigers.

 

 

Is anyone convinced we're even going to draw more than 30,000 tmrw for the Zach Stewart game?

[Carlo Paz]

When I buy the Sox, I'm going to show this game to all prospective employees...even hot dog vendors. I'm going to ask each and every one of them to defend Robin's decision to pull the starter in that situation. Anybody who answers anything but "it would be completely stupid to pull the starter there" will not be hired.

If you liked the decision, well, you're entitled to your opinion, but you are not working for me.

[caulfield12]

When I buy the Sox, I'm going to show this game to all prospective employees...even hot dog vendors. I'm going to ask each and every one of them to defend Robin's decision to pull the starter in that situation. Anybody who answers anything but "it would be completely stupid to pull the starter there" will not be hired.

If you liked the decision, well, you're entitled to your opinion, but you are not working for me.

 

Ironic, but this was one of Ozzie's strengths, letting starters go as long as possible.

 

Except when they weren't experienced or veteran pitchers.

 

Of course, he never really had a rookie pitcher who did so well as Quintana is doing now...the ONLY exception is McCarthy down the stretch in 2005. Would have to look back at those boxes to see similar situations where Brandon was pulled for Jenks/Politte/Cotts down the stretch.

 

 

[chw42]

Those of you b****ing about pulling Quintana need to stop, seriously.

 

We're not dealing with 2010 Bobby Jenks as the closer, we're dealing with Addison f***ing Reed, the guy who had been perfect in save situations.

 

The Dodgers got a few lucky hits off him, it's not like he got pounded. s*** happens. There's no guarantee Quintana pitches a scoreless 9th.

[Ross]

Those of you b****ing about pulling Quintana need to stop, seriously.

 

We're not dealing with 2010 Bobby Jenks as the closer, we're dealing with Addison f***ing Reed, the guy who had been perfect in save situations.

 

The Dodgers got a few lucky hits off him, it's not like he got pounded. s*** happens. There's no guarantee Quintana pitches a scoreless 9th.

 

I somewhat agree.

 

I'm not sure if it was the right choice to pull Quintana, but it was far from a horrible decision. It isn't like Reed has blown save after save.

[flavum]

Those of you b****ing about pulling Quintana need to stop, seriously.

 

We're not dealing with 2010 Bobby Jenks as the closer, we're dealing with Addison f***ing Reed, the guy who had been perfect in save situations.

 

The Dodgers got a few lucky hits off him, it's not like he got pounded. s*** happens. There's no guarantee Quintana pitches a scoreless 9th.

 

Get off your high horse. It's baseball. People have the right to first-guess or second-guess a baseball move.

 

Me personally? I want to live or die with Quintana in that situation. It doesn't mean the Sox come away with a win there, but that's what I would have done.

[iamshack]

Those of you b****ing about pulling Quintana need to stop, seriously.

 

We're not dealing with 2010 Bobby Jenks as the closer, we're dealing with Addison f***ing Reed, the guy who had been perfect in save situations.

 

The Dodgers got a few lucky hits off him, it's not like he got pounded. s*** happens. There's no guarantee Quintana pitches a scoreless 9th.

In all 8 save chances? For a saber guy, it surprises me you would pull out the "perfect" adjective.

 

Tell me this...why not at least give the kid one batter?

[chw42]

In all 8 save chances? For a saber guy, it surprises me you would pull out the "perfect" adjective.

 

Tell me this...why not at least give the kid one batter?

 

He was perfect in save situations, many of which were one run leads. And he is an extremely good pitcher from a sabermetric perspective.

 

You'll have to ask Robin that, but there is no way that bringing in Reed was a bad decision. Call it what you want, but you can't get on Ventura for bringing in his best reliever and this is coming from a guy who has dogged him over bullpen usage the past few weeks.

 

 

[chw42]

Get off your high horse. It's baseball. People have the right to first-guess or second-guess a baseball move.

 

Me personally? I want to live or die with Quintana in that situation. It doesn't mean the Sox come away with a win there, but that's what I would have done.

 

You have the right to do it, but that doesn't mean the manager is to blame all the time when a move he makes goes wrong. There are moves that look like crap from the start and end up blowing up in your face. You can blame the manager all you want for those. This was not one of them.

 

Like I said, Addison Reed is a very capable closer, he's shown you that. He got a little unlucky today (especially on that hit and run with Herrera). It is what it is, you gotta move on.

[iamshack]

He was perfect in save situations, many of which were one run leads. And he is an extremely good pitcher from a sabermetric perspective.

 

You'll have to ask Robin that, but there is no way that bringing in Reed was a bad decision. Call it what you want, but you can't get on Ventura for bringing in his best reliever and this is coming from a guy who has dogged him over bullpen usage the past few weeks.

I really think you can...again, every time you bring in a new pitcher, doesn't matter HOW good he is, there is always a chance he doesn't have his great stuff that day. So when you have a guy that obviously DOES have his great stuff, and certainly isn't tired, you just don't pull him, barring some incredible advantage you can give yourself from a matchup perspective or something. That wasn't the case here. Quintana was cruising along. Jones has been pretty darn good this year as well...should we have brought him in to pitch the 8th?

[chw42]

I really think you can...again, every time you bring in a new pitcher, doesn't matter HOW good he is, there is always a chance he doesn't have his great stuff that day. So when you have a guy that obviously DOES have his great stuff, and certainly isn't tired, you just don't pull him, barring some incredible advantage you can give yourself from a matchup perspective or something. That wasn't the case here. Quintana was cruising along. Jones has been pretty darn good this year as well...should we have brought him in to pitch the 8th?

 

We're all literally playing the guessing game right now, which is a silly game to play when we're talking about using a pitcher in a game who had a 2.7 FIP coming into today.

 

I'll say it again, we're not dealing with broken down Bobby Jenks. We're dealing with one of the best young bullpen arms in all of baseball.