hogan873 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 08:11 AM) For the deal Danks got, and the deal Buehrle got, the Sox made the right move without hindsight. Absolutely. The Sox were not going to match or beat Miami's offer to Buehrle, and it would have been stupid to do so. I love Buehrle and would have loved to see him back with the Sox, but not for that price. Danks' deal looked good on paper. He is a similar pitcher to Buehrle and younger. The injury to Danks couldn't have been foreseen. Hopefully it's nothing terrible and he'll be back with the club soon. If he's out for an extended period of time, there's nothing that can be done about that. I'm not a big fan of looking back and saying "what if?". And reading through this thread makes me dislike it more. Too much sniping and personal attacks. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but you know the saying about opinions. Bottom line is, Buehrle is pitching in Miami for too much money and Danks is on the DL in Chicago, and his deal may end up looking bad, too. But how about that Qunitana kid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Who'd have thought that Brandon McCarthy would turn out to be a more valuable SP than Danks? I thought that trade was a heist at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 11:23 AM) Who'd have thought that Brandon McCarthy would turn out to be a more valuable SP than Danks? I thought that trade was a heist at the time. It will be interesting to see what kind of contract he ends up with on the FA market. He's definitely one of the top five FA's available, but you have a long list of injury problems and the "Oakland Effect" on pitchers which shouldn't be overlooked, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 03:25 AM) It will be interesting to see what kind of contract he ends up with on the FA market. He's definitely one of the top five FA's available, but you have a long list of injury problems and the "Oakland Effect" on pitchers which shouldn't be overlooked, either. Yeah, I'd never trust him to stay healthy, but he led the majors with a 5-to-1 K-to-BB ratio last season. He's still not striking out enough people, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 10:23 PM) Who'd have thought that Brandon McCarthy would turn out to be a more valuable SP than Danks? I thought that trade was a heist at the time. You mean McCarthy who has been over 100 IP exactly twice since leaving the White Sox? 80 total starts in five years and a .500 record? No thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 05:52 AM) You mean McCarthy who has been over 100 IP exactly twice since leaving the White Sox? 80 total starts in five years and a .500 record? No thanks. No way is he more valuable then Mr. Danks. And I'm not saying Danks is amazing, but assuming health, I think every team in baseball is taking Danks straight up over Bmac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 11:24 AM) No way is he more valuable then Mr. Danks. And I'm not saying Danks is amazing, but assuming health, I think every team in baseball is taking Danks straight up over Bmac. I don't think the rest of the league was high on Danks as much the Sox kingdom and his agent. Wasn't he expecting a big payday elsewhere only to sign with the Sox again while for a long time saying no to a Sox contract? Where's the magic in Don Cooper? He's worked with Floyd and Danks, Thornton for an extended time and there is nothing but regression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 02:07 AM) I don't think the rest of the league was high on Danks as much the Sox kingdom and his agent. Wasn't he expecting a big payday elsewhere only to sign with the Sox again while for a long time saying no to a Sox contract? Where's the magic in Don Cooper? He's worked with Floyd and Danks, Thornton for an extended time and there is nothing but regression. Quintana, Humber for 1/2+ season and the PERFECTO, Nathan Jones until the last week, Sergio Santos.... Peavy and Sale aren't pitching magically this season? Dank was hurt. Thornton was ruined by the closer experiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 12:52 PM) You mean McCarthy who has been over 100 IP exactly twice since leaving the White Sox? 80 total starts in five years and a .500 record? No thanks. I am talking about the here and now, not 2008 or 2009. He had a 5-to-1 K-to-BB ratio last year, and he's working on an ERA+ of 150 thus far in the 2012 season. I'd say that he's arrived. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 02:21 PM) I am talking about the here and now, not 2008 or 2009. He had a 5-to-1 K-to-BB ratio last year, and he's working on an ERA+ of 150 thus far in the 2012 season. I'd say that he's arrived. By that logic, BMac >>>>> Roy Halladay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 08:34 PM) By that logic, BMac >>>>> Roy Halladay Okay, so we should take pre-2011 stats into account when assessing how good of pitcher Brandon McCarthy is as of this moment. His Texas years are definitely relevant, as he hasn't made dramatic improvements since then. You're right, that makes total sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 02:21 PM) I am talking about the here and now, not 2008 or 2009. He had a 5-to-1 K-to-BB ratio last year, and he's working on an ERA+ of 150 thus far in the 2012 season. I'd say that he's arrived. So we were supposed to wait five years for the one year he has been better than Danks? Again, no thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 02:40 PM) Okay, so we should take pre-2011 stats into account when assessing how good of pitcher Brandon McCarthy is as of this moment. His Texas years are definitely relevant, as he hasn't made dramatic improvements since then. You're right, that makes total sense. We should take into account his recurring injury problems throughout his career and the fact that he is injured again right now. Today will be his 5th start in the last 50 days. Not to mention he has moved to a huge pitchers park where his ERA is over 1.50 less than it is on the road since joining Oakland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hammerhead johnson Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 07:47 PM) We should take into account his recurring injury problems throughout his career and the fact that he is injured again right now. Today will be his 5th start in the last 50 days. Not to mention he has moved to a huge pitchers park where his ERA is over 1.50 less than it is on the road since joining Oakland. We should also take into account that Brandon McCarthy led the major leagues in FIP last season, and his road FIP was only .16 higher than his home FIP, so forget about that home stadium talk. He was unbelievably dominant. You have to see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 02:56 PM) We should also take into account that Brandon McCarthy led the major leagues in FIP last season, and his road FIP was only .16 higher than his home FIP, so forget about that home stadium talk. He was unbelievably dominant. You have to see that. He also made only 25 starts, which just so happened to be his career high. The guy has been unable to stay healthy, and has made only 80 starts in his time in the majors. Danks has made 159 over the same stretch. Even without ballpark factors Bmac's ratios are only marginally better than Danks. (ERA 0.11 better, WHIP 0.0026 better, H/9 0.1 worse, BB/H 0.02 better) That doesn't even begin to do justice to the WAR differences (Bmac 6.1, Danks 18.4). Sure McCarthy has had a better year for the two and a half months of this season, but the Sox won this trade by a huge margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 01:32 PM) Thornton was ruined by the closer experiment. I think Father Time is the biggest culprit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 19, 2012 -> 02:08 PM) I think Father Time is the biggest culprit It's hard to say what the reason(s) are, but he should be demoted within the pen unless he steps up soon. Wish we could trade him before this becomes absolutely necessary. Edited June 19, 2012 by Stan Bahnsen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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