John Danks diagnosed with a grade 1 scapula tear

[Dick Allen]

I'm not going to guarantee the Royals over the White Sox, but do you really believe with Danks out for probably two months that the White Sox should be favored over a Tigers team that just got back Fister and Austin Jackson?

Many have been crying recently that Danks was given a contract extension. Now that he's for a little while, that shouldn't be used as a reason the team can't hang with Detroit. They have been hanging with them without Danks being healthy, and Floyd and Humber being horrible up until now. If Floyd or Humber or both bounces back and Danks returns healthy, the Sox will be fine. There's also no guarantee Detroit remains healthy.

[Harry Chappas]

Isn't there a theory that if you look hard enough you will find some sort of injury to a pitcher's arm. I am hoping that is what this is and in 3 weeks he will feel better.

[oldsox]

Would Kenny have released Doyle if he had known about this injury?

[southsider2k5]

Would Kenny have released Doyle if he had known about this injury?

 

Yes. Doyle is somewhere around the 10th to 12th starter in the organization right now.

 

Danks

Peavy

Sale

Floyd

Humber

Quintana

Stewart

Axelrod

Castro

 

You might even say that someone like Hector Santiago could be stretched out ahead of Doyle, and throw in Pedro Hernandez as a maybe as well.

[Dick Allen]

Isn't there a theory that if you look hard enough you will find some sort of injury to a pitcher's arm. I am hoping that is what this is and in 3 weeks he will feel better.

I've heard of this theory. I've also read that eventually if they pitch long enough, every pitcher will suffer some sort of major arm injury. Some it happens almost immediately. Some it takes 20 years. The only ones who avoid it are the ones it would have taken longer than the length of their careers.

Edited June 19, 2012 by Dick Allen

[caulfield12]

Yes. Doyle is somewhere around the 10th to 12th starter in the organization right now.

 

Danks

Peavy

Sale

Floyd

Humber

Quintana

Stewart

Axelrod

Castro

 

You might even say that someone like Hector Santiago could be stretched out ahead of Doyle, and throw in Pedro Hernandez as a maybe as well.

 

 

Poor Nestor.

[caulfield12]

Many have been crying recently that Danks was given a contract extension. Now that he's for a little while, that shouldn't be used as a reason the team can't hang with Detroit. They have been hanging with them without Danks being healthy, and Floyd and Humber being horrible up until now. If Floyd or Humber or both bounces back and Danks returns healthy, the Sox will be fine. There's also no guarantee Detroit remains healthy.

 

 

I voted that KW should have done exactly what he did, despite the way things had been working so far this year.

 

But therein lies the problem...Sale/Peavy/Quintana can't possibly be as good as they have been, and have tons of room for regression and/or being shut down prematurely due to their previous work totals in 2010 and 2011.

 

Humber, Floyd, Axelrod, Stewart, Castro, don't have anywhere to go but up, same with Hudson/3B.

 

At best, it's probably a wash.

 

Which is more likely, for Peavy/Quintana to fall back or for Humber/Floyd to post 3.5-4.5 ERA's in the heart of summertime at USCF?

 

 

[Dick Allen]

I voted that KW should have done exactly what he did, despite the way things had been working so far this year.

 

But therein lies the problem...Sale/Peavy/Quintana can't possibly be as good as they have been, and have tons of room for regression and/or being shut down prematurely due to their previous work totals in 2010 and 2011.

 

Humber, Floyd, Axelrod, Stewart, Castro, don't have anywhere to go but up, same with Hudson/3B.

 

At best, it's probably a wash.

 

Which is more likely, for Peavy/Quintana to fall back or for Humber/Floyd to post 3.5-4.5 ERA's in the heart of summertime at USCF?

There's no reason to think Floyd won't be better. He does this every year. Humber is scary. As for Sale and Peavy, Quintana regressing, it probably will happen, but the Sox hitters also benefit from the summer air. It really doesn't matter if they will 4-2 or 6-4.

[caulfield12]

There's no reason to think Floyd won't be better. He does this every year. Humber is scary. As for Sale and Peavy, Quintana regressing, it probably will happen, but the Sox hitters also benefit from the summer air. It really doesn't matter if they will 4-2 or 6-4.

 

 

We can't even use the "just look at the back of his baseball card" excuse with Humber.

 

Floyd at least has the track record, but we saw that Dunn, Rios and Beckham never came out of their slumps for all of last year...it could conceivably happen with Floyd the way he's going.

[LittleHurt05]

Scott Merkin ‏@scottmerkin

White Sox release official info on John Danks: mild Grade 1 strain of the subscapularis muscle in his left shoulder.

Tests show no tendon or ligament damage, and his labrum is intact. The strain has shown improvement from previous MRI on May 23.

Danks will begin a rehabilitation and strengthening program on Friday under supervision of head athletic trainer Herm Schneider

Danks tentatively will begin another rehabilitation assignment in the next 3-4 weeks.

So almost certainly no Danks until after the All-Star Break

 

 

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Chuck Garfien ‏@ChuckGarfien

 

White Sox announce that John Danks "strained" the subscapularis muscle in his left shoulder. No tear. Better news.

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

Chuck Garfien ‏@ChuckGarfien

 

White Sox announce that John Danks "strained" the subscapularis muscle in his left shoulder. No tear. Better news.

Isn't the meaning on those basically identical? A severe strain = a moderate tear?

[ptatc]

Isn't the meaning on those basically identical? A severe strain = a moderate tear?

sorry I didn't post earlier, we had a late Lacrosse practice last night.

 

The definitions are sometimes used interchangably but they really shouldn't. From what I read there is no tear. The grade 1 strain means there is no tear. This tendon however needs to be handled very carefully. It is the anterior or front tendon of the rotator cuff. It is responsible for slowing the arm down when he bring the arm back during the windup phase and accelerating the arm forward during the acceleration phase. If there is a severe problem with the tendon there will also be some stability issues with the whole joint because as you raise your arm over your head the humerus slides forward in the joint and this muscle needs to absorb some of that force.

 

The grade 1 is a good sign and the 3-6 weeks time frame is a good estimate. The crap about the MRI being being better than before is nonsense. If it was worse before, he wouldn't have tried anything in the minors. This is not a season ending injury. Once the inflammation goes down and the strength up he'll be fine. It does however have a direct correlation to his decreased velocity not so much from strength but pain.

[iamshack]

sorry I didn't post earlier, we had a late Lacrosse practice last night.

 

The definitions are sometimes used interchangably but they really shouldn't. From what I read there is no tear. The grade 1 strain means there is no tear. This tendon however needs to be handled very carefully. It is the anterior or front tendon of the rotator cuff. It is responsible for slowing the arm down when he bring the arm back during the windup phase and accelerating the arm forward during the acceleration phase. If there is a severe problem with the tendon there will also be some stability issues with the whole joint because as you raise your arm over your head the humerus slides forward in the joint and this muscle needs to absorb some of that force.

 

The grade 1 is a good sign and the 3-6 weeks time frame is a good estimate. The crap about the MRI being being better than before is nonsense. If it was worse before, he wouldn't have tried anything in the minors. This is not a season ending injury. Once the inflammation goes down and the strength up he'll be fine. It does however have a direct correlation to his decreased velocity not so much from strength but pain.

Yeah, I was just about to post all this too, but ptatc beat me to it again...happens every time!

[bobryansson]

sorry I didn't post earlier, we had a late Lacrosse practice last night.

 

...The crap about the MRI being being better than before is nonsense. If it was worse before, he wouldn't have tried anything in the minors...

 

Happens not uncommonly that using the retrospectoscope on an x-ray shows something not seen previously. Tendinopathy seen initially on contrast MRI allows it to then be localized/visualized on prior plain scan, allowing comparison.

Perhaps a stretch (No tendon pun intended.), but not necessarily "nonsense" or "crap."

[southsider2k5]

sorry I didn't post earlier, we had a late Lacrosse practice last night.

 

The definitions are sometimes used interchangably but they really shouldn't. From what I read there is no tear. The grade 1 strain means there is no tear. This tendon however needs to be handled very carefully. It is the anterior or front tendon of the rotator cuff. It is responsible for slowing the arm down when he bring the arm back during the windup phase and accelerating the arm forward during the acceleration phase. If there is a severe problem with the tendon there will also be some stability issues with the whole joint because as you raise your arm over your head the humerus slides forward in the joint and this muscle needs to absorb some of that force.

 

The grade 1 is a good sign and the 3-6 weeks time frame is a good estimate. The crap about the MRI being being better than before is nonsense. If it was worse before, he wouldn't have tried anything in the minors. This is not a season ending injury. Once the inflammation goes down and the strength up he'll be fine. It does however have a direct correlation to his decreased velocity not so much from strength but pain.

 

Thanks as always!

[ptatc]

Happens not uncommonly that using the retrospectoscope on an x-ray shows something not seen previously. Tendinopathy seen initially on contrast MRI allows it to then be localized/visualized on prior plain scan, allowing comparison.

Perhaps a stretch (No tendon pun intended.), but not necessarily "nonsense" or "crap."

This is true. However, They would have done the same MRI the second time they did as the first for comparison. Since they determined it was a grade 1, the only thing you can really look at for the tendon is the presence of fluid in the tendon. The suscapularis is so small and blends with the teres major and lat tendons that regardless if you use T1, T2 or contrast medium, you really can't "see" the individual tendon well. Injuries to this tendon are often misdianosed using imaging techniques, as are many injuries to the shoulder because of the tight space and many anatomic structures present.

I'm not an imaging expert but based on my experience and many research articles I refer to MRIs as "More Radiographic Income" as their true purpose. They can be useful to confirm the physical diagnosis but are not really useful on their own.

[bobryansson]

This is true. However, They would have done the same MRI the second time they did as the first for comparison. Since they determined it was a grade 1, the only thing you can really look at for the tendon is the presence of fluid in the tendon. The suscapularis is so small and blends with the teres major and lat tendons that regardless if you use T1, T2 or contrast medium, you really can't "see" the individual tendon well. Injuries to this tendon are often misdianosed using imaging techniques, as are many injuries to the shoulder because of the tight space and many anatomic structures present.

I'm not an imaging expert but based on my experience and many research articles I refer to MRIs as "More Radiographic Income" as their true purpose. They can be useful to confirm the physical diagnosis but are not really useful on their own.

Agree, particularly on the "income" quote. Hadn't heard your more realistic MRI definition. Love it and will quote it, sourcing appropriately. Thanks.

[Balta1701]

Pitcher John Danks was shagging flies during batting practice. His rehabilitation and strengthening program with trainer Herm Schneider will start Friday.

 

Pitching coach Don Cooper sounded more definitive and optimistic about the prospects of Danks recovering from a Grade 1 strain of the subscapularis muscle in his left shoulder.

 

"It looks like we can get him back around the third week of July, if everything goes right," Cooper told CSN Chicago.

 

That would mean a July 16-19 return against the Red Sox in Boston or perhaps against the Tigers in Detroit the following series. It also might be a bit ambitious because Danks suffered soreness two days after pitching four innings in a minor league rehab assignment June 12. Danks isn't scheduled to resume a minor league rehab assignment for at least three weeks, according to an update the Sox issued Tuesday.

Link

[Eminor3rd]

First place may be history soon.

 

And it won't have anything to do with Danks not pitching.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Yes. Doyle is somewhere around the 10th to 12th starter in the organization right now.

 

Danks

Peavy

Sale

Floyd

Humber

Quintana

Stewart

Axelrod

Castro

 

You might even say that someone like Hector Santiago could be stretched out ahead of Doyle, and throw in Pedro Hernandez as a maybe as well.

We might have hung onto Stults, though.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Yes. Doyle is somewhere around the 10th to 12th starter in the organization right now.

 

Danks

Peavy

Sale

Floyd

Humber

Quintana

Stewart

Axelrod

Castro

 

You might even say that someone like Hector Santiago could be stretched out ahead of Doyle, and throw in Pedro Hernandez as a maybe as well.

 

I would think Doyle would have gotten a chance before Castro, Hernandez, and Santiago. That really just leaves Stewart, Axelrod, and Quintana in front of him. Either way, he is getting a massive pay raise, and it's hard to blame the guy. It's not like he has already accrued millions and millions in the majors. He is going from just getting by, to making a very nice living. Hard to turn that down.

[Balta1701]

I would think Doyle would have gotten a chance before Castro, Hernandez, and Santiago. That really just leaves Stewart, Axelrod, and Quintana in front of him. Either way, he is getting a massive pay raise, and it's hard to blame the guy. It's not like he has already accrued millions and millions in the majors. He is going from just getting by, to making a very nice living. Hard to turn that down.

There's starting to be a decent chance Castro will get a look this year if there's need for another starter, although they're talking up Leesman a lot so he might still be ahead of Simon. Either way, he's back up to AAA and is probably in the team's long term plans as I'm typing this.

[southsider2k5]

I would think Doyle would have gotten a chance before Castro, Hernandez, and Santiago. That really just leaves Stewart, Axelrod, and Quintana in front of him. Either way, he is getting a massive pay raise, and it's hard to blame the guy. It's not like he has already accrued millions and millions in the majors. He is going from just getting by, to making a very nice living. Hard to turn that down.

 

Either way, it puts Doyle way down the list, and the Sox obviously don't think very highly of him.

[Jake]

There's starting to be a decent chance Castro will get a look this year if there's need for another starter, although they're talking up Leesman a lot so he might still be ahead of Simon. Either way, he's back up to AAA and is probably in the team's long term plans as I'm typing this.

 

Yeah, I think Castro will be one of the next guys we see. Leesman...I don't know. I wonder how many lefties we're willing to have in the rotation? lol. Castro (supposedly) has a very high ceiling though so I hope he really produces in AAA.