Dick Allen Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (daa84 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 10:45 AM) viciedo has a .285 on base percentage. yes he's young and has power, but lets not act like hes a young frank thomas He's 23 and we've seen flashes of what he can be. You don't give that up for a rental. KW wouldn't give him up anyway. He's a bigger fan of Viciedo than anyone on this board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 10:36 AM) So you cite two of KW's worst and most short-sighted moves as support for trading Viciedo for 3 months of Greinke. That makes no sense. Also, not defending the Jackson deal, but he was under control for an extra season, so the Sox had the opportunity to recoup some of the cost that next deadline or would at least be eligible for draft pick compensation if they held on to him. You're only guaranteed 3 months of Greinke if you trade for him. If you don't win the World Series, you risk losing 5 years of Viciedo for nothing. I'd rather wait until the offseason, use the Peavy money towards a Greinke offer and keep Viciedo at the same time. The best chance the Sox would have to sign Greinke is if they went deep into the playoffs. Best chance for them to go deep into the playoffs is to trade for Greinke. Over Viciedo's next five years, will the Sox have a better chance to win a World Series than they do this year? Given the age on this team and the worst farm system in baseball I don't see how you can answer that "yes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (Noonskadoodle @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 08:59 AM) Buster As written yesterday, White Sox perceived by some executives to be front-runners for Youkilis. The OPS of CWS 3Bmen: .460, worst in majors. Which is pretty much what Youk has put up in June Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 09:56 AM) I think it's worth Viciedo, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 10:39 AM) If Grienke had a couple years left on his contract, I could see it, but trading Viciedo for 2 months of Grienke is the type of move that gets your team very bad for a very long time. How good do they project to be with Viciedo? Oddly, the Sox are in the same trading position as teams with full farm systems. They can give up a Viciedo and it won't make a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 10:49 AM) Which is pretty much what Youk has put up in June I know you have been hammering this point about how bad Youkilis has been for awhile now, and I can't dispute your concern. However, I am curious as to what you would do at 3rd. Would you continue with Hudson? Let Escobar play more? Maybe go with Conor Jackson or Dan Johnson? I don't disagree that Youk has been awful but what would you be in favor of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 10:54 AM) How good do they project to be with Viciedo? Oddly, the Sox are in the same trading position as teams with full farm systems. They can give up a Viciedo and it won't make a difference. Pretty good. They are currently a half game out of first with their opening day starter on the DL, their #4 guy really struggling and their #5 guy stinking up the joint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 11:00 AM) Pretty good. They are currently a half game out of first with their opening day starter on the DL, their #4 guy really struggling and their #5 guy stinking up the joint. Pretty good doesn't cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 We have seen the good and the bad with Viciedo this season. When he is good, this offense is a wrecking ball. When he is bad, you have to hope that Konerko and Dunn are carrying their weight, which isnt all that bad. Right now I think the Sox are suffering because clearly Konerko isnt right with his wrist yet, and Dunn is suffering because of it. When Konerko was on fire, Dunn was benefiting, and it carried through the lineup. I think trading Viciedo for Greinke would be pretty short sighted at this point. KW has to see what Viciedo can do through a season before he goes and trades him for a rental starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 10:02 AM) Pretty good doesn't cut it. Actually, in this division, pretty good might cut it plenty, with a little left over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 11:02 AM) I think trading Viciedo for Greinke would be pretty short sighted at this point. KW has to see what Viciedo can do through a season before he goes and trades him for a rental starter. Greinke might get you a World Series. Next 5 years of Viciedo they might not win a division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 09:59 AM) I know you have been hammering this point about how bad Youkilis has been for awhile now, and I can't dispute your concern. However, I am curious as to what you would do at 3rd. Would you continue with Hudson? Let Escobar play more? Maybe go with Conor Jackson or Dan Johnson? I don't disagree that Youk has been awful but what would you be in favor of? I still think Josh Fields would help, and he would not cost much if anything. Sox should not be hung up on defensive shortcomings from 3-4 yrs ago. At least scout him to see if he has improved. At least he can hit more than a little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 11:07 AM) Greinke might get you a World Series. Next 5 years of Viciedo they might not win a division. Impossible to tell either way. Trading for Greinke strengthens an already good rotation, but creates a hole in an already questionable lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I like a balanced team, so let's not rob Peter to pay Paul, then rape Matthew, Mark, Luke & John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 11:07 AM) Greinke might get you a World Series. Next 5 years of Viciedo they might not win a division. Man you sound more and more like KW with every single post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (oldsox @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 11:09 AM) I still think Josh Fields would help, and he would not cost much if anything. Sox should not be hung up on defensive shortcomings from 3-4 yrs ago. At least scout him to see if he has improved. At least he can hit more than a little bit. Why do you keep thinking the guy can hit? He was MISERABLE at the plate with multiple teams. He strikes out too much for a lineup already containing Dunn. Then you add his bad defense? f*** that, i would rather stick with hudson, at least that guy has a track record of hitting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 11:12 AM) Impossible to tell either way. Trading for Greinke strengthens an already good rotation, but creates a hole in an already questionable lineup. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 11:12 AM) Impossible to tell either way. Trading for Greinke strengthens an already good rotation, but creates a hole in an already questionable lineup. The Sox have limited opponents to 2 runs or less 27 times and are slightly above .500. I agree with you, dumping offense isn't going to propel the Sox to the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 The last thing the Brewers need is a power hitting corner outfielder. If they trade Greinke, they will want pitching back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 10:59 AM) I know you have been hammering this point about how bad Youkilis has been for awhile now, and I can't dispute your concern. However, I am curious as to what you would do at 3rd. Would you continue with Hudson? Let Escobar play more? Maybe go with Conor Jackson or Dan Johnson? I don't disagree that Youk has been awful but what would you be in favor of? As of now, I'd give Escobar a shot. I am not willing to mortgage the future who is rapidly deteriorating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I think the Red Sox are more interested in dumping Youkilis ASAP more because they will probably just have to release him when Ellsbury and/or Crawford come back instead of the distraction his situation has become. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 11:07 AM) Greinke might get you a World Series. Next 5 years of Viciedo they might not win a division. The f***?! Did Dayan run over your cat or something? You seriously have a vendetta against him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 11:15 AM) As of now, I'd give Escobar a shot. I am not willing to mortgage the future who is rapidly deteriorating. How would we be mortgaging the future by trading for Youkilis? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 11:14 AM) The last thing the Brewers need is a power hitting corner outfielder. If they trade Greinke, they will want pitching back. That. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 11:15 AM) As of now, I'd give Escobar a shot. I am not willing to mortgage the future who is rapidly deteriorating. If it costs no more or just slightly more than what it would cost to bring in a recently released player, giving Youkilis a shot is worth it. Anything that costs the Sox significant money or significant prospects for Youkilis would be awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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