elrockinMT Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 3, 2012 -> 03:58 PM) When the Sox got Floyd from Phillies.............Philly brass felt about Floyd what most of Sox fans feel he is never going to be more than what he is now. Trading Floyd for Youk would not be overpaying to me........Floyd's value decreases every start. Then we got alot out of Floyd because I don't think he ever had the opportunity in Philly that he has had in Chicago. I also think when Floyd has the curve and more working together you find a dominant pitcher. You just don't give up on the kind of talent Floyd has by trading him for maybe a half year acquisiton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macsandz Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 2, 2012 -> 03:10 PM) Spoken with an odd amount of certainty. Just sharing what I was told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Soxfan Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 Lost in all of the hype with the current hot streak is really how bad Floyd has been. Let's hope he gets it turned around. I wonder what kind of offers KW turned down for Floyd in the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Jun 3, 2012 -> 10:58 AM) Youks batting .314 since coming off the DL, raising his BA from .219 to .253, raising his OBP .032 points to .324, and his OPS .103 points up from .635 to .738. His back was clearly holding him back, but then again perhaps the same could be said for Brent. If Brent doesnt come back and perform and Youks still available for Thornton and lower level prospects you do that deal. IMO adding youk moves the sox from a playoff contender to a WS contender. Is the "WS Contender" factoring in acquiring Youkilis without giving up Floyd, Thornton or Crain? Just taking on salary...or sending prospects their way? The problem is the better Youkilis starts to play, the more likely they are to hold onto him...and Middlebrooks, like all rookies, will go through a down period where a team in a pennant race will be tempted to go with the veteran leader, just like they did with Mike Lowell in the past. With the AL East being such a logjam, this trade becomes less and less likely the better the Red Sox play, especially with all the issues in Boston's outfield offensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 3, 2012 -> 11:31 AM) If you think Gavin is the definition of a damn good quality starting pitcher you have a very inflated value for give away Gavin. Let someone else whether it be Boston or another sucker deal with the headcase. He would not be missed at all. Wow, an actual paragraph from soxfest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jun 3, 2012 -> 06:32 PM) Just sharing what I was told. I appreciate sharing! QUOTE (Springfield SoxFan @ Jun 3, 2012 -> 06:34 PM) Lost in all of the hype with the current hot streak is really how bad Floyd has been. Let's hope he gets it turned around. I wonder what kind of offers KW turned down for Floyd in the offseason. Let's just keep in mind all these teams that have hit Gavin hard lately are VERY left handed lineups. Not to say a starter should get off not getting opposite handed hitters out, but it is stacking the deck against him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I wouldn't mind giving Floyd up for Youk. I think Quintana can be a solid backend rotation starter for us. But you know what Gavin is. He is a solid big leaguer starter in the AL. Never gonna be a stud, but definitely solid as a mid-rotation guy. My biggest problem with Gavin (and I do not have any stats to back this up, this is purely observational), but in big starts, he doesn't pitch well. When the pressure is on, I feel like Gavin shrivels up and wets the bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jun 3, 2012 -> 08:21 PM) I wouldn't mind giving Floyd up for Youk. I think Quintana can be a solid backend rotation starter for us. But you know what Gavin is. He is a solid big leaguer starter in the AL. Never gonna be a stud, but definitely solid as a mid-rotation guy. My biggest problem with Gavin (and I do not have any stats to back this up, this is purely observational), but in big starts, he doesn't pitch well. When the pressure is on, I feel like Gavin shrivels up and wets the bed. I don't think that is necessarily true...he's pitched well against the Tigers and Red Sox in his career...he has lost a lot of big starts to the Twins, that is for certain. I truly just think he loses focus easily and that costs him when he's pitching out of the stretch. For a guy with such a dynamite arm, he's just utterly frustrating to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I think Gavin is just inconsistent mechanically. This means when he is off, it is not easy for him to just "recalibrate" and start throwing like he wants. This might make him seem nut-less, but he's just streaky...there's lots of pitchers like this. I'd say we don't know much about him as a big game pitcher because there haven't been a great deal of big games since he's been here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) Both Floyd and Danks have never quite measured up to their 2008 success. Instead of improving, they "maintained" or arguably regresssed a bit. Second, the "stuff" argument, which is reminiscent of Javy. Cue Hawk: "I've never seen a pitcher with Javy's or Gavin's pure stuff have a career .500 record." Third, as fathom has noted, he really really struggles with runners on base. Out of the stretch, he tends to elevate all of his fastballs up in the zone, and his offspeed stuff flattens out. If anything, Cooper really should be working on getting more explosion/leverage and on his mechanics in these situations. Of course, Gavin's been on our roster for 5+ seasons, if it was an "easy" fix like he had with Matt Thornton, then Guru Don already would have fixed him by now. Edited June 4, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 3, 2012 -> 07:42 PM) I think Gavin is just inconsistent mechanically. This means when he is off, it is not easy for him to just "recalibrate" and start throwing like he wants. This might make him seem nut-less, but he's just streaky...there's lots of pitchers like this. I'd say we don't know much about him as a big game pitcher because there haven't been a great deal of big games since he's been here. Except for 2008 down the stretch, the 2008 playoff start, 2010 when we were near or in first place....and this year, but not a HUGE record of "big-game" failures, it's mostly just perception. Same way John Danks will ALWAYS be thought of as a big-game pitcher due to Game 163, it tends to skew our perceptions one way or the other. Frankly, between the two, you couldn't trust either guy right now. Or Humber. Just Sale and Peavy, and Jake has those two "collapses" against DET and CLE now appended to his sterling results this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) You just pitch them. Danks and Floyd have very, very good track records and I just don't see a reason to believe they're going to fall apart. ptatc has made me feel assured that this Danks issue probably momentary, injury-wise. Humber is more of a toss up due to his lack of track record...but I think something odd has happened recently. He's never been a pitcher that has walked guys, and that's been his issue. I'll be more worried when he's getting beaten at his own kind of game. Teams with sure things end up finding out they are not sure things...look at the Phillies. People get hurt and stuff. You just never know. Edited June 4, 2012 by Jake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 2, 2012 -> 11:19 AM) Matt Thornton is the max I'd trade. That's exactly right. Old for old expensive for expensive. That's all I would give up take it or leave it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 3, 2012 -> 11:17 PM) That's exactly right. Old for old expensive for expensive. That's all I would give up take it or leave it. That's my thinking. I don't want to give them a young guy and I don't want to take on that whole Youk contract without sending a pricey vet their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 3, 2012 -> 11:23 PM) That's my thinking. I don't want to give them a young guy and I don't want to take on that whole Youk contract without sending a pricey vet their way. I don't want to regret not having Matty down the stretch...as much as he has struggled in big spots this year, it's not like the ball is getting hit hard. What does Youkilis add to this mix? More offense? It seems to me we have enough offense. It's defense and pitching that we need... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 I'm done w/ Thornton. Crain-Jones-Reed. That's a fine 7th-8th-9th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Jun 3, 2012 -> 11:35 PM) I'm done w/ Thornton. Crain-Jones-Reed. That's a fine 7th-8th-9th. Except none of them are left-handed. Edited June 4, 2012 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 3, 2012 -> 11:36 PM) Except none of them are left-handed. Correct, although I personally like Santiago to eventually fill that role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 3, 2012 -> 10:36 PM) Except none of them are left-handed. We still have Santiago/Ohman/Quintana. That's already better than most MLB teams, in terms of the LH relief department. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 3, 2012 -> 09:03 PM) Is the "WS Contender" factoring in acquiring Youkilis without giving up Floyd, Thornton or Crain? Just taking on salary...or sending prospects their way? The problem is the better Youkilis starts to play, the more likely they are to hold onto him...and Middlebrooks, like all rookies, will go through a down period where a team in a pennant race will be tempted to go with the veteran leader, just like they did with Mike Lowell in the past. With the AL East being such a logjam, this trade becomes less and less likely the better the Red Sox play, especially with all the issues in Boston's outfield offensively. as my post said its factoring in giving up Thornton and prospects. I'm a Santiago fan so I dont think we lose much in using him as your lefty set up guy. Quintana can step in as the lefty long man and the pen wont skip a beat. If Middlebrooks keeps hitting like he is they might not have a choice. Are Jacoby, Crawford and Ross all coming back this year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 yeah lets keep throwing santiago out there, are you kidding me? not saying he'll never be a consistent reliever but watching that dude come in, ugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (Real @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 03:31 AM) yeah lets keep throwing santiago out there, are you kidding me? not saying he'll never be a consistent reliever but watching that dude come in, ugh Unless I'm missing something he's been lights out his last 10 appearances or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 03:33 AM) Unless I'm missing something he's been lights out his last 10 appearances or so. In 13 1/3 IP in May/June, he has allowed 11 hits, 7 BB, 12 K, and ERA of 1.35, and a WHIP of 1.35. He has been pretty decent. Not great, definitely not bad. But I still would rather have him be a starter or long reliever. I don't like him coming in for an inning at a time like he has, although that bump in velocity is nice to go along w/ his screwball and curveball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 18 baserunners in 13.1 IP, that's what I don't like about him. he seems to be in 1-0, 2-0, 3-1 counts a lot, am I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 QUOTE (Real @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 04:43 AM) 18 baserunners in 13.1 IP, that's what I don't like about him. he seems to be in 1-0, 2-0, 3-1 counts a lot, am I wrong? I guess lights out is a bit of overstatment. Decent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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