Jake Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 "We believe he can develop into a good major league starter," Cherington said. "We want to get him back in that role. He's a big, physical, strong kid with three solid pitches. Throws strikes, has had a good minor league track record. He's a guy that looks like a major league starter but just needs a little more time at Triple A to fine-tune things. We're excited and he'll be a big part of our pitching depth going forward." This is what I'd say about Zach if I believed about Zach what I do and wanted to make it look like I won a trade that I was fleeced in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jun 24, 2012 -> 09:25 PM) no kidding, I'm sure the 5 year old is not crying because of sabremetrics,.. I heard he was crying because Lilli was not part of a CF platoon since ADA can't hit lefties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 24, 2012 -> 06:57 PM) The reason Stewart helped this deal is because he's not a value-less player, despite the meatballish opinions that are so popular on here. He is young and has a good sinker. If he keeps it down and is consistent, he'll be an innings eater. We don't have that many guys in our system that could be a mid-to-back of rotation starter with perhaps some minor tweaking and experience. I'm happy to move him for Youkilis, but he was a better piece than I would have considered ideal. You are correct in stating this. Stewart can become valuable . Most hated him for this year's production. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 25, 2012 -> 10:19 AM) I'm not about to go to Vegas and place a bet on Zach Stewart making his way to being a fixture at the MLB level, but I see a young-ish player that has had his development pretty well botched switching from relief to starter to relief to starter and having his repertoire pay for it. My main point is that his failure at the MLB level is not necessarily indicative of a career of failing at the MLB level. Because of the flashes you see and the fact that he hasn't had much time spent as a sinkerballer or as a starter (and only half a season of being both sinker thrower and reliever), there may be some untapped potential that may show up yet. I feel like everyone has to know that but refuse to say it. My stance always has been that he should been a starting pitcher in AAA and could have been tossed to the wolves if that didn't work out. Same with Hector Santiago. They're inconsistent, which is probably the most common problem for pitchers but likewise the most commonly corrected one. That said, I think we're deep in Stewart types that are a tweak or a little bit of experience away from being serviceable MLB pitchers/starters. The irritating thing about Stewart and also Santiago is that I believe they were not ready for the MLB level and not put in a good position to succeed by the White Sox, even if them being there was best for the MLB club (I'm not convinced Brian Bruney couldn't have given us the same production) Jeff Marquez when he was acquired had some of the same projections attached to him...I saw a lot more of Marquez and less of Jon Garland over the last two years. Maybe you'll be right. We've never really had a "second tier" starting prospect that we traded make it big. Not since Josh Fogg. Maybe Clayton Richard, if you want to count him. Our only misses have been with Gio and Hudson, trading them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (Swingandalongonetoleft @ Jun 24, 2012 -> 06:58 PM) Lillibridge's ability to do everything is what I'll miss. He could probably pitch too. And catch at the same time. The thing I like best about this trade is that it's relatively early. If he's going to make an impact, better now than over a month later at the deadline. Hope that .225 BA climbs some during his time here. Sox must really want continuity at 3B to get a guy dealing with back problems. Hopefully his back heals and his bat comes around. Sox do have a brutal schedule coming up. Best case scenario is Youk helps us beat the Yankees which also helps the Red Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd_city_saint787 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) What a great trade by KW, Youk for a pitcher that just got demoted and a utility guy who was hitting well under the mendoza mark. Surprised there has been no mention that he is 6 for his last 14, including a triple in todays game...perhaps he really does feel the best hes felt in awhile! With Hudson, Escobar(who can play the OF), and Danks, lilibieber isnt really needed...Danks is probably a better OFer than him, Hudsons one of the best at 2B, and Escobar will play better D at short and 3rd. He's probably faster than all those guys but not by much. Edited June 25, 2012 by 2nd_city_saint787 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 25, 2012 -> 10:33 AM) You are correct in stating this. Stewart can become valuable . Most hated him for this year's production. And last year's 7.88 ERA against all teams not named the mostly Twins' Rochester line-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) When you make a deal for a need and Brent Lillibridge is the best player you trade, you know it's a good deal. I'll miss Brent for the fact he played his ass off for us (alot better than most of the guys on our team), and he's a real nice guy on and off the field, but this is a no brainer. Edited June 25, 2012 by SoxAce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 24, 2012 -> 07:47 PM) And last year's 7.88 ERA against all teams not named the mostly Twins' Rochester line-up. We were out of it last year. This year we have a chance so any player doing bad gets the " get rid of him" treatment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 24, 2012 -> 09:36 PM) Jeff Marquez when he was acquired had some of the same projections attached to him...I saw a lot more of Marquez and less of Jon Garland over the last two years. This is not a bad comparison, both needed some last minute fine tuning to really make it. The only real difference is in the details, Stewart has been kind of jerked around between relief pitching and starting pitching. He dropped his once 93+ four seamer in favor of the starter-ish sinker and never found it consistently once moved to the pen (which IMO is hard to do). There is a bit more reason to think he'll turn it around than Jeff Marquez (or hindsight is simply too clear), but it's a similar idea and really a very similar trade overall. Hopefully we make out as well as the Yankees did when we had to sell of Swisher for nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I have been very anti-Youkilis trade due to the fact that he has sucked hard since last July. But considering how little Hudson has done, and the cost is only $2 million, Stewart, & Lillibridge? f*** it, I'm on board. Let's go Youk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 24, 2012 -> 09:25 PM) "We believe he can develop into a good major league starter," Cherington said. "We want to get him back in that role. He's a big, physical, strong kid with three solid pitches(1). Throws strikes(2), has had a good minor league track record(3). He's a guy that looks like a major league starter but just needs a little more time at Triple A to fine-tune things. We're excited and he'll be a big part of our pitching depth going forward." 1 - Not on this planet. His fastball has movement, but it also has movement out of the ballpark. His changeup is mediocre and his slider is fringy. 2 - This is true. 3 - This is not true. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/pro...Zachary-Stewart I think Stewart is a product of draft pick bias. Because he was a 3rd round pick, teams feel obligated to give him a chance even though he had pedestrian numbers in the minors. If Stewart was drafted in the 10th round I sincerely doubt he would have ever sniffed the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Jun 24, 2012 -> 10:14 PM) 1 - Not on this planet. His fastball has movement, but it also has movement out of the ballpark. His changeup is mediocre and his slider is fringy. 2 - This is true. 3 - This is not true. http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/pro...Zachary-Stewart I think Stewart is a product of draft pick bias. Because he was a 3rd round pick, teams feel obligated to give him a chance even though he had pedestrian numbers in the minors. If Stewart was drafted in the 10th round I sincerely doubt he would have ever sniffed the majors. For the record, these are the words of the BoSox GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 24, 2012 -> 08:09 PM) Look, I like your optimism Jake, but I really don't feel I'm of the meatballish leanings that you are referring to because I see a player that has gotten blown the f*** up this season despite his "good" sinker you think he has. I know you play ball, Jake. You should know how to call it out. I don't think he's claiming everyone who disliked Stewart is a meatball...there is clearly room for a difference of opinion on the guy. But I tend to agree with Jake on this one...and to Caulfield's disbelief, I didn't even see the no-hit bid against the Twins as I was out in the middle of the woods camping. He clearly is not ready to be a major league starter, but I think he will be one day. He does have a sinker that moves all over the place, it's just a question of him learning how to throw it consistently. And for Cherington's comments, what do we expect him to say? This guy really blows, but I had to get a warm body back to appease the fanbase... Best of luck to Zach and Brent...I'd rather them both still be here...but they're not, so go GGW. And I am certainly happy youtube wasn't around when I was little, because my uncle would have had so much s*** on the internet of me as a kid doing f***ed up things... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 24, 2012 -> 09:26 PM) I heard he was crying because Lilli was not part of a CF platoon since ADA can't hit lefties Cause of stats and metrics and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 25, 2012 -> 11:28 AM) I don't think he's claiming everyone who disliked Stewart is a meatball...there is clearly room for a difference of opinion on the guy. But I tend to agree with Jake on this one...and to Caulfield's disbelief, I didn't even see the no-hit bid against the Twins as I was out in the middle of the woods camping. He clearly is not ready to be a major league starter, but I think he will be one day. He does have a sinker that moves all over the place, it's just a question of him learning how to throw it consistently. And for Cherington's comments, what do we expect him to say? This guy really blows, but I had to get a warm body back to appease the fanbase... Best of luck to Zach and Brent...I'd rather them both still be here...but they're not, so go GGW. And I am certainly happy youtube wasn't around when I was little, because my uncle would have had so much s*** on the internet of me as a kid doing f***ed up things... I thought you were probably out formulating counter-arguments for Dick Allen and Baron to continue the attendance thread for another 20+ pages, into a new week at least. After watching Julianne Hough in Rock of Ages, I'm not sure which was more time lost from my life...but I did wade through every page in that thread. So did Dick win because we made a deal to add approximately $1 million (not sure about the buyout yet), or did you win because it was a "minor transaction" inside the range of $10 million or less in pocket change that JR and the Board has when they're gallavanting about the the town? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 24, 2012 -> 09:47 PM) And last year's 7.88 ERA against all teams not named the mostly Twins' Rochester line-up. I agree Stewart will not be much more than he is now, even with Bucholtz hurt they sent him to AAA. AL East will eat him alive. Edited June 25, 2012 by Soxfest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 The reason Stewart helped this deal is because he's not a value-less player, despite the meatballish opinions that are so popular on here. He is young and has a good sinker. If he keeps it down and is consistent, he'll be an innings eater. We don't have that many guys in our system that could be a mid-to-back of rotation starter with perhaps some minor tweaking and experience. I'm happy to move him for Youkilis, but he was a better piece than I would have considered ideal. Proof that you can never please everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowand's rowdies Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) ...and if he and/or the White Sox suck in a month, we can trade him to a contender at the deadline for more than stewart/lilli anyway. someone will be more desperate than us in mid/late june. especially a team who can't add much payroll looking for a bat, he will be almost free in a month... stewart won't make it in the AL in my opinion. he's a guy who in the right situation could be a #4-#5 or ok middle reliever in the NL. ceiling of a nick masset, floor of well...awful. lilli is replaceable as a AAAA player. not a starter. why not. Edited June 25, 2012 by rowand's rowdies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I like this trade. We absolutely needed a 3rd baseman. I hate to lose Lillibridge, but I don't think Robin was playing him enough. He's a decent ballplayer. Youk can help or he can be a bust. If he's a bust we are no worse off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapzk Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (YASNY @ Jun 25, 2012 -> 01:18 AM) I like this trade. We absolutely needed a 3rd baseman. I hate to lose Lillibridge, but I don't think Robin was playing him enough. He's a decent ballplayer. Youk can help or he can be a bust. If he's a bust we are no worse off. Even if he busts that is still an improvement for the team simply due to the fact of the lack of production from the 3B spot all year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 It was funny reading some of the responses on the Sox Facebook page. "We want our guys back!" was a good one. One of the favorites was someone asking where Youkilis would play since Konerko is at 1st, Dunn is DH, and Morel is at 3rd. Didn't Morel hurt his back again? I realize these posts weren't out of stupidity but rather just they are from uninformed folks. However, a guy like KW who has had some trades that were bombs, will have a lot of people who think every trade is terrible. This one, however, is pretty damn good. I like Lillibridge, but he's not the same guy we saw 2011. Last year was certainly an outlier. And Stewart? Hey, maybe the Bo Sox can develop him into a starter, but he hasn't shown that he has the stuff. Now the big question is, will he be in the lineup tonight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 24, 2012 -> 09:59 PM) This is not a bad comparison, both needed some last minute fine tuning to really make it. The only real difference is in the details, Stewart has been kind of jerked around between relief pitching and starting pitching. He dropped his once 93+ four seamer in favor of the starter-ish sinker and never found it consistently once moved to the pen (which IMO is hard to do). There is a bit more reason to think he'll turn it around than Jeff Marquez (or hindsight is simply too clear), but it's a similar idea and really a very similar trade overall. Hopefully we make out as well as the Yankees did when we had to sell of Swisher for nothing. I actually didn't mind Stewart as much as most, but if he has to be a starter to be effective, I'm saying he's selling insurance in the next 18 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jun 24, 2012 -> 08:54 PM) Whoa! The season's over? Wow. I thought it was still June. Jeez, I'm clearly an idiot. Wow, it's 90 degrees in October! You said the worst he would do, he's already doing worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I believe that the law of conservation of Masset applies to Zach Stewart, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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