Kyyle23 Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 05:48 PM) The Padres literally gave up on Simon Castro last year and the Sox are trying to rebuild him. It would make very little sense for them to want him back. i think that post was in the same vein as my post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 05:48 PM) The Padres literally gave up on Simon Castro last year and the Sox are trying to rebuild him. It would make very little sense for them to want him back. That was a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 06:52 PM) That was a joke. I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 05:27 PM) Yeah I agree with this. I start with asking for Addison Reed and Mitchell. Settle for Mitchell and another arm. So the question then becomes, would you trade Mitchell and a reliever for Headley. No to Headley way to streaky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 07:08 PM) No to Headley way to streaky. Ah, so you prefer sucky instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 04:03 PM) Would you rather see Will Ohman or Hector Santiago in those situations? I'd honestly take Santiago, but then Ohman is replacing Santiago which won't work. Both Thornton and Santiago have the ability to get righties out, something Ohman is virtually incapable of doing. For perspective's sake, Santiago's numbers since the Oakland blow-up: 2.75 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, .194/.318/.306/.623, ~ 9 K/9, ~ 4.5 BB/9, in 19.2 IP, 16 games And the control has actually been better than that, because in his first appearance versus Cleveland after that Oakland game, he walked two and allowed a hit in 1 IP. You just simply can't trust Ohman against right handed pitching, and that's where the problem lies. If the Sox are interested in doing that at all, then they have to believe that one of Leesman, Septimo, Veal, Rodriguez, or Hernandez can handle being the second lefty out of the pen so Ohman can remain a garbage and LOOGY guy. Without knowing anything about what they throw, my gut tells me to go with Veal, but the 3 I'd look at right away would be Veal, Septimo, and Rodriguez, probably in that order. Like I said though, no idea what they offer, but there are, even for minor league and advanced age players, interesting choices among the minor league pitchers. That's if you were to even trade Thornton for Youkilis. At this point, I'd say Youkilis is worth a shot, but Thornton has more value than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 02:15 PM) I'd honestly take Santiago, but then Ohman is replacing Santiago which won't work. Both Thornton and Santiago have the ability to get righties out, something Ohman is virtually incapable of doing. For perspective's sake, Santiago's numbers since the Oakland blow-up: 2.75 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, .194/.318/.306/.623, ~ 9 K/9, ~ 4.5 BB/9, in 19.2 IP, 16 games And the control has actually been better than that, because in his first appearance versus Cleveland after that Oakland game, he walked two and allowed a hit in 1 IP. You just simply can't trust Ohman against right handed pitching, and that's where the problem lies. If the Sox are interested in doing that at all, then they have to believe that one of Leesman, Septimo, Veal, Rodriguez, or Hernandez can handle being the second lefty out of the pen so Ohman can remain a garbage and LOOGY guy. Without knowing anything about what they throw, my gut tells me to go with Veal, but the 3 I'd look at right away would be Veal, Septimo, and Rodriguez, probably in that order. Like I said though, no idea what they offer, but there are, even for minor league and advanced age players, interesting choices among the minor league pitchers. That's if you were to even trade Thornton for Youkilis. At this point, I'd say Youkilis is worth a shot, but Thornton has more value than that. Haven't looked at the splits yet, but Quintana was death to righties in the beginning this year. Maybe it has evened out. Of course, the problem is that you need him to stay in the starting rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 You just simply can't trust Ohman against right handed pitching, Well, he hasn't been to the plate since 2009, so even though he bats left, I wouldn't trust him either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 04:40 PM) Yeah I will give you that Youkilis is also overpaid. My point being, Thornton is also due $5.5 million next season. Youkilis OPS+ is 81 on the season, with a 0.0 WAR Thornton has an ERA+ of 1.33 and a WAR of 0.6. Matt Thornton as a left handed reliever, has been statistically more valuable than Kevin Youkilis, a starting position player, this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 01:15 AM) I'd honestly take Santiago, but then Ohman is replacing Santiago which won't work. Both Thornton and Santiago have the ability to get righties out, something Ohman is virtually incapable of doing. For perspective's sake, Santiago's numbers since the Oakland blow-up: 2.75 ERA, 1.22 WHIP, .194/.318/.306/.623, ~ 9 K/9, ~ 4.5 BB/9, in 19.2 IP, 16 games And the control has actually been better than that, because in his first appearance versus Cleveland after that Oakland game, he walked two and allowed a hit in 1 IP. You just simply can't trust Ohman against right handed pitching, and that's where the problem lies. If the Sox are interested in doing that at all, then they have to believe that one of Leesman, Septimo, Veal, Rodriguez, or Hernandez can handle being the second lefty out of the pen so Ohman can remain a garbage and LOOGY guy. Without knowing anything about what they throw, my gut tells me to go with Veal, but the 3 I'd look at right away would be Veal, Septimo, and Rodriguez, probably in that order. Like I said though, no idea what they offer, but there are, even for minor league and advanced age players, interesting choices among the minor league pitchers. That's if you were to even trade Thornton for Youkilis. At this point, I'd say Youkilis is worth a shot, but Thornton has more value than that. Santiago has also been taken out of the higher pressure roles that Thornton has owned for the last seven years, and put into a lot more low pressure and mop up roles. That was pretty much when his numbers came back north. I'd want to see him in some 8th inning set up roles before pronouncing him as the man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Youkilis OPS+ is 81 on the season, with a 0.0 WAR Thornton has an ERA+ of 1.33 and a WAR of 0.6. Matt Thornton as a left handed reliever, has been statistically more valuable than Kevin Youkilis, a starting position player, this season. Here's what's really sad about the situation: Morel and Hudson have combined for a -0.9 WAR, so Youkilis is more of an upgrade that what you'd give up with Thornton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Here's my thoughts on it: Is he free or close to it? Yes? Pull the trigger, might as well. No? f*** that s***, I'll buy Morel some ibuprofen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) I still don't want Youk. I'd rather get Chase Headley. Get that guy out of Petco and he'll hit 20 HR with very good on base skills. Headley's career stats away from home: .300/.366/.444, good for a wOBA of .356 and a wRC+ of 128. Oh and he's a good defender at 3B. Headley's going to take a lot more to get, but this is someone you can have for a year and a half and he'll give you 3-4 win production at a very valuable position. Edited June 21, 2012 by chw42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 08:55 AM) Here's what's really sad about the situation: Morel and Hudson have combined for a -0.9 WAR, so Youkilis is more of an upgrade that what you'd give up with Thornton. That WAR is also weighted by being much better at the beginning of the year. I would imagine that he has been negative over the last couple of months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:07 AM) I still don't want Youk. I'd rather get Chase Headley. Get that guy out of Petco and he'll hit 20 HR with very good on base skills. Headley's career stats away from home: .300/.366/.444, good for a wOBA of .356 and a wRC+ of 128. Oh and he's a good defender at 3B. Headley's going to take a lot more to get, but this is someone you can have for a year and a half and he'll give you 3-4 win production at a very valuable position. This, and if it's just Mitchell + relief prospect I think this deal would've happened already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 20, 2012 -> 05:14 PM) It would be nice. However, I do not think we have the bullets. If you were Josh Byrnes, what would you want in return? If I'm Byrnes, I want someone like Mitchell as a centerpiece, Quintana because he will kill in Petco, Nate Jones, and a lower end pitcher. If I'm KW, I try to avoid giving up Jones, but if worse comes to worse, I make this deal, possibly asking for a Stewart-like pitcher back for the sake of ML depth. Headley has less than 4 years of service time and is criminally underrated because of his team and park. Edited June 21, 2012 by Eminor3rd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:36 AM) If I'm Byrnes, I want someone like Mitchell as a centerpiece, Quintana because he will kill in Petco, Nate Jones, and a lower end pitcher. If I'm KW, I try to avoid giving up Jones, but if worse comes to worse, I make this deal, possibly asking for a Stewart-like pitcher back for the sake of ML depth. Headley has less than 4 years of service time and is criminally underrated because of his team and park. No on Quintana, maybe on Jones. I'm all for giving away somebody like Mitchell. Headley's a good player and he'll most likely be affordable once he hits free agency. He doesn't have the power to warrant big money on the market and he's a good but not great hitter. He can possibly be your 3B of the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Let's flip this around a bit. How about a trade involving Peavy and Middlebrooks as the centerpieces? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 QUOTE (Wedge @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:46 AM) Let's flip this around a bit. How about a trade involving Peavy and Middlebrooks as the centerpieces? Unless the White Sox are paying Peavy's contract, that's never gonna happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy the Clown Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I still don't want Youk. I'd rather get Chase Headley. Get that guy out of Petco and he'll hit 20 HR with very good on base skills. Headley's career stats away from home: .300/.366/.444, good for a wOBA of .356 and a wRC+ of 128. Oh and he's a good defender at 3B. Headley's going to take a lot more to get, but this is someone you can have for a year and a half and he'll give you 3-4 win production at a very valuable position. Don't have the chips to get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 If there's a Thornton for Youk deal, we better get more than Youk in return. There was a point in the season where straight up seemed fair, but Youk has ruined his own value at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 12:20 PM) Don't have the chips to get him. I think we do, I'm just not sure we want to give them up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/06/kevi...s-thursday.html Says we are likely to go after pitching Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
black jack Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 10:49 AM) Unless the White Sox are paying Peavy's contract, that's never gonna happen. I'd pay the contract and pick up the option year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 QUOTE (black jack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 12:52 PM) I'd pay the contract and pick up the option year. For Middlebrooks? That's about $30 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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