Dick Allen Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:17 PM) I just don't understand how you could be a CPA and not see the different budgets that are in play here. I am sure each area has a budget and they try to stay within those budgets. Signing Soler would probably come out of a different budget than the one intended for making in-season acquisitions. I know our Organization gets creative with money, and will pull from one area to another and vice versa, but I am not sure what you would have them do. Signing Soler is probably based on payrolls in the future and not necessarily money they have right now from which to draw against. How could you possibly not get your mind around that as an accountant? We have been told every dollar that comes in goes out. Considering the new rules for signing amatuers going into effect in a couple of weeks, wouldn't that $25-30 million that you laughingly are saying is being put aside for these kind of signings and not available for improving the major league club, most likely now be available? Dude, I know you want to argue anything I ever post, but you're really being ridiculous here. If money was available for Soler, and wasn't used, its available to help the team win this year. This has nothing to do with accounting. Do you really think Soler would have signed for no signing bonus this year? Start paying me next year, that's OK. KW: we have a chance to acquire a player that will help us win the division, but to acquire him we will have to use some of that money we were setting aside for Soler. JR: NO WAY. That money is not to be used for in season major league acquisitions. Its only for minor leaguers who may or may not help us in the future. Edited June 22, 2012 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:17 PM) I just don't understand how you could be a CPA and not see the different budgets that are in play here. I am sure each area has a budget and they try to stay within those budgets. Signing Soler would probably come out of a different budget than the one intended for making in-season acquisitions. I know our Organization gets creative with money, and will pull from one area to another and vice versa, but I am not sure what you would have them do. Signing Soler is probably based on payrolls in the future and not necessarily money they have right now from which to draw against. How could you possibly not get your mind around that as an accountant? If they can make a $25M offer to Soler they have more money than any of us think. Doesn't matter what "budget" they are pulling it from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 08:24 PM) We have been told every dollar that comes in goes out. Considering the new rules for signing amatuers going into effect in a couple of weeks, wouldn't that $25-30 million that you laughingly are saying is being put aside for these kind of signings and not available for improving the major league club, most likely now be available? Dude, I know you want to argue anything I ever post, but you're really being ridiculous here. If money was available for Soler, and wasn't used, its available to help the team win this year. This has nothing to do with accounting. No it's not, Dick...they have a freaking payroll obligation spreadsheet they work off of. They can make signings for funds that will be paid in the future based off of future expected operating incomes. It's not like they were going to sign Jorge Soler and pay him his $25 million on the spot. I'm sure they have some money available, but it's probably not a ton right now. They've got to prioritize their goals and use it expeditiously. Why else would they shed salary mid-season if it wasn't because they determined the cash targeted for that player was either better spent elsewhere or not spent at all, potentially because it doesn't exist? I think it's pretty clear that Kenny and Jerry operate "on the fly" quite a bit, with the knowledge that they can always shed some salary if need be in a pinch. I think it's fair for the investors of the team to be able to take some small portion of any revenues without "owing" that to you. They can still say they have no money and give that small percentage to the investors and not be being disingenuous. But apparently you would like them to do an anal probe of their books for your benefit. This obsession you have with the team's finances has crossed the line of ridiculous to the realm of absolute insanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 08:31 PM) If they can make a $25M offer to Soler they have more money than any of us think. Doesn't matter what "budget" they are pulling it from. First of all we don't even know they made an offer on Soler. Secondly, I am sure the investors of the Club have money they can pull from when it is necessary. That does not mean it is considered generally available rather than utilizing traditional revenue sources such as gate revenues. You guys are both being incredible. This is not a publicly traded corporation, it's a freaking privately owned baseball franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) Do either of you two have children? If your kids ask you for a new XBox do you feel obliged to tell them that you have the money because you could possibly take a loan out or put it on your credit card or pay for it with cash intended to fix the garbage disposal? Just because it is possible that you could scrape up the money in a pinch does not mean you are lying to them when you say "I don't have the money for a new XBox right now." Edited June 22, 2012 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:35 PM) First of all we don't even know they made an offer on Soler. Secondly, I am sure the investors of the Club have money they can pull from when it is necessary. That does not mean it is considered generally available rather than utilizing traditional revenue sources such as gate revenues. You guys are both being incredible. This is not a publicly traded corporation, it's a freaking privately owned baseball franchise. Why is it you always argue things like its a privately owned company we know nothing, yet you claim to know everything? If we have no idea what we are talking about, neither do you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:35 PM) First of all we don't even know they made an offer on Soler. Secondly, I am sure the investors of the Club have money they can pull from when it is necessary. That does not mean it is considered generally available rather than utilizing traditional revenue sources such as gate revenues. You guys are both being incredible. This is not a publicly traded corporation, it's a freaking privately owned baseball franchise. So because it didnt come out of Kenny's mouth that means that the sports writers who have sources are wrong about our bet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:41 PM) Why is it you always argue things like its a privately owned company we know nothing, yet you claim to know everything? If we have no idea what we are talking about, neither do you. Because my assumptions are based on all the things that are actually happening....actual payroll numbers, attendance figures, our Club's behavior compared to those similarly-situated, while yours are based entirely on your own conspiracy theories which belie almost everything that is actually occurring in reality. Their general behavior pretty much matches what they say and what the publicly available numbers say. If you're going to propose the conspiracies, it's up to you to provide a little more evidence than "Forbes said they made $14 million last year and they claim they have no money! Liars!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:43 PM) So because it didnt come out of Kenny's mouth that means that the sports writers who have sources are wrong about our bet? I wasn't aware that we had a bet, Baron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:37 PM) Do either of you two have children? If your kids ask you for a new XBox do you feel obliged to tell them that you have the money because you could possibly take a loan out or put it on your credit card or pay for it with cash intended to fix the garbage disposal? Just because it is possible that you could scrape up the money in a pinch does not mean you are lying to them when you say "I don't have the money for a new XBox right now." Wow. Worst post ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:46 PM) I wasn't aware that we had a bet, Baron. Excuse me bid. So nothing to add? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:47 PM) Wow. Worst post ever. It's a very good analogy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:47 PM) Wow. Worst post ever. Yeah that literally has nothing to do with White Sox. Unless he thinks that Jerry and company are broke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:48 PM) Excuse me bid. So nothing to add? You opened the nitpicking pandora's box, not me, my friend. No, you simply can't take a little blurb that says we were in on Soler to mean we have a secret cache of funds that Kenny is instead using to buy furniture for his home with instead of improving the club. We have a history as good as any team in baseball of adding players at the deadline for the sake of improving the club, even when it's probably against fairly long odds that we will win the division. If you have an issue with that, as many do, it should be that we are squandering available funds trying to improve the club, not hoarding potential funds for other reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:45 PM) Because my assumptions are based on all the things that are actually happening....actual payroll numbers, attendance figures, our Club's behavior compared to those similarly-situated, while yours are based entirely on your own conspiracy theories which belie almost everything that is actually occurring in reality. Their general behavior pretty much matches what they say and what the publicly available numbers say. If you're going to propose the conspiracies, it's up to you to provide a little more evidence than "Forbes said they made $14 million last year and they claim they have no money! Liars!" What are the payroll numbers? What is the Sox revenue? What are they projecting for the rest of the season? There are no conspiracy theories. I'm just sick of Sox fans taking the blame for not going to games when the Sox do fine financially. The Sox are in he top half in revenue year after year. Forbes calls them one of the most profitable teams in all of baseball the last decade. They even claim they made $10 million during last season's debacle. Yet you seem to know more because you believe KW when he tells you he can't spend a dollar when he only has fifty cents. Well good. I don't care if he spends a dollar. His in season help has been nothing but busts. But if you really believe the Sox won't use any that money they were earmarking for Soler if the right player becomes available and they have a legit shot to win, you're even more crazy than anyone thinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:52 PM) You opened the nitpicking pandora's box, not me, my friend. No, you simply can't take a little blurb that says we were in on Soler to mean we have a secret cache of funds that Kenny is instead using to buy furniture for his home with instead of improving the club. We have a history as good as any team in baseball of adding players at the deadline for the sake of improving the club, even when it's probably against fairly long odds that we will win the division. If you have an issue with that, as many do, it should be that we are squandering available funds trying to improve the club, not hoarding potential funds for other reasons. Yet you take KW saying the Sox have no funds to spend as gospel. LMAO. Just so you know he said the same thing right before he traded for Peavy, and claimed Rios, and claimed Manny and traded for Jackson. But that's because JR found some money. They can't use money they were going to pay Soler, that's for the future. Have another drink. Actually, while KW seems to make a lot of in season trades, not many of them have helped the team win that particular season. Edited June 22, 2012 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:52 PM) You opened the nitpicking pandora's box, not me, my friend. No, you simply can't take a little blurb that says we were in on Soler to mean we have a secret cache of funds that Kenny is instead using to buy furniture for his home with instead of improving the club. We have a history as good as any team in baseball of adding players at the deadline for the sake of improving the club, even when it's probably against fairly long odds that we will win the division. If you have an issue with that, as many do, it should be that we are squandering available funds trying to improve the club, not hoarding potential funds for other reasons. What does this have to do with you disputing that we bid on Soler? Which has been well documented it seems. Edited June 22, 2012 by Baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:49 PM) Yeah that literally has nothing to do with White Sox. Unless he thinks that Jerry and company are broke. That's why it was an analogy...an analogy is not meant to have anything to do literally with the actual subject of the conversation. It's an explanatory device because the audience was not understanding any literal or other means of explanation. Edited June 22, 2012 by iamshack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 08:04 PM) Isn't it a little strange KW rmentioned the attendance perhaps hurting his ability to add to the current roster only days after Peter Gammons reported the Sox offered Soler $25-30 million? Either Gammons is lying or KW is lying about being strapped for cash. Wouldn't be the first time. But I'm sure they could use more profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:54 PM) That's why it was an analogy...an analogy is not meant to have anything to do literally with the actual subject of the conversation. It's an explanatory device because the audience was not understanding any literal or other means of explanation. Or just like your entire argument. Pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:53 PM) Yet you take KW saying the Sox have no funds to spend as gospel. LMAO. I absolutely do not. I've made that abundantly clear. It's unfortunate that you don't seem to have the capacity to comprehend the entirety of my posts. The position I do take is that I do not need to audit the team's financials to understand their general financial position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:56 PM) Or just like your entire argument. Pointless. It was only apparently pointless because you aren't trying to engage in an actual debate, but instead because you are carrying out some other agenda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:49 PM) It's a very good analogy. If it is, you're saying JR has money to spend, but not to be used to help the team win this year. Its really a dumb argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baron Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:57 PM) It was only apparently pointless because you aren't trying to engage in an actual debate, but instead because you are carrying out some other agenda. I had no other agenda than to see why you didnt know that we bid on Soler. You seem to think if it doesnt come out of Kenny's mouth then we dont know. Edited June 22, 2012 by Baron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 21, 2012 -> 09:49 PM) It's a very good analogy. If it is, you're saying JR has money to spend, but not to be used to help the team win this year. Its really a dumb argument. Do you realize JR wants to win as much as anyone, and he knows his time will be up fairly soon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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