Kyyle23 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 01:15 PM) Because it's primarily a pissing contest between 3 people? If you dont like it, dont read it. I havent seen anything besides discussion. They are toe-ing the line, but none have crossed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Part of the issue is the White Sox are sort of in no man's land in terms of supply and demand. There is not enough demand to really limit supply, except in Postseason games. I do think that point is valid and should give the Sox reason to consider deeper discounts on season tickets. A higher season ticket base is the best way to decrease supply. I know in 2006-07, the Sox sold a lot of season tickets and that made the areas where I like to sit (Club level and lower box) in short supply, which forced me to decide in February-March which games I wanted to go to in order to ensure I got seats I liked. This year, I was able to wait until May to buy tickets for both of my games, and I got seats that were probably occupied by season ticket holders in earlier years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 01:22 PM) I do think that point is valid and should give the Sox reason to consider deeper discounts on season tickets. A higher season ticket base is the best way to decrease supply. I know in 2006-07, the Sox sold a lot of season tickets and that made the areas where I like to sit (Club level and lower box) in short supply, which forced me to decide in February-March which games I wanted to go to in order to ensure I got seats I liked. This year, I was able to wait until May to buy tickets for both of my games, and I got seats that were probably occupied by season ticket holders in earlier years. In essence I think that is what they are trying to do with Dynamic Pricing. They are trying to train fans into buying their tickets early so they will get them at posted ticket rates, not the bloated price they will be forced, for some reason, to charge later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuna Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Call me crazy, but I believe the attendance issue is a blessing in disguise. KW needs to be handcuffed in adding more salary at the deadline. This is just my opinion, but he needs to look at trying to get value for some of these contracts most of us thought he would never be able to move in the beginning of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Tuna @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 01:54 PM) Call me crazy, but I believe the attendance issue is a blessing in disguise. KW needs to be handcuffed in adding more salary at the deadline. This is just my opinion, but he needs to look at trying to get value for some of these contracts most of us thought he would never be able to move in the beginning of the season. It mostly means he will have to give up better prospects in order to get the financial considerations they need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuna Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 12:55 PM) It mostly means he will have to give up better prospects in order to get the financial considerations they need. I hate it that he has no regard for our future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (Tuna @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 01:57 PM) I hate it that he has no regard for our future. Not being able to take on salaries is just going to make our future more difficult if we have to trade better prospects to get players in return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuna Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 12:58 PM) Not being able to take on salaries is just going to make our future more difficult if we have to trade better prospects to get players in return. That's my point, I don't want to trade the little we have in the farm for higher priced players. I'd rather trade older guys that are performing well right now to get rid of their salaries. We may not get that much for them because of their salaries, but it's a move I'd be willing to make. If somebody told me they would give us a bag of baseballs for Rios straight up before this season started, I'd be all over it. I'm not blinded by the couple of good months he's had this year. Humber has done zilch since his perfecto, Danks/Floyd aren't doing well at all and I'm not willing to bet our future that Quintana can keep his dominance up for the rest of the year (although I pray he does). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabiness42 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I'd rather trade older guys that are performing well right now to get rid of their salaries. For the most part, the biggest salaries on this team are also the ones producing the most on the field. Konerko, Dunn, AJ, and Rios are the top four on the team in OPS. Peavy is second in starter ERA (third if you count Q). You trade any one of those guys away, you 100% eliminate any chance to win this year, and in the case of Konerko and Dunn, you probably eliminate any chance to win next year as well. Plus, any team that might consider trading for Rios or Peavy is going to take the same stance that the Sox are taking when they look to add players. They'll either take on the contract OR give good prospects in return, but they won't do both. So the Sox either get salary relief, but no talent which forces them to go right back and bid on high-priced free agents, or they remain stuck with a high payroll and players that may or may not pan out in a year or two. The people you can trade that give you significant salary relief yet don't kill your chances at winning this year are Gavin Floyd, Matt Thornton, and maybe Jesse Crain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 23k last night for a Friday night game against the Brewers with perfect weather is hard to believe. That's easily 30k in recent years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (Tuna @ Jun 22, 2012 -> 01:57 PM) I hate it that he has no regard for our future. I'm waiting for the part where we've made a move this year that is anti-future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 07:14 PM) 23k last night for a Friday night game against the Brewers with perfect weather is hard to believe. That's easily 30k in recent years. The product is not worth the cost of the entire experience. That's my opinion. Too easy to attend a minor league game if you need a ballpark fix (sights, sounds of a ballpark and a 1 dollar hot dog instead of a five buck dog). Edited June 23, 2012 by greg775 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 01:37 PM) The product is not worth the cost of the entire experience. That's my opinion. Too easy to attend a minor league game if you need a ballpark fix (sights, sounds of a ballpark and a 1 dollar hot dog instead of a five buck dog). How many games have you attended in the last 5 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 07:37 PM) The product is not worth the cost of the entire experience. That's my opinion. Too easy to attend a minor league game if you need a ballpark fix (sights, sounds of a ballpark and a 1 dollar hot dog instead of a five buck dog). Minor league games are terrible for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 02:38 PM) Minor league games are terrible for the most part. I think they're fun, but by no means an MLB replacement. It's 100% ballpark experience and 0% investment in the on field product. Even going to an MLB game in which you have no dog in the fight beats MiLB games by a longshot. I go to lots of MiLB games by the way, but seeing MLB players in person is worth every extra penny. To me, they are not comparable activities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) Should have put the stadium on the river just south of Chinatown and created a destination with outfield views of the skyline, a park along the river, and an abundance of dining/nightlife/daylife. Could have had a palace, instead we got a mall, with advertisements blocking views of housing projects - we'll get another chance, maybe, in another 25 years or so. We blew it. I have a friend from Bridgeport/Armo(u?)r Square whose dad was a big-wig in Chicago finance. My buddy (who's a bit of a racist) told me that the stadium was an anchor to the neighborhood, and not-so-subtley hinted that it helped divide the neighborhoods. My response was: "for 81 days a year, and besides, isn't that what the Dan Ryan Expressway is for?" The fact that thousands of Tigers and BoSox fans (and hundreds of thousands of other tourists) fill Wrigley and the Cubs' coffers annually makes an actual rebuild viable economically, and Theo's job much, much easier than KW's. Edited June 23, 2012 by Stan Bahnsen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 08:01 PM) How many games have you attended in the last 5 years? Several major and minor league - royals and tbones. QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 09:15 PM) Should have put the stadium on the river just south of Chinatown and created a destination with outfield views of the skyline, a park along the river, and an abundance of dining/nightlife/daylife. Could have had a palace, instead we got a mall, with advertisements blocking views of housing projects - we'll get another chance, maybe, in another 25 years or so. We blew it. I have a friend from Bridgeport/Armo(u?)r Square whose dad was a big-wig in Chicago finance. My buddy (who's a bit of a racist) told me that the stadium was an anchor to the neighborhood, and not-so-subtley hinted that it helped divide the neighborhoods. My response was: "for 81 days a year, and besides, isn't that what the Dan Ryan Expressway is for?" The fact that thousands of Tigers and BoSox fans (and hundreds of thousands of other tourists) fill Wrigley and the Cubs' coffers annually makes an actual rebuild viable economically, and Theo's job much, much easier than KW's. Great post. I heard some fan call a talk show the other day and said he'd been to 10 parks last year and they asked him to quickly rate them all and the Cell was last. He said 'the park in chicago' when he got to the Cell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 02:56 PM) Several major and minor league - royals and tbones. Great post. I heard some fan call a talk show the other day and said he'd been to 10 parks last year and they asked him to quickly rate them all and the Cell was last. He said 'the park in chicago' when he got to the Cell. If you haven't been to any White Sox games in US Cellular in the last five years, you probably have very little expertise for determining whether or not the product is worth the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 04:56 PM) Several major and minor league - royals and tbones. Great post. I heard some fan call a talk show the other day and said he'd been to 10 parks last year and they asked him to quickly rate them all and the Cell was last. He said 'the park in chicago' when he got to the Cell. Well, random jackass on a "talk show" was wrong. The Cell is not a magical place, but it's far nicer than many other parks I've been to, and definitely underrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 If I come back this summer, what are the odds of somebody on here selling me two to four tix for a game or two but they must be good seats. Is my best bet club level? Is it nirvana up in the middle level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 I don't know how you all feel but it was so nice having 30,000 in the stands. The Brewers fans were even educated on the game of baseball which made for an interesting night. Lots of drunk people in my section which was cool but there were two creepy guidos wearing white tees that were obnoxious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) To summarize: 1) The White Sox supposedly bid $25+ million on Soler, meaning they arguably have at least $5-7.5 million in reserve for this season, as the Soler contract would have required something like that in upfront money/payment/signing bonus anyway. 2) There's the possibility Gammons is not credible, but that's unlikely. For example, there were tons of rumors that AA and the Blue Jays really didn't bid as much money as the story "planted" in the press on Yu Darvish. That it was just a PR or spin move to make the fans believe that they were "back in the conversation" as a legit player on the free agent market. Of course, how would this "false story" or "Conspiracy Special" support the message that the White Sox are sending out about being poor and lacking fan support? 3) Roberto Alomar, Carl Everett (twice), Scott Dunn, Scott Schoeneweis, Freddy Garcia, Contreras, MacDougal, Geoff Blum, Riske, Sandy Alomar. Jr., Ken Griffey, Jr., Peavy, Rios, Manny Ramirez and Edwin Jackson would all support the idea that the White Sox historically have always had the money they needed to make acquisitions in June/July/August to support their teams. 4) Perhaps they've done internally marketing that actually demonstrates there's a net positive uptick in attendance/support after one of these stories makes it into the media...that the fans who are "on the fence" do go out and attend a few more games and that part of the boost in revenue is then quickly used to improve the product on the field. If this wasn't the case, why would they consistently put out these same 50 cents/$1.00 stories, especially this year in the face of the dynamic pricing debacle. Call this the "White Sox as charity/non-profit" approach, where the fans are "guilted" into supporting the team and having it continue to exist as some type of community service/philanthropic endeavor by the ownership group. I think while they are making "decent" revenue this year and still not losing money, the overall lowered attendance has gotten so bad that it can't NOT be noticed by fans and media. It's one thing to be 20th-22nd in the majors, but to be 27th and trailing teams like the Royals and Astros is pretty incredible for a team that was in sole possession of first place for 3+ weeks, and much of that time when school was out of session and the weather was decent or great. Edited June 24, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewokpelts Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 The yankees ate half of the contreras contract. In exchange for esteban loaiza for two months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 (edited) Another major consideration was the contract situation for each. Contreras, who had to waive his no-trade clause to come to Chicago, has $17,382,978 remaining on his contract. The Yankees are giving the White Sox money to cover $1 million of his $7 million salary next year and $2 million of his $8 million salary in 2006. Not nearly half....they actually took on salary overall, because Loaiza was making $4 million that season for the entire year. http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance White Sox passed the Mariners for 26th. Within hailing distance of the Astros for 25th. KC and Pittsburgh after that. Edited June 24, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pktmotion Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 QUOTE (MuckFinnesota @ Jun 23, 2012 -> 10:49 PM) I don't know how you all feel but it was so nice having 30,000 in the stands. The Brewers fans were even educated on the game of baseball which made for an interesting night. Lots of drunk people in my section which was cool but there were two creepy guidos wearing white tees that were obnoxious. Half of that were Brewers fans. I generally dislike when front office complains about attendance, but KW has an argument. We go to ~10 games every season, last night was my 3rd game so far, It's a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things but its what I can do to help. If there's fans here who haven't been to a game yet this season, do me a favor and cancel your soxtalk account and go to a game (you're going to have fun). Yes Brewer fans are cordial, knowledgable and nice; but their cheering is the last thing I want to here when the Sox are down. There were so many Brewer fans last night, you could here booing when the Sox got the benefit from a call. That drives you crazy if you're out there supporting your home team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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