2012-2013 NBA thread

[RZZZA]

I agree with GarPax then. You act like there's no such thing as chemistry in the NBA.

 

This team, as constructed, was good enough to beat the Heat had it stayed healthy. I firmly believe that.

[RZZZA]

How are the Celtics a team that found a core that worked?

 

They traded for Garnett and Allen to add to Pierce. That is the exact opposite of what you want the Bulls to do.

 

(edit)

 

I think someone deleted their post.

 

How are the Celtics NOT a team that found a core that works? Rondo/Allen/Pierce/Garnett is their core, they've been together for many years, enough time for chemistry to form. Chemistry is a huge part of why they're such a good team.

 

I don't want to be like the Knicks, who destroy and rebuild their team every single year, chasing the next big FA acquisition or big name trade.

 

Stability in an organization is very important

[Soxbadger]

Anything can happen on any given day.

 

That doesnt mean I want to take the side that has a 1% chance to win.

 

The Bulls as constructed last year, were only going to beat the Heat if everything was perfect.

 

The Heat as constructed last year, could potentially beat the Bulls even if they had an injury to 1 of the Big 3.

 

See the difference, the Bulls need the perfect season, I believe in preparing for the worst and hoping for the best. I do not believe in hoping and preparing for the best.

[Kyyle23]

My biggest problem continues to be...I can't see a mechanism where if the Bulls start tearing this thing down, they have any real path to get back up unless someone helps the team out.

 

And frankly, most of the "save us" trades that people can complain the Bulls didn't pull off (Teams taking on Deng's entire contract and passing back the 7th pick or something like that) fall into the category of "Why is this team helping the Bulls out". Amnestying Boozer and trading Noah and Deng for a fair return doesn't make the Bulls that much better...because both of those guys are between quite well paid and over-paid. If you want to clear their contracts to play free agency...you have to take very little back. If you want to take back contributing players...then you're not going to clear the kind of salary you'd need to play free agency.

 

At some point the Bulls FO is going to have to stop being p*****s and waiting for something to happen. Danny Ainge made it happen. West always made it happen, and so has Kupchak. Riley made it happen. Popovich and Buford made it happen.

 

Right in front of our eyes, Prokhorov is making it happen.

 

 

The Bulls are a top notch franchise. The fans always come, Reinsdorf never has problems at the gate like he does with the Sox. Sometime he is going to have to say "Do this Paxson, I want a championship." And that time needs to come soon. You cannot wait for another MJ to will the franchise to multiple titles.

[RZZZA]

Anything can happen on any given day.

 

That doesnt mean I want to take the side that has a 1% chance to win.

 

The Bulls as constructed last year, were only going to beat the Heat if everything was perfect.

 

The Heat as constructed last year, could potentially beat the Bulls even if they had an injury to 1 of the Big 3.

 

See the difference, the Bulls need the perfect season, I believe in preparing for the worst and hoping for the best. I do not believe in hoping and preparing for the best.

 

I definitely think the Bulls could have survived an injury to Boozer, or even to Noah. Not to Rose though. I don't think the Heat could have survived an injury to Lebron either.

 

Fact is, take any team in the NBA and remove their best player and they stop being contenders.

 

Imo the Bulls had a much greater chance than just 1% to beat the Heat.

[Kyyle23]

How are the Celtics NOT a team that found a core that works? Rondo/Allen/Pierce/Garnett is their core, they've been together for many years, enough time for chemistry to form. Chemistry is a huge part of why they're such a good team.

 

I don't want to be like the Knicks, who destroy and rebuild their team every single year, chasing the next big FA acquisition or big name trade.

 

Stability in an organization is very important

 

Again, this chemistry you are talking about wasnt developed. It was put together. The Celtics won in their first try together, they havent won it since. If this core keeps getting better, why havent they won more titles since then?

 

Because they are getting older. Which is exactly what this bulls team will be when Rose is back to being himself(hopefully), two years older.

[RZZZA]

I think Bulls fans right now have a very fatalistic mindset, that just because it didn't work last year, that it can never work as constructed. I do not believe that. I belive in my team. I think we were damn good. No we don't have 3 superstars, but we had a great team, a tough team, the best defensive team. Everybody is so high on OKC and their 3 stars and how great their offense was. Well, what happened to them? Tell me about it. What happened?

 

 

[Kyyle23]

I agree with GarPax then. You act like there's no such thing as chemistry in the NBA.

 

This team, as constructed, was good enough to beat the Heat had it stayed healthy. I firmly believe that.

 

A punchers chance, nothing more. the Bulls would have had to be absolutely perfect to take out the Heat this season

[Soxbadger]

How are the Celtics NOT a team that found a core that works? Rondo/Allen/Pierce/Garnett is their core, they've been together for many years, enough time for chemistry to form. Chemistry is a huge part of why they're such a good team.

 

I don't want to be like the Knicks, who destroy and rebuild their team every single year, chasing the next big FA acquisition or big name trade.

 

Stability in an organization is very important

 

Because half the core you mentioned was added via trade.

 

Garnett trade:

 

On July 31, 2007, Garnett was traded to the Boston Celtics in exchange for Al Jefferson, Ryan Gomes, Sebastian Telfair, Gerald Green, Theo Ratliff, cash considerations, Boston's 2009 first-round draft pick (top 3 protected) and the 2009 first-round pick Minnesota had traded to Boston in the Ricky Davis-Wally Szczerbiak trade of 2006. The 7-for-1 deal constitutes the largest number of players traded for a single player in league history

 

Ray Allen- June 29, 2007

 

The Boston Celtics acquired guard Ray Allen from the Seattle Supersonics on Thursday night for Delonte West, Wally Szczerbiak and the rights to the 2007 NBA Draft's No. 5 overall pick -- Georgetown forward Jeff Green. Boston also gets the rights to the Sonics' 35th pick -- LSU's Glen Davis.

 

See how they added 2 superstars in a 1 month span?

 

The year before they added Allen and Garnett the Celtics were 24–58.

 

The year after 66-16 and won a championship.

 

How were they together for many years and won a championship?

 

They were brought together in the summer and won a championship the same year.

 

Its the exact opposite of what you want.

 

[RZZZA]

You got me concerning the Celtics. Still believe in chemistry though. Look at the Spurs. Or the Lakers.

Edited July 3, 2012 by RZZZA

[Balta1701]

At some point the Bulls FO is going to have to stop being p*****s and waiting for something to happen. Danny Ainge made it happen. West always made it happen, and so has Kupchak. Riley made it happen. Popovich and Buford made it happen.

 

Right in front of our eyes, Prokhorov is making it happen.

 

 

The Bulls are a top notch franchise. The fans always come, Reinsdorf never has problems at the gate like he does with the Sox. Sometime he is going to have to say "Do this Paxson, I want a championship." And that time needs to come soon. You cannot wait for another MJ to will the franchise to multiple titles.

These are great comparisons. In almost every one of those cases, someone helped a team out.

 

The Lakers got Gasol for Scraps.

The Heat put themselves together so that titles wouldn't be so hard.

Prokhorov only gets a championship team if Orlando helps him out...he can't possibly do so otherwise.

 

The only one that didn't...was the assembly of the Celtics...where both Minny and Seattle got pretty fair deals, with AL Jefferson and Jeff Green as the centerpieces along with a lot of cap space. The Bulls really can't offer either significant cap space, young cheap talent, or a top 10 draft pick in the next draft.

 

I think that makes the case pretty well that the Bulls need some other team to help them out if they're going to be able to take another step.

[RZZZA]

These are great comparisons. In almost every one of those cases, someone helped a team out.

 

The Lakers got Gasol for Scraps.

The Heat put themselves together so that titles wouldn't be so hard.

Prokhorov only gets a championship team if Orlando helps him out...he can't possibly do so otherwise.

 

I think that makes the case pretty well that the Bulls need some other team to help them out if they're going to be able to take another step.

 

Spurs?

 

There's more than one way to build a championship franchise. Some teams do it through free agency and trade, others do it from within.

 

For every case of successful free agency and trade there's a case where it hurt a franchise too. Look at the Knicks.

[Balta1701]

Spurs?

 

There's more than one way to build a championship franchise. Some teams do it through free agency and trade, others do it from within.

 

For every case of successful free agency and trade there's a case where it hurt a franchise too. Look at the Knicks.

The Spurs of course...got pretty lucky in the first place when Robinson went down for a year and they wound up with the #1 pick out of it, thus teaming Duncan and Robinson in the same frontcourt.

 

Later then...they stole a couple key guys in later rounds...Ginobili and Parker. The Bulls might have something with Mirotic, but that's at best 2 years away. And I'm pretty sure the Bulls gave away a ton of 2nd round picks trying to build this roster.

[Kyyle23]

I think Bulls fans right now have a very fatalistic mindset, that just because it didn't work last year, that it can never work as constructed. I do not believe that. I belive in my team. I think we were damn good. No we don't have 3 superstars, but we had a great team, a tough team, the best defensive team. Everybody is so high on OKC and their 3 stars and how great their offense was. Well, what happened to them? Tell me about it. What happened?

 

Yet you sit here and say the Bulls would beat the Heat, when you just watched the Heat completely dismantle the best offense in the NBA.

 

The fans dont have a fatalistic mindset, they see that everything right 2 years ago and it wasnt enough. Last year everything went horribly wrong and they got bounced in the 1st round. It is reality, RZZZA, the Bulls have to restructure this team, and Derrick needs some real help, not a 36 year old corpse of a former championship team.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

These are great comparisons. In almost every one of those cases, someone helped a team out.

 

The Lakers got Gasol for Scraps.

The Heat put themselves together so that titles wouldn't be so hard.

Prokhorov only gets a championship team if Orlando helps him out...he can't possibly do so otherwise.

 

The only one that didn't...was the assembly of the Celtics...where both Minny and Seattle got pretty fair deals, with AL Jefferson and Jeff Green as the centerpieces along with a lot of cap space. The Bulls really can't offer either significant cap space, young cheap talent, or a top 10 draft pick in the next draft.

 

I think that makes the case pretty well that the Bulls need some other team to help them out if they're going to be able to take another step.

 

If you arent looking, then nobody will be there to help you out. When will the Bulls actually pull off a deal? Please, let me know when it happens.

[RZZZA]

I believe that luck plays a part in any sports victory or defeat. You need luck just to stay healthy. Yes, luck is important. But it's not anything you can plan for.

 

All in all I think the Bulls FO did a very good job. They got spurned by FA (Lebron/Wade/Bosh), nobody ever wants to come here (Dwight), but this FO has managed to put together an elite team regardless.

 

Some fans of some teams (Kings, Raptors, Wizards, etc) never see a team thats even half as successful as we are. They go for years and years and years watching crap team after crap team.

 

All things considered I think we ought to be thankful.

Edited July 3, 2012 by RZZZA

[RZZZA]

Yet you sit here and say the Bulls would beat the Heat, when you just watched the Heat completely dismantle the best offense in the NBA.

 

The fans dont have a fatalistic mindset, they see that everything right 2 years ago and it wasnt enough. Last year everything went horribly wrong and they got bounced in the 1st round. It is reality, RZZZA, the Bulls have to restructure this team, and Derrick needs some real help, not a 36 year old corpse of a former championship team.

 

The Heat did not dismantle the best offense in the NBA, they dismantled their defense. Big difference.

 

OKC had 3 stars but they could hardly do any better against the Heat than we did! Think about that.

 

Maybe this team isn't as bad as people think. I'm sure of it, infact. I'm just trying to convince you guys of that fact.

 

[Balta1701]

If you arent looking, then nobody will be there to help you out. When will the Bulls actually pull off a deal? Please, let me know when it happens.

When someone offers them the kind of silly deal that the other teams got?

[Kyyle23]

The Heat did not dismantle the best offense in the NBA, they dismantled their defense. Big difference.

 

OKC had 3 stars but they could hardly do any better against the Heat than we did! Think about that.

 

Maybe this team isn't as bad as people think. I'm sure of it, infact. I'm just trying to convince you guys of that fact.

 

Are you kidding me? Harden completely disappeared! Perkins and Ibaka couldnt stay in the game long enough to make an impact, in almost every game, Kevin Durant was constantly bothered and even though he was scoring, he was taking tons of shots to get points. Westbrook was good, but even he was doing some stupid things and making mind boggling turnovers

 

The Thunder offensive rhythm and fastbreak offense was completely thrown off by the Heat

[Kyyle23]

When someone offers them the kind of silly deal that the other teams got?

 

Sure Balta. whatever you say

[RZZZA]

Yeah if we can trade rape a team like the Lakers do then of course we should do it. I just don't think there's any need to blow this team up like some people think we should.

 

Keep the core of Rose/Lu/Noah, extend Taj. Anyone else I'm open to trading. Boozer will be amnestied soon and Mirotic will take his place. Use that cap room to hopefully find a star SG.

[RZZZA]

Are you kidding me? Harden completely disappeared! Perkins and Ibaka couldnt stay in the game long enough to make an impact, in almost every game, Kevin Durant was constantly bothered and even though he was scoring, he was taking tons of shots to get points. Westbrook was good, but even he was doing some stupid things and making mind boggling turnovers

 

The Thunder offensive rhythm and fastbreak offense was completely thrown off by the Heat

 

 

offenses dismantle defenses, and defenses stop offenses.

 

You said the Heat offense dismantled the Thunder offense, which didn't make sense to me.

 

The Thunder could not guard the Heat well enough, and the Heat did a very good job guarding OKC. Simplistically speaking, that was the difference in that series.

 

This is my point though: people bemoan the fact that we don't have 3 stars like OKC does and they bemoan the fact that our offense isnt as good as theirs. But for all the "Grass is greener" talk, OKC couldn't do any better against the Heat than we did!

 

 

 

[Balta1701]

Sure Balta. whatever you say

You know what making moves just to make moves reminds me of? It's what Orlando's spent the last 5 years doing or what Cleveland was doing trying to make James happy.

 

They had a roster that was a step below championship caliber, and if they stayed pat they had an outside shot at things. But that wasnt' enough to keep their star happy or really push themselves into a championship team.

 

So what did they start doing? They started gambling...taking the assets they had and trying to turn them into something that could help. That's why Cleveland wound up with Shaq. That's why Orlando wound up trading for Turkoglu again. Thats' why Orlando wound up trading for Arenas. That's why Orlando traded for Vince Carter. They had to make a move somehow, but they didn't have assets to trade...so they did the big contract for big contract swap.

 

That's right where the Bulls are now. They simply don't have the assets to make a major deal. They won't have a top 10 pick until 2015+, the would have difficulty coming up with an expiring deal (although they could hypothetically do so if they packaged Hamilton, Korver, and Watson), and if they tried to turn the expiring they have into something, it'd involve taking on something like Joe Johnson's awful contract.

[Balta1701]

Yeah if we can trade rape a team like the Lakers do then of course we should do it. I just don't think there's any need to blow this team up like some people think we should.

 

Keep the core of Rose/Lu/Noah, extend Taj. Anyone else I'm open to trading. Boozer will be amnestied soon and Mirotic will take his place. Use that cap room to hopefully find a star SG.

Rose + Lu + Noah + Taj + Mirotic means the Bulls are over the cap.

[Kyyle23]

offenses dismantle defenses, and defenses stop offenses.

 

You said the Heat offense dismantled the Thunder offense, which didn't make sense to me.

 

The Thunder could not guard the Heat well enough, and the Heat did a very good job guarding OKC. Simplistically speaking, that was the difference in that series.

 

This is my point though: people bemoan the fact that we don't have 3 stars like OKC does and they bemoan the fact that our offense isnt as good as theirs. But for all the "Grass is greener" talk, OKC couldn't do any better against the Heat than we did!

 

 

really? I said the Heat Offense? Read it again, I said the HEAT