2012-2013 NBA thread

[Steve9347]

You'd think he would be like "Okay, I'm older, have less speed if that's possible, and even less quickness, I should develop a deadly jump shot, and become a great 3 point shooter"...

 

instead he's gotten WORSE at that as well.

You'd think someone in the Bulls' front office would care more about improving the team than pandering to the meatheads and re-signing "CAPTAIN KIRK".

[RZZZA]

So we are just going to ignore your preseason predictions for Hinrich to actually be a good NBA player and blame the Bulls issues on two of the 3 or 4 guys on the team that have actually played good basketball? Starting caliber Nazr Mohammed looks awesome btw.

 

Theres still time for kirk to play better. Its only been like 16 games. Despite his poor offense he still defends well and sets up the offense well. Hes like a more versatile bogans. The way hes shootng now hes def not worth the contract but I have hope that he will start shooting better.

 

As for naz...he cant do anything if thibs wont play him. Lets not ignore all the things I was RIGHT about

[Steve9347]

Theres still time for kirk to play better. Its only been like 16 games. Despite his poor offense he still defends well and sets up the offense well. Hes like a more versatile bogans. The way hes shootng now hes def not worth the contract but I have hope that he will start shooting better.

 

As for naz...he cant do anything if thibs wont play him. Lets not ignore all the things I was RIGHT about

Good God, man. Name one thing you were right about in your preseason slurp fest? You said not to ignore them? Name one thing.

 

Also, since when is dribbling around the top of the key for 15 seconds representative of "sets up the offense well". From "he'll average close to a double double with a block" to "a more versatile bogans".

 

LOLTROLL

[RZZZA]

Good god man, relax.

[RZZZA]

One thing I was right about has already been named. I called Jimmy Butler more athletic than Ronnie Brewer, there's your one thing.

 

Besides that, I praised the Nate Robinson signing when most people here bashed it. For the minimum we paid him he's looking like a very nice pick up.

 

Just in general I said that Butler could come in and do Ronnie's job as good if not better than Ronnie. I still believe that, but Thibs isn't giving Jimmy a fair shot. Even with Rip injured Jimmy is still getting like 12 minutes per game, which is just ridiculous for a player of his capability and smarts. He's playing Noah and Deng 40 minutes per game, which again is ridiculous. Many people here, again, bashed me for saying we wouldn't miss Brewer much.

 

And Kirk Hinrich is averaging 5.6 assists to 2 turnovers, quite good. Setting up the offense is one thing he does do well, better than any other PG we have. With Kirk and Noah and Boozer and Deng on the floor our ball movement is the best it could possibly be with this roster.

 

Would be even better if Deng could stop turning the ball over and Kirk could find a consistent jumper. But like I said, it's still early and I'm holding out hope that Kirks offense picks up

Edited December 6, 2012 by RZZZA

[ZoomSlowik]

The Bulls suck right now outside of Deng and Noah. The end.

[RZZZA]

Even Deng kinda sucks right now.

[Steve9347]

One thing I was right about has already been named. I called Jimmy Butler more athletic than Ronnie Brewer, there's your one thing.

 

Besides that, I praised the Nate Robinson signing when most people here bashed it. For the minimum we paid him he's looking like a very nice pick up.

 

Just in general I said that Butler could come in and do Ronnie's job as good if not better than Ronnie. I still believe that, but Thibs isn't giving Jimmy a fair shot. Even with Rip injured Jimmy is still getting like 12 minutes per game, which is just ridiculous for a player of his capability and smarts. He's playing Noah and Deng 40 minutes per game, which again is ridiculous. Many people here, again, bashed me for saying we wouldn't miss Brewer much.

 

And Kirk Hinrich is averaging 5.6 assists to 2 turnovers, quite good. Setting up the offense is one thing he does do well, better than any other PG we have. With Kirk and Noah and Boozer and Deng on the floor our ball movement is the best it could possibly be with this roster.

 

Would be even better if Deng could stop turning the ball over and Kirk could find a consistent jumper. But like I said, it's still early and I'm holding out hope that Kirks offense picks up

[ZoomSlowik]

Even Deng kinda sucks right now.

 

Kirk Hinrich sucks. Carlos Boozer sucks. The bench sucks. Luol Deng does not suck. He's averaging 18-7 with a respectable true shooting percentage. If the team had a PG that could break down the defense at all and do something besides wait for guys to come off screens, Deng wouldn't need to try to create shots.

[RZZZA]

My problem with Deng is: he turns the ball over too much and his 3pt% has gone way down from previous years.

 

We have to hold Lu to a higher standard than most everyone else because he's our all-star and one of our highest paid players and supposedly our #2 or #3 option. (when Derrick is here anyway, now he needs to act more like a #1)

 

He's got to play better than he has been.

Edited December 6, 2012 by RZZZA

[ZoomSlowik]

My problem with Deng is: he turns the ball over too much and his 3pt% has gone way down from previous years.

 

We have to hold Lu to a higher standard than most everyone else because he's our all-star and one of our highest paid players and supposedly our #2 or #3 option. (when Derrick is here anyway, now he needs to act more like a #1)

 

He's got to play better than he has been.

 

This is total crap. A few weeks ago, he was a golden god in your eyes that can do no wrong. Now he's actually playing well and it's not enough, because god forbid the blame gets placed where it belongs.

 

His turnovers are up because their stud PG is out and he has to make do with guys that have no ability to create for others at the position. Deng isn't a shot-creator by nature, but he has to do it because he's the closest thing this clusterf*** of a backcourt has to a shot-creator. He's done pretty damn well given the circumstances, it's a miracle he's not shooting 40%.

 

And his 3-point percentage is down? Seriously? He's a career .336 shooter that's at .314 for the season. WOW, what a huge drop!

 

I seem to remember being called a "bad fan" for criticizing the Bulls and not drinking the Kool-Aid earlier in the year. Now you've finally come around and realized that everything isn't sunshine and rainbows with the Bulls, but unfortunately you're directing it in the wrong place. Deng is one of the few things going right at the moment.

 

 

[Steve9347]

I seem to remember being called a "bad fan" for criticizing the Bulls and not drinking the Kool-Aid earlier in the year. Now you've finally come around and realized that everything isn't sunshine and rainbows with the Bulls, but unfortunately you're directing it in the wrong place. Deng is one of the few things going right at the moment.

:wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:

[RZZZA]

He's still a golden God in my eyes, my favorite player. But nothing wrong with stating areas you need to improve on.

 

and I'm looking at hoopdata statistics where it says Lu is shooting 30% from 3 for the year. http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Luol%20Deng

 

One of these sites we're using didn't update the latest game it seems

 

Lu is scoring well but I don't think he's playing well enough. I mentioned 2 areas where he's hurt our team, some of those turnovers occurred late in games where it was a huge play.

 

It's important to give credit where credit is due, Lu is shooting well, his TS% is improved, his FT% has improved, and all on higher USG.

 

But lets look at the full picture, his Ast:To ratio has gotten worse and his 3PT% has decreased

 

It's true when you say Lu shouldn't have to be doing this stuff, he shouldn't HAVE to try and go iso and dribble into traffic and putting himself in all these bad situations where he hasn't historically succeeded.

 

But neither should any of these guys have to step up their games to make up for the absence of Rose then, it's unfair that one guy gets injured and everyone's role has to change. If you say one guy shouldn't be in this position then you have to apply that for everyone.

 

The fact is that these guys are in this position and they all have to step their games up. Look at Noah. He's never been a consistent scorer with a go-to move in the paint or a jump shot, but he made a concerted effort to try and be that this season.

 

of course his rebounding is down, and that's something that's fair to criticize too.

 

and I don't know if you're a proponent of PER or not, but PER kinda shows what I'm saying too. Noah's PER is at 18 and Dengs is at 15

Edited December 6, 2012 by RZZZA

[Steve9347]

...and obviously the more versatile Keith Bogans will get to that double-double with a block range and we'll be good to go.

[RZZZA]

Probably not, we'll be good to go when Derrick Rose gets back and Kirk can be the bench PG

 

he can get his double double off the bench

Edited December 6, 2012 by RZZZA

[ZoomSlowik]

Hoopdata has it at 15 games so it's TWO games behind.

 

Noah's rebounding is actually up, though that's more due to minutes. The rate's down but it's still over 10/40. You're REALLY nitpicking if you think that's a major issue, especially while glossing over much bigger issues.

 

PER is a joke, it doesn't factor in defense (except for steal/block rates, which are highly mis-leading) is largely usage based and not good for comparing between different positions. It tends to favor bigs, which is why Noah is 20th at center and Deng is 22nd at SF despite a huge difference in Hollinger's mediocre stat.

Edited December 6, 2012 by ZoomSlowik

[RZZZA]

I said Noah's rebounding is down.

 

and thank you, always such a pleasure to talk with you guys

[ZoomSlowik]

I said Noah's rebounding is down.

 

and thank you, always such a pleasure to talk with you guys

 

I said I was editing because I can't read, damn it!

[Steve9347]

I said Noah's rebounding is down.

 

and thank you, always such a pleasure to talk with you guys

Not trying to be mean, sorry, you seemed like you could take it. - just admit when you're wrong and it's ok. Digging your hole deeper and deeper about s***ty players just doesn't make sense.

[ZoomSlowik]

It's true when you say Lu shouldn't have to be doing this stuff, he shouldn't HAVE to try and go iso and dribble into traffic and putting himself in all these bad situations where he hasn't historically succeeded.

 

But neither should any of these guys have to step up their games to make up for the absence of Rose then, it's unfair that one guy gets injured and everyone's role has to change. If you say one guy shouldn't be in this position then you have to apply that for everyone.

 

The fact is that these guys are in this position and they all have to step their games up. Look at Noah. He's never been a consistent scorer with a go-to move in the paint or a jump shot, but he made a concerted effort to try and be that this season.

 

When your best player gets hurt, things are always going to change. If Kirk were anything approaching a competent PG, it wouldn't be an issue. Notice that Deng didn't have turnover issues when Kirk was here before and a decent option.

 

Unfortunately he's not at this point in his career, so guys like Deng and Noah have to try to create more offensively.

Edited December 6, 2012 by ZoomSlowik

[RZZZA]

When your best player gets hurt, things are always going to change. If Kirk were anything approaching a competent PG, it wouldn't be an issue. Notice that Deng didn't have turnover issues when Kirk was here before and a decent option.

 

Unfortunately he's not at this point in his career, so guys like Deng and Noah have to try to create more offensively.

 

That's one way to look at it. But I don't know how fair it is to just put all the blame on Kirk. We have 3 Pgs on the roster and none of them are what you would call complete players at the position. Infact we've had a severe lack of 'two-way' players on the Bulls for many years. We have either guys who are good on one end or good on the other but not both. Everyone has to step up and evolve their game. Some guys are achieving that better than others.

 

 

These guys knew they'd have to assume control of the team and do more, it isn't a surprise to them that they would have to play outside their comfort zone this season no matter who the Bulls got at PG. They're smart vets. Personally I'm really impressed with Noah, I think he's the guy who stepped up the most. I hope he keeps taking more shots and working on his offensive game. That'll really help us a lot once Derrick gets back to MVP level form

.

[ZoomSlowik]

That's one way to look at it. But I don't know how fair it is to just put all the blame on Kirk. We have 3 Pgs on the roster and none of them are what you would call complete players at the position. Infact we've had a severe lack of 'two-way' players on the Bulls for many years. We have either guys who are good on one end or good on the other but not both. Everyone has to step up and evolve their game. Some guys are achieving that better than others.

 

 

These guys knew they'd have to assume control of the team and do more, it isn't a surprise to them that they would have to play outside their comfort zone this season no matter who the Bulls got at PG. They're smart vets. Personally I'm really impressed with Noah, I think he's the guy who stepped up the most. I hope he keeps taking more shots and working on his offensive game. That'll really help us a lot once Derrick gets back to MVP level form

.

 

Because he starts and was given a pretty decent contract to be that guy and he isn't. I suppose you can partially blame Nate too, though it's certainly not Teague's fault when he barely sees the floor.

Edited December 6, 2012 by ZoomSlowik

[RZZZA]

What were our other options at the position?

[ZoomSlowik]

What were our other options at the position?

 

That's not really the point, you weren't going to find another Derrick Rose for the MLE in free agency.

 

The point is that there is a very obvious reason why Deng (and Noah, who's only .2 TO per game behind Deng) has an unusually high turnover rate this season, and that the team didn't have to use their full MLE on a guy that everyone knew wasn't anything more than a stopgap.

Edited December 6, 2012 by ZoomSlowik

[Steve9347]

That's not really the point, you weren't going to find another Derrick Rose for the MLE in free agency.

 

The point is that there is a very obvious reason why Deng (and Noah, who's only .2 TO per game behind Deng) has an unusually high turnover rate this season, and that the team didn't have to use their full MLE on a guy that everyone knew wasn't anything more than a stopgap.

Except RZZZZA

 

10 points, 10 dimes, 1 block, all day.