2012-2013 NBA thread

[Balta1701]

You have to expect injuries from certain guys on the Bulls. Noah doesn't play full seasons. Deng probably should be expected sometime as well.

If the schedule I thought was going to happen, Rose back sometime in Early Feb., came true, then Hinrich being banged up for much of February wouldn't be the killer that it has been.

[whitesoxfan99]

Steph Curry putting on an unbelievably show on ESPN.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Steph Curry putting on an unbelievably show on ESPN.

 

Even better than the show Harden put on against The Thunder last week. The PG position is just too much now. I remember back in the day Mookie Blalock was considered an all-star caliber PG. lol.

[Boogua]

Even better than the show Harden put on against The Thunder last week. The PG position is just too much now. I remember back in the day Mookie Blalock was considered an all-star caliber PG. lol.

He made one all-star game. You can think that wings are just better now, but it just looks that way because of all the rule changes. You probably know that, but I just don't know why you would make a statement trying to compare eras when the game is so different. Even Bill Simmons wrote in his "big book of basketball" that Kevin Johnson would likely average 30-15 post-2004.

 

Fun fact: Another PG that scored 54 points in a game was Damon Stoudamire. It happened in 2005 and he was 31 at the time. Point guards are just too much now.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Boogua

[Jake]

Derrick can shut the f*** up. You're 24 years old and soon as we gave you a coach and a team, you choked in the Eastern Conference Finals with a lead against Miami. He has no idea what another year, a role player that fit better, or perhaps just better play on his end could have made all of the b****ing from his "people" moot. Just get healthy and shut up until your contract is up and see where you are then. We have Luol Deng, Joakim Noah, Carlos Boozer, and Taj Gibson on market value or better contracts -- it would sure be nice to get guys below market value for the sake of our cap, but for now you have a damn solid supporting cast. Why can't you be MVP Derrick? MVP's win with a supporting cast this good. His memory seems so short since the last season he played healthy we had a legit shot to beat Miami and we lost it in a single playoff series...that series loss has defined our franchise to the fans and apparently to Derrick as well if we believe his people speak for him.

 

Now I'm not hating, he only had one shot at it in the first year with a new coach and a big new face in the lineup and he himself has plenty of room for growth. I'm one that believes that this squad with Derrick could be able to win the Finals. With that said, he needs to look in the god damn mirror before he wants to start throwing his weight around to pressure the FO. You aren't LeBron, buddy.

[Jordan4life_2007]

He made one all-star game. You can think that wings are just better now, but it just looks that way because of all the rule changes. You probably know that, but I just don't know why you would make a statement trying to compare eras when the game is so different. Even Bill Simmons wrote in his "big book of basketball" that Kevin Johnson would likely average 30-15 post-2004.

 

Fun fact: Another PG that scored 54 points in a game was Damon Stoudamire. It happened in 2005 and he was 31 at the time. Point guards are just too much now.

 

Give it up, dude. the PG position is the most stacked it's ever been in the history of the game. And it's not all attributed to rule changes. They're bigger, stronger, more athletic and more diverse than 20 years ago, easy. Kevin Johnson average 30 a game? Not without a jumper, let alone a 3-point shot. lol@15 assists. the pace those suns teams played on dwarfs any in today's game. he wouldn't sniff 15 assists.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Derrick can shut the f*** up. You're 24 years old and soon as we gave you a coach and a team, you choked in the Eastern Conference Finals with a lead against Miami. He has no idea what another year, a role player that fit better, or perhaps just better play on his end could have made all of the b****ing from his "people" moot. Just get healthy and shut up until your contract is up and see where you are then. We have Luol Deng, Joakim Noah, Carlos Boozer, and Taj Gibson on market value or better contracts -- it would sure be nice to get guys below market value for the sake of our cap, but for now you have a damn solid supporting cast. Why can't you be MVP Derrick? MVP's win with a supporting cast this good. His memory seems so short since the last season he played healthy we had a legit shot to beat Miami and we lost it in a single playoff series...that series loss has defined our franchise to the fans and apparently to Derrick as well if we believe his people speak for him.

 

Now I'm not hating, he only had one shot at it in the first year with a new coach and a big new face in the lineup and he himself has plenty of room for growth. I'm one that believes that this squad with Derrick could be able to win the Finals. With that said, he needs to look in the god damn mirror before he wants to start throwing his weight around to pressure the FO. You aren't LeBron, buddy.

 

miami is an inexplicable LeBron choke job in the finals from two rings in two years together. They're not even trying and they're already a lock to get to the finals again this year. Rose is no dummy. He knows the Bulls can't see the heat. I have no problem at all with rose, even if he's not doing so directly, calling out the bulls sissy, do-nothing front office.

[Boogua]

Give it up, dude. the PG position is the most stacked it's ever been in the history of the game. And it's not all attributed to rule changes. They're bigger, stronger, more athletic and more diverse than 20 years ago, easy. Kevin Johnson average 30 a game? Not without a jumper, let alone a 3-point shot. lol@15 assists. the pace those suns teams played on dwarfs any in today's game. he wouldn't sniff 15 assists.

Not without a jumper? Jesus Christ. Okay. We really don't need to have this argument. Agree to disagree.

[ZoomSlowik]

Give it up, dude. the PG position is the most stacked it's ever been in the history of the game. And it's not all attributed to rule changes. They're bigger, stronger, more athletic and more diverse than 20 years ago, easy. Kevin Johnson average 30 a game? Not without a jumper, let alone a 3-point shot. lol@15 assists. the pace those suns teams played on dwarfs any in today's game. he wouldn't sniff 15 assists.

 

It's a good group right now, but it's not like every one of them is 6'5", blazing quick with great hops and can shoot the lights out. They all have their flaws.

 

KJ was listed at 6'1" 180. The best PG in the league right now is listed at 6'0" 175. HUGE difference.

 

Added on edit- I'm not arguing the KJ 30-15 part, that's purely speculation and not a productive line of discussion. My only comment is it's not leaps and bounds different outside of a couple of outliers athletically. It's not like the NFL where we would be looking at 220 pound linemen.

Edited February 28, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[Quin]

If anyone doesn't think this is the Golden Era of the Point Guard, they're wrong. It's like the 90's with Centers.

[Boogua]

If anyone doesn't think this is the Golden Era of the Point Guard, they're wrong. It's like the 90's with Centers.

In terms of overall number of PGs that can take over a game and is a difference maker in today's NBA? Sure. The rules have made it a golden era for PGs. Especially the score first combo guard listed at PG like Rose (who I love), Westbrook, Jennings, Curry, etc.

 

I just think it's funny that today's PGs are so much more athletic and so great and blah, blah, blah, but the two best PGs in the NBA are both small and have average athleticism (Paul and Parker).

[Quin]

In terms of overall number of PGs that can take over a game and is a difference maker in today's NBA? Sure. The rules have made it a golden era for PGs. Especially the score first combo guard listed at PG like Rose (who I love), Westbrook, Jennings, Curry, etc.

 

I just think it's funny that today's PGs are so much more athletic and so great and blah, blah, blah, but the two best PGs in the NBA are both small and have average athleticism (Paul and Parker).

 

Average...? Paul and Parker are both insanely fast players.

[Boogua]

Average...? Paul and Parker are both insanely fast players.

Insanely fast? Paul has had knee problems for a while (including surgery) and Parker is about to be 31 and has been in the league 11 years. You seriously think they're insanely fast? They were at points in their careers, but they're pretty average for PGs right now.

 

They can both get to where they want on the floor because they're both smart (which is huge, think Nash in his heyday), have good quickness, can hit an open jumper, and the rules help with penetration.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Insanely fast? Paul has had knee problems for a while (including surgery) and Parker is about to be 31 and has been in the league 11 years. You seriously think they're insanely fast? They were at points in their careers, but they're pretty average for PGs right now.

 

They can both get to where they want on the floor because they're both smart (which is huge, think Nash in his heyday), have good quickness, can hit an open jumper, and the rules help with penetration.

 

Are you sure you're only 25? Because you simply wreak of the typical old, creaky, fart that refuses to let go of the past and pigeon hole anything good about the present.

[RockRaines]

Wasnt this debate about 4 pages ago?

[southsider2k5]

Wasnt this debate about 4 pages ago?

 

Debate never dies on Soxtalk

 

Signed #teamanderson

[Boogua]

Are you sure you're only 25? Because you simply wreak of the typical old, creaky, fart that refuses to let go of the past and pigeon hole anything good about the present.

Positive I'm only 25. I'm not really sure why you quoted me there if you weren't going to comment about anything in my post, besides questioning my age. I didn't even talk about the past there. I talked about current players and how they're able to succeed. I think both of those guys would be good in any era, by the way.

 

E: I also said earlier in the thread that I thought today's basketball was really entertaining, especially with all the storylines. I can appreciate today's NBA. I just get upset when people try to take a shot at the 90s when there are tons of stats that show how much easier the game was post-2004 on wings. Michael Redd has 2 50 point games, Jamal Crawford 3 I think, Tony Parker has done it, Deron Williams, Damon Stoudamire, etc.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Boogua

[Jordan4life_2007]

Positive I'm only 25. I'm not really sure why you quoted me there if you weren't going to comment about anything in my post, besides questioning my age. I didn't even talk about the past there. I talked about current players and how they're able to succeed. I think both of those guys would be good in any era, by the way.

 

Why comment? You say the same thing over and over. "It's because of the rules, it's because of the rules, it's because of the rules."

[whitesoxfan99]

Average...? Paul and Parker are both insanely fast players.

 

Chris Paul is not insanely fast and I have never heard a single person describe him as such. His athleticism is nothing special at all by NBA standards. He is a phenomenal ball handler, a great passer and he understands how to create space but he doesn't do it with athleticism.

 

In fact, not that they are a perfect representation of his athleticism but his lane agility and 3/4 court sprint times were nothing special at all at the NBA pre draft camp. Chris Paul's 3/4 court sprint time was the same as Kevin Love's and slower than a number of players that nobody would consider as insanely fast and his agility test was worse than guys like Jon Diebler, Draymond Green and Shane Battier (amongst many others) who I am pretty certain nobody would describe as particularly fast or quick.

[RockRaines]

Debate never dies on Soxtalk

 

Signed #teamanderson

Coffee up my nose on that one, thanks dude.

[whitesoxfan99]

Even better than the show Harden put on against The Thunder last week. The PG position is just too much now. I remember back in the day Mookie Blalock was considered an all-star caliber PG. lol.

 

Rajon Rondo is a 4 time all star and isn't any better than 1 time all star Mookie Blaylock was at his peak. I agree that the depth of the PG position now is better than it has ever been but that wasn't a great example.

[Boogua]

Why comment? You say the same thing over and over. "It's because of the rules, it's because of the rules, it's because of the rules."

Yes, but you never provide anything of substance. I can go through all the wing players blowing up after 2004. I can show Allen Iverson having his best scoring season ever after 2004. There are just so many examples of how the rule changes helped perimeter players, so yes, it's because of the rules, it's because of the rules, it's because of the rules.

 

Can you help me understand the explosion in wing scoring that doesn't point towards the rule changes? Please? Can you explain to me how Damon Stoudamire scored 54 in a game at 31, or how guys like Parker, Redd x2, Crawford x3 scored 50+? Hell, a past prime Iverson and Gilbert freaking Arenas had 60 point games after the rule changes.

[ZoomSlowik]

Rajon Rondo is a 4 time all star and isn't any better than 1 time all star Mookie Blaylock was at his peak. I agree that the depth of the PG position now is better than it has ever been but that wasn't a great example.

 

That has more to do with the overrated status of Rondo than anything.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Yes, but you never provide anything of substance. I can go through all the wing players blowing up after 2004. I can show Allen Iverson having his best scoring season ever after 2004. There are just so many examples of how the rule changes helped perimeter players, so yes, it's because of the rules, it's because of the rules, it's because of the rules.

 

Can you help me understand the explosion in wing scoring that doesn't point towards the rule changes? Please? Can you explain to me how Damon Stoudamire scored 54 in a game at 31, or how guys like Parker, Redd x2, Crawford x3 scored 50+? Hell, a past prime Iverson and Gilbert freaking Arenas had 60 point games after the rule changes.

 

You throw a silly Bills Simmons quote at me stating that Kevin Johnson would average 30/15 in today's game and you want to talk about substance? Rightttttt. And these one or two game outliers you reference mean nothing. I've seen Dana Barros score 50 in a game. I've seen Tony Delk score 50 in a game. I've seen Muhammad Abdul Rauf, or whatever his name was, go on insane scoring binges. These guys weren't even borderline all-stars. it's quite simple:

 

Bulls fans won't admit this, and I sure didn't at the time, but the 90's was watered down as s***. You don't add 6 new teams in 8 years, as the league did from '87 through '94, and not see the league take a big hit overall. That's basically a new team a year. The drafts from '94 through '2002 were ugly. I'm talking Kirstie Alley ugly. Just f***ing Awful. The 2000/2001 particularly were the worst ever. It's taken a while, but the league has finally caught up to all that expansion from the late 80's, early 90's. Look at the drafts from '03 through last year and compare them to '94 through '02. it's like comparing Joyce Dewitt to Snookie. The talent is simply better now. Nothing to do with a few rule changes 8 years ago.

[Kyyle23]

You throw a silly Bills Simmons quote at me stating that Kevin Johnson would average 30/15 in today's game and you want to talk about substance? Rightttttt. And these one or two game outliers you reference mean nothing. I've seen Dana Barros score 50 in a game. I've seen Tony Delk score 50 in a game. I've seen Muhammad Abdul Rauf, or whatever his name was, go on insane scoring binges. These guys weren't even borderline all-stars. it's quite simple:

 

Bulls fans won't admit this, and I sure didn't at the time, but the 90's was watered down as s***. You don't add 6 new teams in 8 years, as the league did from '87 through '94, and not see the league take a big hit overall. That's basically a new team a year. The drafts from '94 through '2002 were ugly. I'm talking Kirstie Alley ugly. Just f***ing Awful. The 2000/2001 particularly were the worst ever. It's taken a while, but the league has finally caught up to all that expansion from the late 80's, early 90's. Look at the drafts from '03 through last year and compare them to '94 through '02. it's like comparing Joyce Dewitt to Snookie. The talent is simply better now. Nothing to do with a few rule changes 8 years ago.

 

your whole argument loses steam when you use 3 ugly women as your comparisons