2012-2013 NBA thread

[Boogua]

He's the best pf of all time. Where that puts him on a list of every NBA player I'm not sure but he's one of the best to ever play the game.

This is without question. There's an immortal 6 of Jordan, Russell, bird, magic, Kareem, and wilt though. Objectively? I think Duncan is the best big man of that group, but accomplishment wise those are the 6. Kobe doesn't belong anywhere near those guys either way.

[Jordan4life_2007]

This is without question. There's an immortal 6 of Jordan, Russell, bird, magic, Kareem, and wilt though. Objectively? I think Duncan is the best big man of that group, but accomplishment wise those are the 6. Kobe doesn't belong anywhere near those guys either way.

 

Kobe passed Magic/Bird after his 4th and 5th rings. Magic/Bird were liabilities defensively. Kobe (not now) but at his best was an all-league defender who could drop 55 on you whenever he felt like it.

 

[Boogua]

Kobe passed Magic/Bird after his 4th and 5th rings. Magic/Bird were liabilities defensively. Kobe (not now) but at his best was an all-league defender who could drop 55 on you whenever he felt like it.

Cool

[Quin]

For what it's worth, I got...

 

1. Jordan

2. Magic

3. Kareem

4. Wilt

5. Bird

6. Russell

7. Duncan

8. Shaq

9. Hakeem

10. LeBron

11. West

12. Kobe

13. Moses

14. Havlicek

15. Erving/Robertson

[Boogua]

For what it's worth, I got...

 

1. Jordan

2. Magic

3. Kareem

4. Wilt

5. Bird

6. Russell

7. Duncan

8. Shaq

9. Hakeem

10. LeBron

11. West

12. Kobe

13. Moses

14. Havlicek

15. Erving/Robertson

You have a good list.

[Jordan4life_2007]

For what it's worth, I got...

 

1. Jordan

2. Magic

3. Kareem

4. Wilt

5. Bird

6. Russell

7. Duncan

8. Shaq

9. Hakeem

10. LeBron

11. West

12. Kobe

13. Moses

14. Havlicek

15. Erving/Robertson

 

Russell over Shaq? West over Kobe? How?

[Kyyle23]

Russell over Shaq? West over Kobe? How?

 

Some people don't get all starry eyed about the new and improved NBA and choose to respect the predecessors. Weird concept, I know

[Kyyle23]

Any time George wants to come to the game and suit up.....

[Jordan4life_2007]

Some people don't get all starry eyed about the new and improved NBA and choose to respect the predecessors. Weird concept, I know

 

In other words, one has 11 rings and the other is the logo. Got ya.

[soxsoxsoxsox]

Only 70 at half for Miami

 

 

[Kyyle23]

In other words, one has 11 rings and the other is the logo. Got ya.

 

Right, and neither of them did anything in the game to earn your respect. Got ya.

[Brian]

I must be I'll, because I'm with J4L on Kobe. Not his reasoning but Kobe in his prime was definitely better then Bird in his prime.

Bird made other players better when I don't think Kobe ever did, but as comparing them, it's Kobe easily.

[Jake]

This came from Nate Robinson's instagram account, apparently

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

Good god. For a team that prides itself on defense, this loss could be even more demoralizing for the Pacers than game 1. This is flawless offensive execution by the Heat.

[soxsoxsoxsox]

This came from Nate Robinson's instagram account, apparently

 

he wants to get PAID

 

 

[ZoomSlowik]

I'm going to largely stay out of the old-timers vs modern debate. It's been done before and it's not going to go anywhere productive.

 

My only comment is that there are things besides athleticism that matter, and most of the top old-timers have a big edge there. Please note that I am not saying that EVERY player from earlier eras (pre-90's) can hang, I'm talking about the top tier guys.

Edited May 27, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[MexSoxFan#1]

I must be I'll, because I'm with J4L on Kobe. Not his reasoning but Kobe in his prime was definitely better then Bird in his prime.

Bird made other players better when I don't think Kobe ever did, but as comparing them, it's Kobe easily.

No, let's not get carried away.

Bird won 3 straight MVPs. Bird's peak > Kobe's and it ain't close. Bird's 3 year MVP run is as good as any in NBA history. How many MVPs does Kobe have again?

Kobe is suppossed to be this unstoppable offensive machine yet has exactly two scoring titles in more than a decade and a half years career

I'll say it, Kobe is a chucker, (FG% was never his friend) takes too many bad shots, his "clutchness" is overrated (check for yourselves) and LeBron is already better than Bryant ever was. I don't use the "ring count" when judging players or else Robert Horry would be top 3 GOAT...

 

My top 5

1. MJ

2. KAJ

3. Wilt

4. Magic

5. Bird

Edited May 27, 2013 by MexSoxFan#1

[Quin]

Russell over Shaq? West over Kobe? How?

 

In a vacuum, I pick Shaq over Russell.

 

West over Kobe was a toss up for me, so I went with the Logo/guy who paved the way for Jordans and Kobes.

 

[Jordan4life_2007]

No, let's not get carried away.

Bird won 3 straight MVPs. Bird's peak > Kobe's and it ain't close. Bird's 3 year MVP run is as good as any in NBA history. How many MVPs does Kobe have again?

Kobe is suppossed to be this unstoppable offensive machine yet has exactly two scoring titles in more than a decade and a half years career

I'll say it, Kobe is a chucker, (FG% was never his friend) takes too many bad shots, his "clutchness" is overrated (check for yourselves) and LeBron is already better than Bryant ever was. I don't use the "ring count" when judging players or else Robert Horry would be top 3 GOAT...

 

My top 5

1. MJ

2. KAJ

3. Wilt

4. Magic

5. Bird

 

Ok, Kobe spent the first 8 years of his career with arguably the most dominant C the game has ever known. When Kobe is free to do as he pleases, like MJ was his whole career, we saw s*** we never saw before in our lives.

 

81 points

62 in 3 quarters

9 games in a row of 40 points

4 games in a row of 50 points

35+ for a full season

multiple months of 40+ppg

 

Kobe is arguably the most explosive scorer we've ever seen. Yes, even over Mike. The 3-ball was never a big part of Mike's game. Kobe hit 12 in one game once. Kobe's never been a chucker. iverson? Francis? Baron Davis? Those are chuckers. No, Kobe's never been as efficient as MJ/LeBron. Because he's not as good as those guys. But Bird? I'll admit it's close. But Kobe's got more rings and the difference in defensive impact isn't close. And stop with the Robert Horry nonsense. Not just you. But everybody says that same dumb s***. Nobody on earth, even his own mother, thinks Horry is an all-time great.

[MexSoxFan#1]

Kobe passed Magic/Bird after his 4th and 5th rings. Magic/Bird were liabilities defensively. Kobe (not now) but at his best was an all-league defender who could drop 55 on you whenever he felt like it.

I brought up Horry because you are using ring count as a reason why Kobe>Magic/Bird. It is flawed logic IMO, Kobe got his first 3 rings because of Shaq. Bird would've had more chips if it weren't for the fact that he was going up against some of the greatest teams in NBA history like Magic's Lakers, early 80s 76ers and Bad Boys Pistons. Kobe's Lakers beat one of the worst Finalists in Dwight's Magic, lol. Kobe has it over Bird in longetivity but peak vs peak, Bird easily.

 

I totally disagree with you on your opinion of Kobe > MJ offensively. The only thing Kobe has on MJ is long range and not by much, MJ was the better offensive and defensive player. And before you call me an old timer that thinks his generation >, I'll say this, If LeBron keeps playing at this level for a few more years and leads his team to more titles and FMVPs, he will definitely be in the GOAT convo and deservedly so. Kobe? That train left the station...

Edited May 27, 2013 by MexSoxFan#1

[iamshack]

Ok, Kobe spent the first 8 years of his career with arguably the most dominant C the game has ever known. When Kobe is free to do as he pleases, like MJ was his whole career, we saw s*** we never saw before in our lives.

 

81 points

62 in 3 quarters

9 games in a row of 40 points

4 games in a row of 50 points

35+ for a full season

multiple months of 40+ppg

 

Kobe is arguably the most explosive scorer we've ever seen. Yes, even over Mike. The 3-ball was never a big part of Mike's game. Kobe hit 12 in one game once. Kobe's never been a chucker. iverson? Francis? Baron Davis? Those are chuckers. No, Kobe's never been as efficient as MJ/LeBron. Because he's not as good as those guys. But Bird? I'll admit it's close. But Kobe's got more rings and the difference in defensive impact isn't close. And stop with the Robert Horry nonsense. Not just you. But everybody says that same dumb s***. Nobody on earth, even his own mother, thinks Horry is an all-time great.

I agree with you, J...I think Kobe gets passed up a bit because he is so similar to Michael and came so quickly after him...the tendency is to elevate other, different players ahead of Kobe because Michael was better and yet they are so similar.

[Balta1701]

I agree with you, J...I think Kobe gets passed up a bit because he is so similar to Michael and came so quickly after him...the tendency is to elevate other, different players ahead of Kobe because Michael was better and yet they are so similar.

Don't forget the defense/hand check rule changes that happened right after Jordan retired and right before Kobe's era. That deservedly gets held against Kobe by people who know the game.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Don't forget the defense/hand check rule changes that happened right after Jordan retired and right before Kobe's era. That deservedly gets held against Kobe by people who know the game.

 

Or people that are forever trying to protect Jordan's legacy as if he's paying their bills or something (I used to do that until about 2008). In 2003, a full two years before the NBA started cracking down on hard hand-checking, grabbing, molesting, etc - Kobe averaged 30/7/6 at 24 years old while having to share the rock with Shaq. 2003 was also one of the years that he had 9 straight games of 40+ points. MJ > Kobe. There's no doubt about that. But Kobe is Kobe, handchecking or otherwise.

[ZoomSlowik]

Kobe's a career 33.6% 3-point shooter. That's a very mediocre percentage. Michael's was 32.7%, not exactly a huge trump card. Shooting a bunch of 3's doesn't mean you're good at them.

 

Michael's CAREER scoring average was 30.1 PPG, Kobe only has 3 years that touch that. MJ was even more ridiculous in the playoffs, upping his scoring to over 33 a game without hurting his TS%. Kobe's career high in TS% was 58, MJ has 6 seasons that exceed that total (and another at 57.9).

 

Seriously, I have a strong desire to injure people that put MJ and Kobe in the same discussion (regardless of context). Kobe is/was a damn good player, but he's not on the same tier. He's basically 90% of MJ.

 

We'll see about Lebron in 5 years or so.

Edited May 27, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[ZoomSlowik]

I find this extremely weird: Celtics "likely" to buy out Paul Pierce.

 

I don't see what the point is. They're still going to be at/near the cap ($73 million committed with Pierce). They're not really going to be in full rebuild until KG is gone anyways and next year is going to be dicey until Rondo gets back. Plus if they really don't want Pierce, I would think they could trade him for something rather than simply buying him out.