2012-2013 NBA thread

[Jordan4life_2007]

Kobe's a career 33.6% 3-point shooter. That's a very mediocre percentage. Michael's was 32.7%, not exactly a huge trump card. Shooting a bunch of 3's doesn't mean you're good at them.

 

Michael's CAREER scoring average was 30.1 PPG, Kobe only has 3 years that touch that. MJ was even more ridiculous in the playoffs, upping his scoring to over 33 a game without hurting his TS%. Kobe's career high in TS% was 58, MJ has 6 seasons that exceed that total (and another at 57.9).

 

Seriously, I have a strong desire to injure people that put MJ and Kobe in the same discussion (regardless of context). Kobe is/was a damn good player, but he's not on the same tier. He's basically 90% of MJ.

 

We'll see about Lebron in 5 years or so.

 

What's Michael's percentage when you take away the three years the line was moved in from '95-'97? It's pretty common knowledge that Kobe is the better long-range shooter (Joe Dumars, Phil Jackson, Tex Winter, Jim Cleamons all testified to this). Anyway, I had to go back and re-read all the posts from today to figure out how this turned into MJ vs Kobe. Mex implied that because Kobe has only two scoring titles that he's not that great a scorer. Which is ridiculous when you consider the circumstances Kobe has played under most of his career. Like I said before, MJ > Kobe all day. But when it comes to binge scoring - Kobe > MJ. And that's because of his range.

[ZoomSlowik]

What's Michael's percentage when you take away the three years the line was moved in from '95-'97? It's pretty common knowledge that Kobe is the better long-range shooter (Joe Dumars, Phil Jackson, Tex Winter, Jim Cleamons all testified to this). Anyway, I had to go back and re-read all the posts from today to figure out how this turned into MJ vs Kobe. Mex implied that because Kobe has only two scoring titles that he's not that great a scorer. Which is ridiculous when you consider the circumstances Kobe has played under most of his career. Like I said before, MJ > Kobe all day. But when it comes to binge scoring - Kobe > MJ. And that's because of his range.

 

You posted something like he's arguably a "more explosive scorer" than MJ using a couple isolated incidents, which is very odd to say. Saying anyone is better than MJ in something scoring-related (other than 3-point shooting) is questionable at best. I doubt it turns into MJ/Kobe without that post.

 

It's a strange phrasing, it seems like you're saying because he got hot a few times he's a better scorer than Jordan ("more explosive" generally implies better). It's like saying Nolan Ryan is the "most unhittable pitcher" because he has 7 no-hitters.

Edited May 28, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[Jordan4life_2007]

You posted something like he's arguably a "more explosive scorer" than MJ using a couple isolated incidents, which is a ludicrous statement. It's like arguing that Nolan Ryan is the most "unhittable" pitcher because he had 7 no-hitters.

 

lol. what the hell? And what do you mean a couple? Are you serious? You need to go check bball reference or something. Hell, Kobe did it to Mike himself (yes, the old, fat brokedown version) his last year. He had like 45 points and 9 threes in the first half (check youtube).

[ZoomSlowik]

lol. what the hell? And what do you mean a couple? Are you serious? You need to go check bball reference or something. Hell, Kobe did it to Mike himself (yes, the old, fat brokedown version) his last year. He had like 45 points and 9 threes in the first half (check youtube).

 

Read my edit. Your statement is very odd, like implying MJ never got hot or did anything amazing.

[whitesoxfan99]

lol. what the hell? And what do you mean a couple? Are you serious? You need to go check bball reference or something. Hell, Kobe did it to Mike himself (yes, the old, fat brokedown version) his last year. He had like 45 points and 9 threes in the first half (check youtube).

 

And yet, in significantly fewer games, Jordan had more 50 point games than Kobe and way more 40 point games. Jordan also scored 40 plus 9 straight times in his 86-87 season and scored 40+ 37 times that year (which included 8 50+ games which is more than Kobe ever had in a single season).

[Boogua]

And yet, in significantly fewer games, Jordan had more 50 point games than Kobe and way more 40 point games. Jordan also scored 40 plus 9 straight times in his 86-87 season and scored 40+ 37 times that year (which included 8 50+ games which is more than Kobe ever had in a single season).

Another telling stat is scoring in the playoffs. Jordan had 8 50+ point games in the playoffs. Kobe had 1 (and it was 50 on the dot I think). Playoff defenses are generally better and jordan was clearly more explosive in the playoffs.

[Jordan4life_2007]

And yet, in significantly fewer games, Jordan had more 50 point games than Kobe and way more 40 point games. Jordan also scored 40 plus 9 straight times in his 86-87 season and scored 40+ 37 times that year (which included 8 50+ games which is more than Kobe ever had in a single season).

 

And yet, Michael didn't spend the first 8 years of his career with everybody telling him to shoot less and pass the ball to Shaq. Michael was easily the more efficient/consistent scorer. Explosive/binge scoring is different. I don't see the disconnect here. Michael's never had 50 points going into the 4th quarter to my knowledge. Kobe's done that at least 5 times that I can remember. I don't recall (though I will check) Michael having multiple months of 40+ ppg. Michael's never scored 30 in a quarter. The game against the Knicks where Kobe set the garden record, he played like 35 minutes. When Kobe is at his absolute hottest, it's the most ridiculous thing ever. That's not a knock on Mike. Mike's game was FT line and below. Kobe handles/handled the ball more and was more perimeter shooting oriented. There's no defense for 28 foot 3's. That's what Kobe does when he's at his hottest.

[ZoomSlowik]

There's no defense for 28 foot 3's. That's what Kobe does when he's at his hottest.

 

Sure there is: let him take it and laugh the 70% of the time it doesn't go in.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Sure there is: let him take it and laugh the 70% of the time it doesn't go in.

 

Not when Kobe's at his hottest. But I digress. I'm sick of old vs new vs old vs new. Youtube is your friennd. The proof is all there. I'm out.

[ZoomSlowik]

Not when Kobe's at his hottest. But I digress. I'm sick of old vs new vs old vs new. Youtube is your friennd. The proof is all there. I'm out.

 

Says the guy that doesn't ever seem to care about what happened last week much less last decade. Do I really need to go dig up the 63 pointer against the Celtics? The shrug game? The double-nickel against the Knicks when he started the year playing baseball?

 

The reason I made the Nolan Ryan comment is you seem to be caught up in what Kobe did in single games here and there. Congrats, you lit up the Raptors in a meaningless regular season game. While impressive, it doesn't really mean anything other than you had a good night. He's played over 1,200 regular season games, and you're focusing on stuff he did in like 5 of them. Guys like David Thompson, Reggie Miller and Tracy McGrady have done ridiculous things as well.

Edited May 28, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[Quin]

Says the guy that doesn't ever seem to care about what happened last week much less last decade. Do I really need to go dig up the 63 pointer against the Celtics? The shrug game? The double-nickel against the Knicks when he started the year playing baseball?

 

The reason I made the Nolan Ryan comment is you seem to be caught up in what Kobe did in single games here and there. Congrats, you lit up the Raptors in a meaningless regular season game. While impressive, it doesn't really mean anything other than you had a good night. He's played over 1,200 regular season games, and you're focusing on stuff he did in like 5 of them. Guys like David Thompson, Reggie Miller and Tracy McGrady have done ridiculous things as well.

 

Gervin as well.

[Kyyle23]

Not when Kobe's at his hottest. But I digress. I'm sick of old vs new vs old vs new. Youtube is your friennd. The proof is all there. I'm out.

 

I can also watch "come fly with me", or "Air Time", or "above and beyond" or "his airness" or "too the max".

 

As well as youtube

[Jordan4life_2007]

Says the guy that doesn't ever seem to care about what happened last week much less last decade. Do I really need to go dig up the 63 pointer against the Celtics? The shrug game? The double-nickel against the Knicks when he started the year playing baseball?

 

The reason I made the Nolan Ryan comment is you seem to be caught up in what Kobe did in single games here and there. Congrats, you lit up the Raptors in a meaningless regular season game. While impressive, it doesn't really mean anything other than you had a good night. He's played over 1,200 regular season games, and you're focusing on stuff he did in like 5 of them. Guys like David Thompson, Reggie Miller and Tracy McGrady have done ridiculous things as well.

 

5 of them? Kobe has 3 months ('03, '06, '07) of 40+PPG. Michael's never done that. Ok. I'm really done now.

[ZoomSlowik]

5 of them? Kobe has 3 months ('03, '06, '07) of 40+PPG. Michael's never done that. Ok. I'm really done now.

 

Okay, so a few scattered games and a statistical oddity. How does his 40-point games being closer together really make him "more explosive"? Is Sammy Sosa the "most explosive" homerun hitter ever because he holds the record for most homers in a month (perhaps a bad example because steroids)?

 

As was pointed out already, Michael has 40 more 40-point games in his career despite playing almost 200 fewer games (and that includes 142 for the Wizards for MJ). The guy also averaged 37 per game for an entire season for christ's sake. Are we going to say that Kobe's "more explosive" because he's the all-time leader among players named after a type of beef next?

 

MJ has the highest career scoring average ever. He has the highest playoff scoring average ever. He has 10 scoring titles and is one of only two players ever to score 3,000 points in a season. For most players, 30 in a game is a huge night. Michael averaged that for his career. And yet somehow you think it's weird that people debate you when you say that Kobe was "more explosive".

Edited May 28, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[Jake]

Nate Robinson is arguably the most explosive scorer in NBA history. Look at that fourth quarter against Brooklyn.

[Quin]

I'm excited to watch Pop coach circles around Spoelstra.

[MexSoxFan#1]

Sure there is: let him take it and laugh the 70% of the time it doesn't go in.

[MexSoxFan#1]

I'm excited to watch Pop coach circles around Spoelstra.

Teams being equal, Pop destroys Spo but Spo has LBJ...even I can coach the Heat to victory, I'll just say to Bron, "do your thang" and get out of the way.

[MexSoxFan#1]

I think J4L needs to go back and refresh his memory about just how dominating MJ was. Kobe IS NOT on MJ's level and never was and never will be.

 

And to clarify when I called Kobe a chucker, I didn't mean it so much as a volume shooter (though he does shoot a lot), I meant it in the sense that he forces a lot of shots instead of playing within the offense. He's famous for making tough jumpers but most don't go in, in the end, they weren't good shots and PJax alluded to such recently.

 

Instead of chucker I should of said "bad shot selector":p

Edited May 28, 2013 by MexSoxFan#1

[ZoomSlowik]

I think J4L needs to go back and refresh his memory about just how dominating MJ was. Kobe IS NOT on MJ's level and never was and never will be.

 

And to clarify when I called Kobe a chucker, I didn't mean it so much as a volume shooter (though he does shoot a lot), I meant it in the sense that he forces a lot of shots instead of playing within the offense. He's famous for making tough jumpers but most don't go in, in the end, they weren't good shots and PJax alluded to such recently.

 

Instead of chucker I should of said "bad shot selector":p

 

In his defense, he's never said Kobe was better, just a "more explosive scorer". I realize that distinction won't help his case in most situations. I'm going to try to stay out of future ones, but Jordan/Kobe gets on my nerves.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I think J4L needs to go back and refresh his memory about just how dominating MJ was. Kobe IS NOT on MJ's level and never was and never will be.

 

And to clarify when I called Kobe a chucker, I didn't mean it so much as a volume shooter (though he does shoot a lot), I meant it in the sense that he forces a lot of shots instead of playing within the offense. He's famous for making tough jumpers but most don't go in, in the end, they weren't good shots and PJax alluded to such recently.

 

Instead of chucker I should of said "bad shot selector":p

 

See, this is what I'm talking about. I say Kobe is better than MJ at one thing and suddenly I've forgotten how ice he (MJ) was. People, Michael doesn't care about you like that. Stop protecting him like you've got something invested in it. If you made Michael mad, he'd probably call you a flaming f***ing f**got just like he did Kwame Brown (yet people hate LeBron more for the Decision).

 

In his defense, he's never said Kobe was better, just a "more explosive scorer". I realize that distinction won't help his case in most situations. I'm going to try to stay out of future ones, but Jordan/Kobe gets on my nerves.

 

Of course it won't help me here. This is homer Bulls central. A neutral site like realgm or insidehoops and plenty of people would agree with me (and disagree).

[MexSoxFan#1]

I've been to those websites and a couple of other basketball forums as well and the consensus in all of those is that MJ was the best ever and generally his GOAT competition consists of KAJ, Wilt and to a lesser extant, Bird, Magic and Russell. Sorry J4L but Kobe isn't regarded that high up. LeBron will enter that class by the time he is done. Kobe won't. SMH at the notion that it's mostly only Bulls homers put MJ on top of GOAT discussions...

Edited May 28, 2013 by MexSoxFan#1

[Brian]

I can also watch "come fly with me", or "Air Time", or "above and beyond" or "his airness" or "too the max".

 

As well as youtube

 

I used to watch my "Come Fly With Me" VHS all the time, until it got stuck in the VCR and ripped. I was sad.

[LittleHurt05]

I used to watch my "Come Fly With Me" VHS all the time, until it got stuck in the VCR and ripped. I was sad.

 

One of my best Christmas presents ever was "Michael Jordan's Playground". That tape never left my VCR.

[Kyyle23]

See, this is what I'm talking about. I say Kobe is better than MJ at one thing and suddenly I've forgotten how ice he (MJ) was. People, Michael doesn't care about you like that. Stop protecting him like you've got something invested in it. If you made Michael mad, he'd probably call you a flaming f***ing f**got just like he did Kwame Brown (yet people hate LeBron more for the Decision).

 

 

 

Of course it won't help me here. This is homer Bulls central. A neutral site like realgm or insidehoops and plenty of people would agree with me (and disagree).

 

GMAB, you made a terrible argument based on a few games in Kobes career and Zoom destroyed you with facts, and you fall back on "This is homer central, everyone is defending michael like their life is on the line"

 

awful