2012-2013 NBA thread

[RZZZA]

It's not Houstons draft picks theyre getting. It's raptors/dallas/bobcats

 

 

maybe protected, not sure

[ZoomSlowik]

OKC just got better now and in the long run.

 

Damn Presti is a good GM. I mean, he got lucky hitting on Durant, Westbrook, and Harden. They could have all been busts, but damn they hit. And then stole PJIII. Scouted and got Ibaka.

 

But the Perkins trade, getting Thabo (though Taj is fair value) and now Lamb? God damn Presti is good.

 

How did they get better now? K-mart is far inferior to Harden.

[ZoomSlowik]

Yup. Harden wanted max money. After the Ibaka extension, that just wasn't happening. The Thunder are in this thing for the LONG haul. I love it.

 

They offered him 4-52. Max is 4-58. It's not really that big a difference. Amnesty Perkins and it's a manageable roster.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I don't think they do. They got scared of future luxury tax payments (not even current luxury tax issues) and made their team worse. K-Mart is likely gone after this year (otherwise, keep Harden), so then they have Lamb and draft picks for one of their key players. The only way they can win this deal is if they strike gold again in the draft, and I don't think Houston will suck enough for them to get top-5 picks out of this.

 

How is Martin that much worse than Harden? I love Harden. But I doubt he'd be nearly as efficient as he is in a featured role. The Thunder are not looking at just 2013.

[Jordan4life_2007]

They offered him 4-52. Max is 4-58. It's not really that big a difference. Amnesty Perkins and it's a manageable roster.

 

I read 4/60. Anyway, I wouldn't want to pay my 6th man 15 million a year.

 

I want to see exactly what the draft picks are. That's the x-factor right now.

Edited October 28, 2012 by Jordan4life

[ZoomSlowik]

How is Martin that much worse than Harden? I love Harden. But I doubt he'd be nearly as efficient as he is in a featured role. The Thunder are not looking at just 2013.

 

A lot. Martin isn't nearly as good at putting it on the floor (which is important if he's going to come off the bench like Harden) and is a horrendous defender. He's also trending the wrong way while Harden is getting better. For the Thunder, it doesn't really matter what Harden would do in a featured role, it matters how effective he is as they used him (which was ridiculously effective).

[ZoomSlowik]

I read 4/60. Anyway, I wouldn't want to pay my 6th man 15 million a year.

 

I want to see exactly what the draft picks are. That's the x-factor right now.

 

I worded it poorly. If they had waited until after the season and matched the offer like most teams do in this situation, the largest offer they'd have had to match is 4-58.

 

As for the picks, it's obviously coming from this list of picks owed to Houston:

 

2013 first round draft pick from Dallas

Dallas' own 2013 first round draft pick to Houston via the L.A. Lakers ( top 20 protected in 2013, top 20 protected in 2014, top 20 protected in 2015, top 20 protected in 2016, top 20 protected in 2017 and unprotected in the 2018 Draft). [Dallas - L.A. Lakers, 12/11/2011 and then Houston-L.A. Lakers 3/15/2012]

 

2013 first round draft pick from Toronto

Toronto's own 2013 1st round pick to Houston (Top-3 Protected and 15-30 Protected in the 2013 Draft, top-2 protected and 15-30 protected in 2014, top-2 protected and 15-30 protected in 2015, top-1 Protected and 15-30 protected in 2016, top-1 protected and 15-30 Protected in 2017 and unprotected in the 2018 Draft. [Houston-Toronto, 7/11/2012]

 

2013 second round draft pick from Charlotte

Charlotte's own 2013 2nd round pick to Houston via Oklahoma City and Boston. [Charlotte - Oklahoma City, 12/19/2011 and then Boston-Oklahoma City, 6/26/2012 and then Boston-Houston-Portland, 7/20/2012]

 

2014 second round draft pick from New York

New York's own 2014 2nd round pick to Houston. [Houston-New York, 7/11/2012]

 

2015 second round draft pick from L.A. Clippers

The L.A. Clippers' own 2015 2nd round pick to Houston via Toronto (if pick is 51 - 55). If the L.A. Clippers' own 2015 2nd round pick is not among the 51st through 55th picks, then the L.A. Clippers' obligations to Houston shall be extinguished. [L.A. Clippers - Toronto, 1/7/2009 and then Houston - Toronto, 7/28/2010]

 

2015 second round draft pick from New York

New York's own 2015 2nd round pick to Houston. [Houston-New York,

 

 

 

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/fut...d#ixzz2AYpCMLko

 

So it's probably Toronto's mid-lotto first in what is looking like a horrible draft and Dallas' first either this year or next year.

[Jordan4life_2007]

A lot. Martin isn't nearly as good at putting it on the floor (which is important if he's going to come off the bench like Harden) and is a horrendous defender. He's also trending the wrong way while Harden is getting better. For the Thunder, it doesn't really matter what Harden would do in a featured role, it matters how effective he is as they used him (which was ridiculously effective).

 

Martin's one year removed from a 21.1 PER (same as harden last year). The guy is, what, 29? You say he's not good at getting to the line yet the guy routinely is right up there in ft attempts for a 2-guard (yes, i know they were down last year). Harden has become slightly overrated in my opinion.

[ZoomSlowik]

Martin's one year removed from a 21.1 PER (same as harden last year). The guy is, what, 29? You say he's not good at getting to the line yet the guy routinely is right up there in ft attempts for a 2-guard (yes, i know they were down last year). Harden has become slightly overrated in my opinion.

 

It was 17.08 the year before that and 16.60 this past year. That's good but not great. His attempts at the rim were way down last year (1.6, less than half Harden's attempts and less than Marco Belinelli) and as you said, his FT rate was way down as well. It's not a good sign that he stopped attacking the basket last year. Now he's going to a team where he's not going to get as many opportunities. He relies pretty heavily on made FT's and volume 3-point shooting to carry his true shooting percentages (which has admittedly been good to great for most of his career). His low percentage, jumper-heavy attack isn't nearly as good a fit for their team as Harden's overall awesomeness last year. He shot 70% in the basket area and made more plays as a passer while offering similar (better last year) foul-drawing and 3-point shooting than Martin, which are his two strengths. He worked brilliantly for them because he didn't need a ton of shots and touches to produce and the rest of their role players were offensively challenged.

 

Plus as I said, they're only going to end up with Martin for one year since they're clearly terrified of the luxury tax. After this year, they have to count on Lamb and 2013 draft picks to pick up the slack.

Edited October 28, 2012 by ZoomSlowik

[southsider2k5]

Nobody chooses the Bulls, don't get your hopes up ;0

 

he's going to LA

 

The Lakers have this shooting guard... What was his name... Oh hell I can't remember.

[RZZZA]

The Lakers have this shooting guard... What was his name... Oh hell I can't remember.

 

He's the one thats coming to da bulls

[flippedoutpunk]

“@KingJames: Best of luck to my lil bro/homie @JHarden13 in H-Town! He bout to go HAM in his role now. Easier road to the trophy for us!”

[Jordan4life_2007]

It was 17.08 the year before that and 16.60 this past year. That's good but not great. His attempts at the rim were way down last year (1.6, less than half Harden's attempts and less than Marco Belinelli) and as you said, his FT rate was way down as well. It's not a good sign that he stopped attacking the basket last year. Now he's going to a team where he's not going to get as many opportunities. He relies pretty heavily on made FT's and volume 3-point shooting to carry his true shooting percentages (which has admittedly been good to great for most of his career). His low percentage, jumper-heavy attack isn't nearly as good a fit for their team as Harden's overall awesomeness last year. He shot 70% in the basket area and made more plays as a passer while offering similar (better last year) foul-drawing and 3-point shooting than Martin, which are his two strengths. He worked brilliantly for them because he didn't need a ton of shots and touches to produce and the rest of their role players were offensively challenged.

 

Plus as I said, they're only going to end up with Martin for one year since they're clearly terrified of the luxury tax. After this year, they have to count on Lamb and 2013 draft picks to pick up the slack.

 

Well, we'll find out this year just how good Harden is. He'll be the featured guy now. I can see Martin flourishing in Harden's role. I just can't get mad at the Thunder. They've got two max guys locked up and a shot-blocking demon with an improving offensive game locked up as well. It should come as no surprise that they elected to let Harden walk. You say they should've amnestied Perkins? Um. Then who their center? Collison?

Edited October 28, 2012 by Jordan4life

[Steve9347]

The timing of this is really strange. It's not even a week before their first game. Besides the whole luxury tax thing, it's drastically altering a title contender with no time for the new guys to work their way into the lineup before the season.

 

I'm shocked.

I told you they'd deal Harden, but yeah, the timing is shocking. This also f***s Martin on my fantasy team.

[Jordan4life_2007]

So Martin, Lamb, two firsts and a second for Harden and crap. Sorry, I'm pro-Thunder right now.

[chw42]

So Martin, Lamb, two firsts and a second for Harden and crap. Sorry, I'm pro-Thunder right now.

 

Yeah I don't dislike this trade for OKC at all. I wouldn't say they won the trade, because Harden is better than Martin and Martin only costs a few million less on an annual basis, but they got picks and Lamb as well. The Rockets definitely paid a lot.

 

Harden's a very good player and he put up a freaking .660 TS% last year while playing with the 2nd team a lot. But Martin should get a lot more wide open looks in OKC as well. Martin's numbers fell off a cliff last year (.050 decrease in TS%). But he did get hurt and it was a shortened season. We'll see how he does on a stacked OKC team.

Edited October 28, 2012 by chw42

[chw42]

Isn't Harden financially impossible for the Bulls without them getting rid of some major assets anyways?

 

If they amnesty Boozer, they will have the money (sort of).

[RZZZA]

I'd like to see some splits about how Harden plays vs good defensive teams as compared to how he plays against bad defensive teams. I know they exist I just don't know where.

[Kyyle23]

Deadspin pointed this out, lol

 

@Chris_Broussard

 

Source from 1 of teams involved tells me it was "a good trade for both teams."

[zenryan]

Deadspin pointed this out, lol

 

 

 

 

lol, wow. You'd think those tweets/comments are coming from some internet fanboy trying to sound important. It is almost sad watching/reading this guy.

[nitetrain8601]

Honestly, I think Martin is better. He's more athletic, doesn't depend on flopping to get to the free throw line, and has proven to be a good lead scorer if need be. He suffered alot in McHale's system. I bet his advanced numbers end up being better this year.

[chw42]

After reading a Deadspin article about how the T-Wolves' roster is 2/3 white, I realized that their starting lineup could likely be all white at some point this year. Rubio, Ridnour, AK47, Love, Pekovic. What's David Kahn trying to do here?

[ZoomSlowik]

Well, we'll find out this year just how good Harden is. He'll be the featured guy now. I can see Martin flourishing in Harden's role. I just can't get mad at the Thunder. They've got two max guys locked up and a shot-blocking demon with an improving offensive game locked up as well. It should come as no surprise that they elected to let Harden walk. You say they should've amnestied Perkins? Um. Then who their center? Collison?

 

They should have let it ride this year and try to win a ring. They're not a tax team, so there wasn't really an excuse this year.

 

Next year you match on Harden, amnesty Perkins and trim some of your multi-million dolar bench players. It's not like those guys are any good unlike the Bulls' bench. I'd rather give Harden the $14.5 mil a year than Perkins, Daquan Cook and Eric Maynor (which is actually close to $15 million). They can't really afford to pay $8 million for a defense-only center that's only useful against like 5 teams. Thabo can go the next year too, of course then you need to draft/sign a cheap D-guy to take the pressure off their two superstars on that end.

 

You roll with a lineup of Westbrook/Thabo/Durant/PJIII or Collison/Ibaka most of the time, bring in the best big body you can get for the vet minimum for those rare times you need a real center (someone in the Joel Anthony mold) with Harden staying as your ace off the bench. It worked for Miami, the Thunder can do it just as easily.

Edited October 28, 2012 by ZoomSlowik

[ZoomSlowik]

Honestly, I think Martin is better. He's more athletic, doesn't depend on flopping to get to the free throw line, and has proven to be a good lead scorer if need be. He suffered alot in McHale's system. I bet his advanced numbers end up being better this year.

 

No way Martin is better. There's a reason Harden is going to get the max: a lot of teams want him. Martin's a fairly solid player, but he's basically the Luol Deng of shooting guards: they have different skill sets, but they're both decent but not stellar guys that won't get you anywhere. Harden was just absurdly efficient last year, he's basically a young Manu Ginobili.

Edited October 28, 2012 by ZoomSlowik

[ZoomSlowik]

If they amnesty Boozer, they will have the money (sort of).

 

They wouldn't have the money to sign anyone good. Rose, Deng and Noah already adds up to $44 million and the cap is in the high-50's. With the cap holds for the other 10 spots, they couldn't offer Harden anywhere near the max if those 3 are still there.