maggsmaggs Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 07:43 PM) Taj plays a different position than Asik, lol Why do people keep saying don't match? You realize we lose him for nothing then right? Are you guys happy to lose a guy we drafted and developed, who has tremendous value in todays NBA, for nothing? I hope our GM isn't this shortsighted There aren't many true Cs in the NBA. In games against the Dwight Howards of the world, not having Asik hurts. But not many teams have 7-foot centers. Most nights having Taj play against the team's 5 is fine. And Asik is awful. He plays solid D because of his height. But cannot hit FTs. Picks up way too many fouls. And has no offensive game whatsoever. He turns the ball over a ton. Doesn't pass well. He is incredibly overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 08:33 PM) How does the cap work on a contract like this? Is it the average or what they make a season? A $15 million expiring contract in 2014-15 would be a pretty decent trade chip if the cap hit the first 2 years is small. If the deal is 3/$25, then the first 2 years would be about $5 million a year. That would probably be enough to push the Bulls over the tax level next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 There aren't many true Cs in the NBA. In games against the Dwight Howards of the world, not having Asik hurts. But not many teams have 7-foot centers. Most nights having Taj play against the team's 5 is fine. And Asik is awful. He plays solid D because of his height. But cannot hit FTs. Picks up way too many fouls. And has no offensive game whatsoever. He turns the ball over a ton. Doesn't pass well. He is incredibly overrated. He is not over rated for what he's expected to do. He is an ELITE rim protector, and also an elite rebounder given the minutes he plays. Everything else you said, its not his game. He's not charged with passing or playing offense. I know nowadays people tend to like flashy offense and they tend to ignore defense but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 07:46 PM) If the deal is 3/$25, then the first 2 years would be about $5 million a year. That would probably be enough to push the Bulls over the tax level next year. I'm just wondering if its like the NFL where they take the average instead of the yearly total. The Bulls were budgeting $5 million for him. I'm just thinking if its 2 years at $5 million and that's the cap hit, and another where he'll be a $15 million expiring contract, maybe they do match. I personally don't think he's worth $5 million a year. Throw out his huge games against Charlotte last season, games I'm confident the Bulls would have won without his services, his numbers are even worse than they look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 08:52 PM) I'm just wondering if its like the NFL where they take the average instead of the yearly total. The Bulls were budgeting $5 million for him. I'm just thinking if its 2 years at $5 million and that's the cap hit, and another where he'll be a $15 million expiring contract, maybe they do match. I personally don't think he's worth $5 million a year. Throw out his huge games against Charlotte last season, games I'm confident the Bulls would have won without his services, his numbers are even worse than they look. No, the tax hit is the amount they get paid that year. If it's 5/5/15, then the cap number is 5/5/15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 07:49 PM) He is not over rated for what he's expected to do. He is an ELITE rim protector, and also an elite rebounder given the minutes he plays. Everything else you said, its not his game. He's not charged with passing or playing offense. I know nowadays people tend to like flashy offense and they tend to ignore defense but... Most of the time, he's a non factor. I agree with the defense and he's a decent rebounder, but he's very limited. He can't be used at the end of games because he can't make a free throw as we all know very well. He's a nice guy to have on the roster but its very understandable if the Bulls walk away. Without Rose most of this year and maybe Deng for a portion, they are going to need some guys who can score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 07:54 PM) No, the tax hit is the amount they get paid that year. If it's 5/5/15, then the cap number is 5/5/15. Then I bet they match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) Most of the time, he's a non factor. I agree with the defense and he's a decent rebounder, but he's very limited. He can't be used at the end of games because he can't make a free throw as we all know very well. He's a nice guy to have on the roster but its very understandable if the Bulls walk away. Without Rose most of this year and maybe Deng for a portion, they are going to need some guys who can score. Thibs used him at the end of games all the time man, what are you talking about? He's never a non factor, his presence in the post alone changes the trajectory of so many shots. Forget his free throws, forget his offense entirely. Asik =/= offense. Edited July 2, 2012 by RZZZA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 08:01 PM) Thibs used him at the end of games all the time man, what are you talking about? He's never a non factor, his presence in the post alone changes the trajectory of so many shots. You're playing 4 on 5 on offense at the end of the game. He can't touch the ball or he's going to the line. Never a non-factor? Really? There's games he plays 3 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 09:03 PM) You're playing 4 on 5 on offense at the end of the game. He can't touch the ball or he's going to the line. Never a non-factor? Really? There's games he plays 3 minutes. The big problem is...if he's on Houston, he's probably a 25 minute player, which means he's a lot more valuable for Houston than for the Bulls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 You're playing 4 on 5 on offense at the end of the game. He can't touch the ball or he's going to the line. Never a non-factor? Really? There's games he plays 3 minutes. So what though? There's teams in the NBA that have elite super stars on the perimeter, they don't need guys in the middle taking shots away from them. Houston is probably not one of those teams though. My point is, having a guy in the middle who is all defense and no offense is not such a big handicap as you make it out to be. Not for every team. Imagine Miami with Asik at C. Good God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 08:05 PM) The big problem is...if he's on Houston, he's probably a 25 minute player, which means he's a lot more valuable for Houston than for the Bulls. Ultimately, the Bulls have to beat Miami. In the 3 games this year against Miami he had a total of 4 points 6 rebounds and 3 blocks. He doesn't help them there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 09:07 PM) Ultimately, the Bulls have to beat Miami. In the 3 games this year against Miami he had a total of 4 points 6 rebounds and 3 blocks. He doesn't help them there. He definitely helped against Miami last year in the playoffs. Losing him for the final game was a big loss. His defense in the lane kept the lane closed off and forced LBJ and Wade to the outside where they were less effective. The Bulls just got no scoring themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Ultimately, the Bulls have to beat Miami. In the 3 games this year against Miami he had a total of 4 points 6 rebounds and 3 blocks. He doesn't help them there. What the...do you even watch the Bulls? Asik helps us because he protects the rim and shuts down driving lanes. Of course he helps us against Miami. Wade and Lebron are not gonna have such an easy time driving on Asik, are they? Theyre gonna have to change the trajectory on all their shots when he's there, aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 08:07 PM) So what though? There's teams in the NBA that have elite super stars on the perimeter, they don't need guys in the middle taking shots away from them. Houston is probably not one of those teams though. My point is, having a guy in the middle who is all defense and no offense is not such a big handicap as you make it out to be. Not for every team. Imagine Miami with Asik at C. Good God. We are talking his worth to the Bulls. As I said, I don't mind having him on the team but he's a luxury not a necessity, the Bulls have another elite rim defender in Noah who gets the bulk of the minutes and Gibson can play there some although undersized, but many NBA centers are undersized and Thibs can pick his minutes there depending on match ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 08:10 PM) What the...do you even watch the Bulls? Asik helps us because he protects the rim and shuts down driving lanes. Of course he helps us against Miami. Wade and Lebron are not gonna have such an easy time driving on Asik, are they? Theyre gonna have to change the trajectory on all their shots when he's there, aren't they? What does Noah do? I guess he left the Bulls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 What does Noah do? I guess he left the Bulls. Noah is not as good of a rim protector as Asik. Noah has his own things he does well. He's a better man defender, a better perimeter defender, a better rebounder, a better scorer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SexiAlexei Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 08:10 PM) What the...do you even watch the Bulls? Asik helps us because he protects the rim and shuts down driving lanes. Of course he helps us against Miami. Wade and Lebron are not gonna have such an easy time driving on Asik, are they? Theyre gonna have to change the trajectory on all their shots when he's there, aren't they? I don't understand your obsession with a backup C. We have a pretty good starting C already, and are in desperate need of a playmaking SG. Wasting that kind of money on a backup C is not a luxury the Bulls can afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 The Bulls just dont have the money to spend on Asik and you can find other Centers who may be able to play 10 minutes for considerably cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 I don't understand your obsession with a backup C. We have a pretty good starting C already, and are in desperate need of a playmaking SG. Wasting that kind of money on a backup C is not a luxury the Bulls can afford. my 'obsession' is with not losing him for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 09:14 PM) Noah is not as good of a rim protector as Asik. Noah has his own things he does well. He's a better man defender, a better perimeter defender, a better rebounder, a better scorer. Here's the problem...some games, Noah does fine...those are games where the other team doesn't have a true low-post game. If antoher team has a guy who can overpower Noah, then without a guy like Asik, the Bulls will lose that game because the Bulls can't shut that kind of ball down with Noah. But then, how much are those games worth? The Pacers with Hibbert could hurt the Bulls, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Here's the problem...some games, Noah does fine...those are games where the other team doesn't have a true low-post game. If antoher team has a guy who can overpower Noah, then without a guy like Asik, the Bulls will lose that game because the Bulls can't shut that kind of ball down with Noah. But then, how much are those games worth? The Pacers with Hibbert could hurt the Bulls, but... I agree, we have one of the best C/backup C combos in the entire game. If we have to break it up, so be it, but I don't want Asik to go for nothing. That would suck balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 In a perfect world the Rockets would send someone for Asik, but I cant imagine they want to pay Asik that much money and give up something useful. I could dream of getting White or Lamb, just not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 08:18 PM) I agree, we have one of the best C/backup C combos in the entire game. If we have to break it up, so be it, but I don't want Asik to go for nothing. That would suck balls. Sometimes you can't avoid it. This might be one of those times depending on how deep into the tax JR is willing to go. They could probably go quite a bit in and remain in the black, but its so complicated with how the cap works, if it destroys any chance of improving the roster for 3 years, that's another thing that needs to be considered. The year he's scheduled to make $15 million is the year the Bulls are expected to get a bunch of cap room with among other things amnestying Boozer, and would this contract stop them from being able to sign Gibson? I don't think Gibson is a starter, but I'd rather have him than Asik. There are so many rules with the cap I'm unfamiliar with and I would guess most are. Teams try to throw these poison pills in contracts so they won't be met. Maybe this was Houston's, and I would imagine they understand the Bulls cap situation a lot better than me. Edited July 2, 2012 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maggsmaggs Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 Here is the cap breakdown of the Asik deal: Larry Coon @LarryCoon Avg of contract in each year. For Chi, it'd be actual salary in each year. RT @dogmanx23: What's Houston cap hit with Asik? Kinda interesting that it's different for the teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts