Steve9347 Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (MexSoxFan#1 @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 03:21 PM) Explain the lack of quality big men, if every generation is bigger and faster, then why no 7 foot freaks of nature like Shaq. Wouldn't we have a plethora of big men? Prime Dwight Howard can't touch KAJ, Shaq, the Dream, DRobinson etc. Because now the league has 6'10" freaks like Kevin Durant who can run with anyone and score from anywhere past half court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 03:00 PM) I said that players progress. One generation is better than the one before it. And I disagree with this. Look at how guys like Garnett and Duncan are doing in today's NBA. They are considered two of the best Centers. Hell, a 36 year old Duncan has a higher PER right now than he did at the age of 24. His PER 36 minutes are pretty much in line with his career stats (Garnetts aren't too far off either). Now look at how guys like Hakeem and David Robinson aged (when the league was stronger). A very clear dip in production. Those are just a couple of examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (Boogua @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 03:29 PM) And I disagree with this. Look at how guys like Garnett and Duncan are doing in today's NBA. They are considered two of the best Centers. Hell, a 36 year old Duncan has a higher PER right now than he did at the age of 24. His PER 36 minutes are pretty much in line with his career stats (Garnetts aren't too far off either). Now look at how guys like Hakeem and David Robinson aged (when the league was stronger). A very clear dip in production. Those are just a couple of examples. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_hormone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (Boogua @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 03:29 PM) And I disagree with this. Look at how guys like Garnett and Duncan are doing in today's NBA. They are considered two of the best Centers. Hell, a 36 year old Duncan has a higher PER right now than he did at the age of 24. His PER 36 minutes are pretty much in line with his career stats (Garnetts aren't too far off either). Now look at how guys like Hakeem and David Robinson aged (when the league was stronger). A very clear dip in production. Those are just a couple of examples. The center position is dead, and the easiest to take apart. Do the same comparison at PG now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 01:18 PM) I'll give you that LeBron is bigger and stronger, but I don't buy for a minute that LeBron is faster, a better shooter and definitely not a better defender. Jordan's first step is as fast as anybody's that's ever played the game. LeBron does not nearly have the jumper that Jordan developed during his first retirement. Calling LeBron a better defender kinda makes me laugh. Jordan had multiple 200 steal / 100 block seasons. Lebron has not done either one of those things in any season, let alone in the same season. I totally agree with you. People forget how great Jordan actually was at times. Pick up a Jordan DVD and watch game footage. Defensively he was outstanding, offensively he had probably the quickest first step and concurrent acceleration than anyone in history including LeBron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 03:30 PM) The center position is dead, and the easiest to take apart. Do the same comparison at PG now. Magic Johnson? Prime Kevin Johnson and Tim Hardaway would pretty easily be in the top 3 PGs in today's era also. Kevin Johnson would be an absolute monster in this era. A prime Mark Price would be good in this era too. And the center position is dead because there are no more good ones coming out. Dwight was considered a center and when he was good he was considered a top 3 player in the league (probably even top 2) because of how dominant he was. Now put someone with Dwight's defensive skills and a plethora of offensive skills on top of that (Olajuwan). How valuable would he be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Bill Russell sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (Boogua @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 03:41 PM) Magic Johnson? Prime Kevin Johnson and Tim Hardaway would pretty easily be in the top 3 PGs in today's era also. Kevin Johnson would be an absolute monster in this era. A prime Mark Price would be good in this era too. And the center position is dead because there are no more good ones coming out. Dwight was considered a center and when he was good he was considered a top 3 player in the league (probably even top 2) because of how dominant he was. Now put someone with Dwight's defensive skills and a plethora of offensive skills on top of that (Olajuwan). How valuable would he be? The PGs of today would kill that bunch. Same with the 3/4's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Im not sure anyone is killing Magic. But then again we are talking about 1 freak player who was a combination of size/athleticism that still has not really been replicated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 04:43 PM) The PGs of today would kill that bunch. Same with the 3/4's Yikes, maybe. There were some great PG's back there, but they are obviously more physically gifted nowadays. I would still take Isiah Thomas and Magic over pretty much anyone these days other than D Rose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 03:43 PM) The PGs of today would kill that bunch. Same with the 3/4's Solid argument. KJ was extremely athletic with a fantastic midrange game. He was also lightening quick. He couldn't be as successful as an athletic freak like Steve Nash, who was one of the better PGs in the league just last year. He's no Greivis Vasquez (who's averaging 14 pts and 9 ast). Yeah, today's PGs are just FREAKS!111! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 03:46 PM) Yikes, maybe. There were some great PG's back there, but they are obviously more physically gifted nowadays. I would still take Isiah Thomas and Magic over pretty much anyone these days other than D Rose. i can't believe I forgot about Zeke. Damn. Good call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (Boogua @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 04:48 PM) i can't believe I forgot about Zeke. Damn. Good call. In the midst of his career he average 20 points and 10 dimes and only got better in the playoffs. He was stellar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 You also have to consider how physical the game was back then. Do you think Wade would be so tough if he got body slammed by the Bad Boys? Jordan dealt with that s*** all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 04:53 PM) You also have to consider how physical the game was back then. Do you think Wade would be so tough if he got body slammed by the Bad Boys? Jordan dealt with that s*** all the time. Hand checking, opponents who werent best friends since AAU and a further out 3 point line made the game a bit more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Yeah, I'm so not getting back into the old timers, BACK IN MY DAY arguments again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 03:42 PM) Bill Russell sucks. I wish you hadn't gone all hater on me, because then I could enjoy a post like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 03:44 PM) Im not sure anyone is killing Magic. But then again we are talking about 1 freak player who was a combination of size/athleticism that still has not really been replicated. You mean aside from the bigger/better guy playing for the Heat right now with #6 on his jersey, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (Boogua @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 03:47 PM) Solid argument. KJ was extremely athletic with a fantastic midrange game. He was also lightening quick. He couldn't be as successful as an athletic freak like Steve Nash, who was one of the better PGs in the league just last year. He's no Greivis Vasquez (who's averaging 14 pts and 9 ast). Yeah, today's PGs are just FREAKS!111! If assists are the only numbers you use in your argument of good point guard, then your scouting of points guards is pretty awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 04:49 PM) If assists are the only numbers you use in your argument of good point guard, then your scouting of points guards is pretty awful. And you've provided what again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 03:46 PM) Yikes, maybe. There were some great PG's back there, but they are obviously more physically gifted nowadays. I would still take Isiah Thomas and Magic over pretty much anyone these days other than D Rose. Wait, you'd take Rose over Magic? I'm a homer and I love me some D, but prime Magic? Edited January 24, 2013 by Steve9347 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 03:53 PM) You also have to consider how physical the game was back then. Do you think Wade would be so tough if he got body slammed by the Bad Boys? Jordan dealt with that s*** all the time. Thef*ck's comparing Wade to Jordan? I think LeBron would hold up just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (Boogua @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 04:51 PM) And you've provided what again? Kevin Johnson's highest PER was 23.7, and his career mark was 20.7 Chris Paul's lowest mark was 22.0, and his career mark is 25.5 (high of 30). In his second year, Kyrie Irving's PER is almost as high as KJ's best mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Kyrie Irving deserves all of your loves and then somes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MexSoxFan#1 Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2013 -> 03:27 PM) Because now the league has 6'10" freaks like Kevin Durant who can run with anyone and score from anywhere past half court. Baloney Gimme a prime KAJ over Durant anyday. A great center is the anchor of the defensr, grabs rebounds on the O and D and if he got offensive skills, is the most offensively efficient position. Even in today's game, if KAJ were 18 years old today, GMs would be chomping at the bit to draft him. and to JFL, I know you hate Russell, no one mentioned him here, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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