2012-2013 NBA thread

[Balta1701]

I really think chemistry, continuity and familiarity is being under rated. If you just sign a bunch of new guys, regardless of how good those guys are, I don't think there's going to be enough chemistry on that team to be as good as we were in 2010-2012 (pre Rose injury).

I think it's going to be darn near impossible for the Bulls to be as good as they were pre-Rose injury once he comes back.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I really think chemistry, continuity and familiarity is being under rated. If you just sign a bunch of new guys, regardless of how good those guys are, I don't think there's going to be enough chemistry on that team to be as good as we were in 2010-2012 (pre Rose injury).

 

Well unless CJ and Korver come back for less money its gonna be pretty hard to keep that continuity.

[2nd_city_saint787]

You'd be lucky to get 40 games out of those two. Billups tore his Achilles and is 36. Rip: see the last 4 years.

 

Just need Billups to stay healthy until Rose comes back... It'd be nice to have him healthy all year though, a 4th Quarter lineup of Rose-Billups-Deng-Taj-Noah would be pretty sexy.

[ZoomSlowik]

I could be wrong, I just dont like the way the Knicks were built. And Shumpert's game is athleticism, which is why a major injury could significantly impact his ability to play the game.

 

I said that the Knicks may not be better than the aging Celtics, which was to point out that there is a pretty big chasm between the Heat and everyone else.

 

I pretty much said it's too early to rank teams. Orlando might tell Dwight to f*** himself and trade him to Houston, Hibbert could be a Blazer, Lin could be in Phoenix or something and Allen might be a Clipper.

[Soxbadger]

Im refusing to work hard today, so I need to spend time doing something, and right now its arguing about a NBA season thats months away.

[Balta1701]

Just need Billups to stay healthy until Rose comes back... It'd be nice to have him healthy all year though, a 4th Quarter lineup of Rose-Billups-Deng-Taj-Noah would be pretty sexy.

Seriously...just assume that Rose won't be back next year if you're coming up with a workable plan. If he comes back, he's unlikely to be able to give us the kind of performance we'd need to be legit. If he got to close to Rose, it won't likely be until playoff time. If any plan you come up with assumes "well, if Rose comes back by January"...it's an extremely big gamble.

[Steve9347]

Jason Terry to Boston, 3 years paying the MLE

Ray Allen, your plan to Miami is waiting.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Ray Allen, your plan to Miami is waiting.

 

Clippers makes much more sense. They can offer more money and a starting gig.

[Soxbadger]

That presumes Allen feels he can actually play a full season as a starter. He may just want to join Miami to coast for 80 games and try hard in playoffs.

[Jordan4life_2007]

That presumes Allen feels he can actually play a full season as a starter. He may just want to join Miami to coast for 80 games and try hard in playoffs.

 

Depends on his ego, really. Ray Allen strikes me as a guy that would rather call it quits than relegate himself to a bench role and ring chase (he obviously already has a ring).

[SexiAlexei]

I don't really view Allen as an upgrade to any team he goes to at this point.

 

He was awful last post season, and at 36, his ankles aren't likely to hold out for another full season.

 

Maybe he fully heals and comes back healthy, but I'd be willing to bet he'll have another performance like we just saw.

Edited July 3, 2012 by SexiAlexei

[RZZZA]

Well unless CJ and Korver come back for less money its gonna be pretty hard to keep that continuity.

 

I mean, replacing one or two guys is not that difficult. But once you start talking about removing or adding major pieces...thats when the chemistry is gonna take a hit.

 

Say what you want about Korver but he's had 2 years with this team, he knows how to come off those screens juuust right, with juuust that perfect timing. The next 3pt shooter we get might not know how to do it that well, at least not right away. Thats just one example

[Jordan4life_2007]

I don't really view Allen as an upgrade to any team he goes to at this point.

 

He was awful last post season, and at 36, his ankles aren't likely to hold out for another full season.

 

Maybe he fully heals and comes back healthy, but I'd be willing to bet he'll have another performance like we just saw.

 

 

The wildcard is his health. That's obvious. We won't really know until he gets back on the court if last year was the new norm or at 36 his body has finally broken down.

[Balta1701]

The wildcard is his health. That's obvious. We won't really know until he gets back on the court if last year was the new norm or at 36 his body has finally broken down.

Even if his body is breaking down, if you dropped him from 34 mpg last year down to 20 mpg...it might make him a ton more effective/energized.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Even if his body is breaking down, if you dropped him from 34 mpg last year down to 20 mpg...it might make him a ton more effective/energized.

 

I understand that. That's why I mentioned his ego/pride. Does a guy that's been 35+ minutes a game want to even come back if the best thing for him would be to drastically cut his minutes down? You're going to have to chop Kobe's foot off before he comes off the bench. Duncan and KG, even at advanced ages and their own health issues, have never and will never come off the bench.

[Soxbadger]

Ego/pride matter, but money talks. If you can get a few mil to just sit around on the bench, most guys will take it.

[Balta1701]

I understand that. That's why I mentioned his ego/pride. Does a guy that's been 35+ minutes a game want to even come back if the best thing for him would be to drastically cut his minutes down? You're going to have to chop Kobe's foot off before he comes off the bench. Duncan and KG, even at advanced ages and their own health issues, have never and will never come off the bench.

But, Duncan has seen his mpg drop from ~34 to ~28 over the last 3 seasons, and he's a year younger than Allen. Allen's minutes have been 34-36 his entire time in Boston.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Ego/pride matter, but money talks. If you can get a few mil to just sit around on the bench, most guys will take it.

 

Most guys would. But most guys aren't Ray Allen. $3-5 million a year just doesn't mean a whole lot for a guy of his stature.

 

But, Duncan has seen his mpg drop from ~34 to ~28 over the last 3 seasons, and he's a year younger than Allen. Allen's minutes have been 34-36 his entire time in Boston.

 

Well, you had him all the way down to 20 MPG. If you were exaggerating, fine. I'm just saying that I think that if Ray feels like he can't be an effective starter anymore, he'll just go ahead and call it a career.

[Balta1701]

Most guys would. But most guys aren't Ray Allen. $3-5 million a year just doesn't mean a whole lot for a guy of his stature.

 

 

 

Well, you had him all the way down to 20 MPG. If you were exaggerating, fine. I'm just saying that I think that if Ray feels like he can't be an effective starter anymore, he'll just go ahead and call it a career.

If 25-28 mpg puts gas back in his tank, great. I picked 20 out of thin air.

[Kyyle23]

I mean, replacing one or two guys is not that difficult. But once you start talking about removing or adding major pieces...thats when the chemistry is gonna take a hit.

 

Say what you want about Korver but he's had 2 years with this team, he knows how to come off those screens juuust right, with juuust that perfect timing. The next 3pt shooter we get might not know how to do it that well, at least not right away. Thats just one example

 

Stop it, this chemistry you are talking about is nonsense. This exact same team you are complaining about tearing apart was put together on the fly within a few weeks after the Decision, and managed to work together just fine.

 

And you far overvalue the players on the roster. Korver is a good 3 point shooter, and a huge defensive liability every time he steps on the floor, and he also choked bigtime when needed(re: 2011 playoffs). Just like Ronnie Brewer is a good defensive player, and a huge offensive liability when he is on the floor(despite what he did at the beginning of this season, that shot is not reliable and he doesnt need to be constantly taking midrange jumpers). You keep talking about needing to match Houstons offer on Asik, that makes me ill just thinking about not being able to add someone around Rose because of Asiks large backloaded deal. Yay for 50 percent free throw shooting.

 

Talking about the need to keep this team together is exactly what GarPax is doing, and it drives me nuts. The team is flawed even with Rose at 100 percent. Does that mean they couldnt take out the Heat? We will never know, it will never happen with this team. By the time we get back Rose, hopefully management has begun to assemble a championship roster around him that wont sit back and wait for Rose to do his thing and will rather work with him while he does his thing.

[RZZZA]

I don't think it is nonsense at all. This team in 2010 was not as good as it was in 2011. We were ranked 18th in offense in 2010 and 5th in offense in 2011. Things just started to be much crisper and quicker after that chemistry started forming. Noah and Boozer barely even played together with eachother in 2010. In 2011, they were the highest assisting big man duo in the NBA, second only to Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum!

 

There is a lot to be said for chemistry.

 

I want us to be like the Celtics or Spurs. Find a core that works, leave it alone for years, and let it mature.

Edited July 3, 2012 by RZZZA

[Balta1701]

Talking about the need to keep this team together is exactly what GarPax is doing, and it drives me nuts. The team is flawed even with Rose at 100 percent. Does that mean they couldnt take out the Heat? We will never know, it will never happen with this team. By the time we get back Rose, hopefully management has begun to assemble a championship roster around him that wont sit back and wait for Rose to do his thing and will rather work with him while he does his thing.

My biggest problem continues to be...I can't see a mechanism where if the Bulls start tearing this thing down, they have any real path to get back up unless someone helps the team out.

 

And frankly, most of the "save us" trades that people can complain the Bulls didn't pull off (Teams taking on Deng's entire contract and passing back the 7th pick or something like that) fall into the category of "Why is this team helping the Bulls out". Amnestying Boozer and trading Noah and Deng for a fair return doesn't make the Bulls that much better...because both of those guys are between quite well paid and over-paid. If you want to clear their contracts to play free agency...you have to take very little back. If you want to take back contributing players...then you're not going to clear the kind of salary you'd need to play free agency.

[Soxbadger]

Most guys would. But most guys aren't Ray Allen. $3-5 million a year just doesn't mean a whole lot for a guy of his stature.

 

Where are you getting this insight into Ray Allen?

 

Do you know him?

 

Because most reports are Allen is looking at the Heat, which is a team that doesnt have a lot of money and doesnt have a lot of minutes.

 

I know many rich people, most of them would take an extra $3mil to sit around and do nothing. Because it is about ego, and the ego is how much money they have, not whether they worked really hard for it. So I just dont know how you can be so sure.

[Kyyle23]

I don't think it is nonsense at all. This team in 2010 was not as good as it was in 2011. We were ranked 18th in offense in 2010 and 5th in offense in 2011. Things just started to be much crisper and quicker after that chemistry started forming. Noah and Boozer barely even played together with eachother in 2010. In 2011, they were the highest assisting big man duo in the NBA, second only to Pau Gasol and Andrew Bynum!

 

There is a lot to be said for chemistry.

 

I want us to be like the Celtics or Spurs. Find a core that works, leave it alone for years, and let it mature.

 

 

Garpax approves of this message

[Soxbadger]

How are the Celtics a team that found a core that worked?

 

They traded for Garnett and Allen to add to Pierce. That is the exact opposite of what you want the Bulls to do.

 

(edit)

 

I think someone deleted their post.

Edited July 3, 2012 by Soxbadger