Jordan4life_2007 Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ May 23, 2013 -> 03:21 PM) Right, because big men never cheat off guys like that to overload the strong side of the floor. Look at the Melo clip again. I can't quite tell who it is, but there's a guy WIDE open on the opposite wing from Carmelo's drive. Hibbert and West are both chilling out next to Chandler and Hibbert drops off to cover the rim on that play. Yeah, I've seen it a few times. And it still means nothing. When LeBron blew by George in rapid fashion like he did there's nothing you can do at the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 23, 2013 -> 03:15 PM) And in last night's case he's guarding Battier or Bosh and is nowhere near the rim anyway. Once LeBron flew by George, that was it. It was either going to be a layup, dunk or foul. Why? That's exactly what the Pacers would have wanted - let anyone but LeBron beat you. I'll take Bosh throwing up an open 3 any day over LeBron with an open... layup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boogua Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 23, 2013 -> 03:31 PM) Yeah, I've seen it a few times. And it still means nothing. When LeBron blew by George in rapid fashion like he did there's nothing you can do at the point. So you honestly think if Hibbert is there that it makes no difference? Hibbert can block or alter layups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 23, 2013 -> 03:31 PM) Yeah, I've seen it a few times. And it still means nothing. When LeBron blew by George in rapid fashion like he did there's nothing you can do at the point. Except have a 7 footer in front of him so he has to put up a runner/awkward contested shot vs... again... a layup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (Boogua @ May 23, 2013 -> 03:35 PM) So you honestly think if Hibbert is there that it makes no difference? Hibbert can block or alter layups. At least a hard foul and make him shoot two pressure free throws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 23, 2013 -> 03:34 PM) Why? That's exactly what the Pacers would have wanted - let anyone but LeBron beat you. I'll take Bosh throwing up an open 3 any day over LeBron with an open... layup. And Hibbert had to be on the floor to accomplish this? This is all on Paul George. It's pathetic he's getting a free pass for some horrificly bad defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 You guys aren't being fair... If George had been doing a good job on LeBron in the 4th and in OT, and then suddenly they bring Hibbert in and he cheats off of Bosh to help with LeBron and LeBron dishes to Bosh who hits a wide-open jumper, all the sudden the conversation is "How come he brought in Hibbert when George has LeBron checked? How could you allow Bosh such a wide-open jumper??" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 23, 2013 -> 01:39 PM) And Hibbert had to be on the floor to accomplish this? This is all on Paul George. It's pathetic he's getting a free pass for some horrificly bad defense. Dan Dakich and some other guys I respect put it all on George too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 23, 2013 -> 03:39 PM) And Hibbert had to be on the floor to accomplish this? This is all on Paul George. It's pathetic he's getting a free pass for some horrificly bad defense. It's LeBron James with 2.2 seconds left. There's no reason to not try your best to ensure he doesn't beat you. Making anyone guard LeBron 1-on-1 in a pressure situation with 2.2 seconds left, f***ing even Michael Jordan, would be just stupid. And it was. 2.2 seconds. Help defense. It's not rocket science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ May 23, 2013 -> 03:42 PM) You guys aren't being fair... If George had been doing a good job on LeBron in the 4th and in OT, and then suddenly they bring Hibbert in and he cheats off of Bosh to help with LeBron and LeBron dishes to Bosh who hits a wide-open jumper, all the sudden the conversation is "How come he brought in Hibbert when George has LeBron checked? How could you allow Bosh such a wide-open jumper??" Hibbert had been playing when Lebron was a non-factor. Suddenly they take him out and James gets two gimme layups. I don't think anyone's going to criticize you for bringing help to Lebron on a drive given he has 4 MVP awards. Besides, a lot more things have to go right on that hypothetical play (Bosh being open, Lebron seeing him and having a passing lane, Bosh hitting a shot outside the paint) than James simply turning around and laying an uncontested layup off the glass. Edited May 23, 2013 by ZoomSlowik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 23, 2013 -> 01:47 PM) It's LeBron James with 2.2 seconds left. There's no reason to not try your best to ensure he doesn't beat you. Making anyone guard LeBron 1-on-1 in a pressure situation with 2.2 seconds left, f***ing even Michael Jordan, would be just stupid. And it was. 2.2 seconds. Help defense. It's not rocket science. I understand your point, but he's not Melo...there have been a number of instances where he's made the pass in this situation...yes, you have to be prepared for a LBJ drive, but as everyone has pointed out, George had him checked pretty well late in the game... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 23, 2013 -> 03:49 PM) I understand your point, but he's not Melo...there have been a number of instances where he's made the pass in this situation...yes, you have to be prepared for a LBJ drive, but as everyone has pointed out, George had him checked pretty well late in the game... 2.2 seconds. If he somehow catches the ball, drives around PG, sees Hibbert, decides to pass, finds an open asshole, dishes to said asshole, said asshole hits a shot, all within that REALLY F*CKING SHORT TIME FRAME - well, good game. Make someone else beat you. Or give Paul George zero help with one of the best interior defenders and shot blockers in the league sitting on the bench and watch a 4-time MVP put in an uncontested layup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 23, 2013 -> 03:47 PM) It's LeBron James with 2.2 seconds left. There's no reason to not try your best to ensure he doesn't beat you. Making anyone guard LeBron 1-on-1 in a pressure situation with 2.2 seconds left, f***ing even Michael Jordan, would be just stupid. And it was. 2.2 seconds. Help defense. It's not rocket science. Ok, and what the hell does Hibbert have to do with your scenario? They could've done exactly what you're advocating without him. LeBron made a bloody tampon out of George and that was it. and get outta here with it's "LeBron with 2.2 seconds left." I don't care if it's LeBron mixed with some Durant and Chris Paul. YOU DO NOT get beat like that. George is a more athletic version of Scottie Pippen. That should never happen in that situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ May 23, 2013 -> 01:49 PM) Hibbert had been playing when Lebron was a non-factor. Suddenly they take him out and James gets two gimme layups. I don't think anyone's going to criticize you for helping Lebron on a drive given he has 4 MVP awards. Besides, a lot more things have to go right on that hypothetical play (Bosh being open, Lebron seeing him and having a passing lane, Bosh hitting a shot outside the paint) than James simply turning around and laying an uncontested layup off the glass. I understand, but it wasn't Vogel's assumption that George was going to just let him walk to the basket, either. The choice was between allowing George to try and force an LBJ jumpshot, and sticking the Heat's perimeter players pretty well with more athletic guys or bringing in Hibbert to clog-up the lane or forcing James to alter his shot. George getting smoked just makes the choice he made look terrible, but that wasn't the assumption he was working off of when he made the decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve9347 Posted May 23, 2013 Author Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 23, 2013 -> 03:53 PM) George is a more athletic version of Scottie Pippen. You are a f***ing idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 23, 2013 -> 01:53 PM) 2.2 seconds. If he somehow catches the ball, drives around PG, sees Hibbert, decides to pass, finds an open asshole, dishes to said asshole, said asshole hits a shot, all within that REALLY F*CKING SHORT TIME FRAME - well, good game. Make someone else beat you. Or give Paul George zero help with one of the best interior defenders and shot blockers in the league sitting on the bench and watch a 4-time MVP put in an uncontested layup. Oh give me a break, all he has to do is take one step towards the basket, see Hibbert rotate over, dish to a wide-open Bosh, who hits the shot. That takes 1-1.5 seconds if executed well. 2.2 seconds is a pretty decent amount of time to pull off that kind of play. Far more has taken place in 2.2 seconds than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 23, 2013 -> 03:53 PM) Ok, and what the hell does Hibbert have to do with your scenario? They could've done exactly what you're advocating without him. LeBron made a bloody tampon out of George and that was it. and get outta here with it's "LeBron with 2.2 seconds left." I don't care if it's LeBron mixed with some Durant and Chris Paul. YOU DO NOT get beat like that. George is a more athletic version of Scottie Pippen. That should never happen in that situation. You sir are high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 23, 2013 -> 03:34 PM) Why? That's exactly what the Pacers would have wanted - let anyone but LeBron beat you. I'll take Bosh throwing up an open 3 any day over LeBron with an open... layup. Again, if Norris Cole/Shane Battier/Chris Bosh/whoever beats you, you can handle that as a Pacer. Letting LeBron drive untouched to the basket in 2 seconds? Not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 23, 2013 -> 03:53 PM) 2.2 seconds. If he somehow catches the ball, drives around PG, sees Hibbert, decides to pass, finds an open asshole, dishes to said asshole, said asshole hits a shot, all within that REALLY F*CKING SHORT TIME FRAME - well, good game. Make someone else beat you. Or give Paul George zero help with one of the best interior defenders and shot blockers in the league sitting on the bench and watch a 4-time MVP put in an uncontested layup. Exactly. If it were the Bulls in this scenario, I'd hope Thibs would be helping with if a much better defender such as Deng trying to stop LeBron, let alone Paul George. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 23, 2013 -> 02:00 PM) Again, if Norris Cole/Shane Battier/Chris Bosh/whoever beats you, you can handle that as a Pacer. Letting LeBron drive untouched to the basket in 2 seconds? Not so much. Again, that's not fair...there wasn't a whole lot of evidence that that could possibly happen either...it makes it look REALLY BAD because that is what did happen, but George had been defending LeBron pretty decently in the 4th and in OT, had he not? When you look at this after the fact, you have to at least work off the assumption that George should have been able to d LBJ up better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 23, 2013 -> 03:53 PM) Ok, and what the hell does Hibbert have to do with your scenario? They could've done exactly what you're advocating without him. LeBron made a bloody tampon out of George and that was it. and get outta here with it's "LeBron with 2.2 seconds left." I don't care if it's LeBron mixed with some Durant and Chris Paul. YOU DO NOT get beat like that. George is a more athletic version of Scottie Pippen. That should never happen in that situation. This is LeBron James we are talking about here. He can skull-f*** anyone in the NBA if he decides he wants to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 23, 2013 -> 02:03 PM) This is LeBron James we are talking about here. He can skull-f*** anyone in the NBA if he decides he wants to. But he DOESN'T a lot of the time! He's not Kobe or Michael...you guys have to realize that...in fact, if there IS one criticism of James it's that he doesn't seem to have that killer instinct at times...we saw it a few times in our series, even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 23, 2013 -> 04:03 PM) Again, that's not fair...there wasn't a whole lot of evidence that that could possibly happen either...it makes it look REALLY BAD because that is what did happen, but George had been defending LeBron pretty decently in the 4th and in OT, had he not? When you look at this after the fact, you have to at least work off the assumption that George should have been able to d LBJ up better than that. They had just done it the play before by getting a damned good screen to free up a switch to get Hill on LeBron. If you want to really dig down into it, you really can't even assume George would end up on LeBron. With a limited time frame, you have to attack the ballhandler. The clock is your friend. The idea is to try to get the ball out of his hands, not defend him. It is just even worse because James doesn't even have Wade on the floor at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (iamshack @ May 23, 2013 -> 04:05 PM) But he DOESN'T a lot of the time! He's not Kobe or Michael...you guys have to realize that...in fact, if there IS one criticism of James it's that he doesn't seem to have that killer instinct at times...we saw it a few times in our series, even. With 2.2 seconds left and Wade out of the game, you HAVE to make someone else beat you, end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 23, 2013 -> 03:53 PM) George is a more athletic version of Scottie Pippen. I have to go back to this for a second... How did we go from Memphis/Indiana being a horrible series with no "all-stars" to this statement? Is J4L trying to use the Chewbaca defense? That's the only explanation I can think of for this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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