2012-2013 NBA thread

[Jordan4life_2007]

I am now convinced that size/beef/physicality is not how you beat Miami now or in the future. The Bulls had more size in '11. The Pacers had more size the last two years. You have to be able to spread Miami out with multiple guys that can put the ball on the floor and create for shooters (Peja, Terry, Griffin, Barea, Green, Neal, Leonard). Duncan is one win away from becoming the best big man of all-time.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Jordan4life

[Boogua]

I am now convinced that size/beef/physicality is not how you beat Miami now or in the future. The Bulls had more size in '11. The Pacers had more size the last two years. You have to be able to spread Miami out with multiple guys that can put the ball on the floor and create for shooters (Peja, Terry, Marion, Green, Neal, Leonard). Duncan is one win away from becoming the best big man of all-time.

Both the Mavs and Spurs had some size and good defensive big men (Chandler and Duncan) and the 11 Bulls and these Pacers teams were extremely limited with ball handlers and/or shooters.

 

If the Bulls had a SG that wasn't Keith Bogans in 2011, they would have had a shot. If the Pacers would have had a PG that wasn't George Hill and a SG that wasn't Lance Stephenson they would have had a better chance too. It's not that black and white.

 

E: I do agree with your basic premise though. The Heat are over aggressive and are out of position against teams with really good ball movement and multiple shooters.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Boogua

[Jordan4life_2007]

Both the Mavs and Spurs had some size and good defensive big men (Chandler and Duncan) and the 11 Bulls and these Pacers teams were extremely limited with ball handlers and/or shooters.

 

If the Bulls had a SG that wasn't Keith Bogans in 2011, they would have had a shot. If the Pacers would have had a PG that wasn't George Hill and a SG that wasn't Lance Stephenson they would have had a better chance too. It's not that black and white.

 

E: I do agree with your basic premise though. The Heat are over aggressive and are out of position against teams with really good ball movement and multiple shooters.

 

Of course some combination of the two would be the best formula. There just aren't many teams out there like that. Anyway, this (to me anyway) is not about hahaha, the heat lose, LeBron is no Jordan, etc, etc. No matter what happens, the Heat have still owned the eastern conference the last three years. I know it can't happen overnight. But the Bulls need to move more towards the new-style NBA.

[Boogua]

Of course some combination of the two would be the best formula. There just aren't many teams out there like that. Anyway, this (to me anyway) is not about hahaha, the heat lose, LeBron is no Jordan, etc, etc. No matter what happens, the Heat have still owned the eastern conference the last three years. I know it can't happen overnight. But the Bulls need to move more towards the new-style NBA.

I'm not really sure what you mean by new style NBA. If you mean they need to add more shooters to help spread the floor, then yes, that's pretty obvious. It was obvious when the whole Heat defense collapsed on Rose in the 2011 ECF. The Pacers, who have nobody of Rose's playmaking ability, took the Heat to 7 games with their size. The Lakers and Celtics were big teams when they won their rings (Perkins and KG, Gasol and Bynum). The Mavs weren't small by any means (front court of Chandler, Dirk, and Marion) and the Spurs aren't that small either, although they're playing smaller now because Splitter has been terrible.

 

I don't think going away from size is a winning advantage. If you want the Bulls to add dribblers and shooters to help Rose and spacing then I think that was pretty obvious anyways.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Boogua

[ZoomSlowik]

Of course some combination of the two would be the best formula. There just aren't many teams out there like that. Anyway, this (to me anyway) is not about hahaha, the heat lose, LeBron is no Jordan, etc, etc. No matter what happens, the Heat have still owned the eastern conference the last three years. I know it can't happen overnight. But the Bulls need to move more towards the new-style NBA.

 

That's kind of the point, there aren't many teams that are a legit threat to knock off the Heat and win a championship. You have to be able to beat them on both ends, which the Spurs are doing (yeah, it's more offense, but they did win game one 92-88 and they held the Heat to 77 in game 3) and the Mavs did (held the Heat to 95 or less in 5 of the 6 games, though that team definitely had less shooting). You're not going to score 105 against them or hold them under 90 every game.

 

We'll see how Chicago and Indiana do next year with guys coming back. Both have the D but need to get better on offense. Unless George takes the leap, I have more faith in the Bulls. Besides Rose, Butler could be a big addition. If nothing else, he's a big boost over Bogans and Rip's chalk outline, and he showed flashes at making open 3's and getting to the line.

Edited June 17, 2013 by ZoomSlowik

[Brian]

The next Spurs W is going to be the toughest W ever.

 

I just want Lebron to be 1-3 in the finals. With the 1 being a weak title in a shortened year where Rose and Noah got hurt, even though I don't think the Bulls wouldve beat Miami. Just want to be able to say that so I could sleep better.

[SoxAce]

Just gotta take one in Miami. Come on San Antonio, you can do it!

 

This is definitely going seven games.

 

BTW, I love this quote.

 

The interesting thing to me is that Jason Kidd, notorious coach killer, is taking over a team on which he as a player previously killed a coach, and will now coach notorious coach killer Deron Williams, whose double homicide coach killing spree this year opened the door for the coach killing coach to coach the coach killer.

Edited June 17, 2013 by SoxAce

[MexSoxFan#1]

The next Spurs W is going to be the toughest W ever.

 

I just want Lebron to be 1-3 in the finals. With the 1 being a weak title in a shortened year where Rose and Noah got hurt, even though I don't think the Bulls wouldve beat Miami. Just want to be able to say that so I could sleep better.

If you look at LBJ's overall Finals performances so far, hardly GOAT level.

[Boogua]

If you look at LBJ's overall Finals performances so far, hardly GOAT level.

His numbers actually look better than he has played too. He has padded his stats in garbage time a few games. He was in really late in their blowout win 2 games ago (at one point Wade had 32 and Lebron had 24 or something. He finished with 33 with a bunch of late easy buckets). He also had a stretch in their blowout loss when he scored 9 quick points when they were down 20 in game 3.

 

He has no go-to moves and an inconsistent jumpshot. He was 1-8 when being guarded by Boris Diaw yesterday. Boris. Diaw.

[Steve9347]

BTW, I love this quote.

That's great.

[Balta1701]

I am now convinced that size/beef/physicality is not how you beat Miami now or in the future. The Bulls had more size in '11. The Pacers had more size the last two years. You have to be able to spread Miami out with multiple guys that can put the ball on the floor and create for shooters (Peja, Terry, Griffin, Barea, Green, Neal, Leonard). Duncan is one win away from becoming the best big man of all-time.

I think it was very clear to everyone watching that the biggest issue with that Bulls team against the Heat in 2011 was by far a lack of floor spacing created by the fact that they didn't have a midrange or outside threat at SG the Heat had to take seriously. It created every other problem they ran into. Rose couldn't get into the lane because the Heat could collapse on the lane, the Heat were able to get rebounds and breakaways because the Bulls couldn't force them to keep people outside.

 

That was the whole point of trying to bring in Hamilton; a guy who could hit a midrange jumper if they left him open while also not losing anything on defense. It failed because of injuries, but even their player moves fit that profile.

[Jenksismyhero]

His numbers actually look better than he has played too. He has padded his stats in garbage time a few games. He was in really late in their blowout win 2 games ago (at one point Wade had 32 and Lebron had 24 or something. He finished with 33 with a bunch of late easy buckets). He also had a stretch in their blowout loss when he scored 9 quick points when they were down 20 in game 3.

 

He has no go-to moves and an inconsistent jumpshot. He was 1-8 when being guarded by Boris Diaw yesterday. Boris. Diaw.

 

He does, he just refuses to use it. His post game is nearly unstoppable against most defenders.

 

[Balta1701]

He does, he just refuses to use it. His post game is nearly unstoppable against most defenders.

Anyone ever guess why he doesn't push this part of the game more? Is he worried about teams like the Pacers, Bulls, and Spurs, who do have big men, trying to beat him up down low?

[Jenksismyhero]

Anyone ever guess why he doesn't push this part of the game more? Is he worried about teams like the Pacers, Bulls, and Spurs, who do have big men, trying to beat him up down low?

 

He wants to be a point guard, not a forward. I think that's mostly what it comes down to.

[southsider2k5]

Always nice to see the most talented team in the NBA just quit for long periods of the NBA finals.

[Jake]

He wants to be a point guard, not a forward. I think that's mostly what it comes down to.

 

I think he finds a guy posting up to be fairly easy to scheme against, defensively. He can do it here and there, but after one game of it against Indy they totally squashed it.

[Boogua]

He does, he just refuses to use it. His post game is nearly unstoppable against most defenders.

I disagree with this. His post game is very average. He has no great moves on the block and needs time down there to do what he likes. He also has trouble getting great position usually. He has the body to absolutely dominate on the post, but he just doesn't. Jordan and Kobe, while smaller, had/have much better post games than Lebron.

 

He was successful against the Pacers that one game because they basically left George alone on island where Lebron could back his way down for 5+ seconds and then make an easy move. Once they sent quicker help he couldn't take advantage as easily. He's also having problems posting up Diaw, because unlike George, he's very solidly built and can body him and make it harder to gain post position.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Boogua

[Jenksismyhero]

I think he finds a guy posting up to be fairly easy to scheme against, defensively. He can do it here and there, but after one game of it against Indy they totally squashed it.

 

But that's fine, you don't have to go to that every trip down the floor, but at some point he needs to get over his fascination with shooting long 2 or 3 pt shots and take what the defense is giving you. The Spurs are normally playing 3-4 feet away (or more), daring him to take the jumpshot. Take two dribbles and start backing the defender down and see what happens. He's either going to get a better post shot or he's going to collapse the defense and get the ball to an open shooter.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Jenksismybitch

[Boogua]

But that's fine, you don't have to go to that every trip down the floor, but at some point he needs to get over his fascination with shooting long 2 or 3 pt shots and take what the defense is giving you. The Spurs are normally playing 3-4 feet away (or more), daring him to take the jumpshot. Take two dribbles and start backing the defender down and see what happens. He's either going to get a better post shot or he's going to collapse the defense and get the ball to an open shooter.

Sometimes he has pretty big defenders on him. He's going to have trouble posting up Diaw because he just doesn't have great moves down there.

[witesoxfan]

ftw

 

https://vine.co/v/hBdYV5tLgLr

[soxsoxsoxsox]

ftw

 

[Jenksismyhero]

sigh, Crawford is the referee for Game 6.

 

[witesoxfan]

sigh, Crawford is the referee for Game 6.

 

At least we know it's going 7, right?

 

EDIT: I know it's a merit based system, but you would think that they'd really try to avoid having Crawford ref against the Spurs in the FINALS given the history between the two.

Edited June 18, 2013 by witesoxfan

[Kyyle23]

Lebrons shoes say he is a 2 time Champion

[soxsoxsoxsox]

sigh, Crawford is the referee for Game 6.

 

 

FIXED