2012-2013 NBA thread

[Steve9347]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=479859732103070

 

Once a tool, always a tool.

That's hilarious!

[Brian]

Sounds like Clippers will give Boston a first rounder for Rivers. Doesn't say that Garnett is involved.

 

Good for Boston.

[Balta1701]

Sounds like Clippers will give Boston a first rounder for Rivers. Doesn't say that Garnett is involved.

 

Good for Boston.

Didn't the NBA sorta crack down on them trading for a coach?

[caulfield12]

Far as statistical and overall on-court (LeBron will never be as loved/popular) impact? Better? I wouldn't say that. Just as good? Definitely. If you want to break it up some and compare their individual skill-sets, etc, I see it like this:

 

Getting to the rim and finishing: LeBron NOPE

 

Ball-handling: Tie

 

Post-game: MJ

 

Mid-range: MJ

 

Long-range: Tie (and I'm being generous here. Three of Michael's four best seasons from deep came when the 3-point line was moved in. Another year or two like '13 from LeBron, and he's got the edge)

 

Rebounding: LeBron

 

Passing: LeBron

 

Defense: LeBron (his freakish size and versatility or the ability to guard every position on the floor well trumps Michael's insane on-ball defense)

 

These are the things that you can either use stats or simply your eyes (though I'm sure some will disagree).

 

I look at Kobe and the level he was playing at before his injury at age 34 and then think about LeBron, who's bigger, stronger, more athletic and injury-proof, and it's easy to project that he could very well still be the best player in the game at 34-35 if he plays until then (much like MJ).

 

Another thing is that Jordan would absolutely hit clutch free throws at the end of games. LeBron can get jittery.

 

Jordan would find the weakness in other teams psychologically and just exploit it...over and over again, offensively AND defensively.

 

There's no way I'm going to agree that James plays better defense having watched most of his games from the time he was a freshman at North Carolina until the day he retired. No way.

 

James still disappears at times in games....for large stretches, as well. And he defers to other teammates when he loses confidence. Or he tries to do it all himself and almost buried the Heat in Game 6 singlehandedly down the stretch trying to bull his way into the lane while out of control and frustrated.

 

With Jordan, you never doubted him or believed that he wouldn't come through. You can't say that about James.

Edited June 23, 2013 by caulfield12

[Jordan4life_2007]

Another thing is that Jordan would absolutely hit clutch free throws at the end of games. LeBron can get jittery.

 

MJ was obviously a better FT shooter and I'd want him at the line 10 times out of 10 in clutch situations (which goes to mid-range, where I said he's better).

 

Jordan would find the weakness in other teams psychologically and just exploit it...over and over again, offensively AND defensively.

 

Sure. Whatever this means.

 

There's no way I'm going to agree that James plays better defense having watched most of his games from the time he was a freshman at North Carolina until the day he retired. No way.

 

You said yourself you haven't watched a full nba game since Jordan retired. So I can't really take you seriously here.

 

James still disappears at times in games....for large stretches, as well. And he defers to other teammates when he loses confidence. Or he tries to do it all himself and almost buried the Heat in Game 6 singlehandedly down the stretch trying to bull his way into the lane while out of control and frustrated.

 

And this, again, is where the Jordan myth takes over. He never had a bad half, quarter, game - never got outplayed, never got bailed out by teammates, etc. Two games come to mind to me from the '97 playoffs. Game two of the '97 conference finals (I was there). Jordan was 2/12 through 3 quarters (4/15 for the game) and looked like absolute dogs***. The Bulls still won the game. But it was Pippen, Harper, and I believe Kerr that hit big shots at the end to preserve the win. The other game was game five from that same series. I remember it so well because it was memorial day and we had this huge blowout in my backyard. Michael missed his first 14 shots and was 2/22 through 3 quarters (9/35 for the game) and the Bulls lost. If LeBron had a 2 for 22 through 3 quarters it'd be time for him to retire.

 

With Jordan, you never doubted him or believed that he wouldn't come through. You can't say that about James.

 

There were plenty of times throughout his career that he was doubted. And many more times than not he came through. But he wasn't flawless/perfect.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Jordan4life

[WHarris1]

Ric Bucher: http://sulia.com/channel/basketball/f/02c5...?source=twitter

 

League source: three veterans who are candidates to be in deals leading up to, or during NBA draft are the Bulls'

Luol Deng, Pacers' Danny Granger and Blazers' Lamarcus Aldridge. The Cavs apparently have interest in Deng and he certainly would be a terrific role model and leader-by-example for a young squad; the Cavs also have a gaping hole at that position and if they have interest in vying for a playoff spot next season, a rookie out of this draft isn't going to move them appreciably closer. That said, there is skepticism that the Cavs are actually serious about parting with the No. 1 pick because they keep asking for assets as if it were the first pick in next

[southsider2k5]

Deng for the #1 pick? Done in a heartbeat. Problem is it will never happen.

[chw42]

Deng for the #1 pick? Done in a heartbeat. Problem is it will never happen.

 

Maybe a number 5 pick, but not #1, even in a mediocre draft class like this year's.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Would you guys do Deng/#20/Bobcats pick for Clevelands #1??

 

Rose-Mclemore-Butler-Boozer-Noah could be a really solid starting 5.

 

What would trading Deng do for the Bulls salary wise? Could they sign a good bench player, say a Gerald Henderson, and use the MLE on a big or a PG/SG depending what they wanna do with Kirk?

 

 

 

 

[Kyyle23]

Would you guys do Deng/#20/Bobcats pick for Clevelands #1??

Rose-Mclemore-Butler-Boozer-Noah could be a really solid starting 5.

 

What would trading Deng do for the Bulls salary wise? Could they sign a good bench player, say a Gerald Henderson, and use the MLE on a big or a PG/SG depending what they wanna do with Kirk?

 

Not really too excited about that. I think I would rather wait until we finally reach the carrot at the end of the bobcats pick stick. This draft isnt that exciting to me.

[witesoxfan]

That's a lot of talent you're giving up when McLemore is probably outside of the top 5 next year.

 

With so much uncertainty throughout this draft, I just don't think you want to give up extra picks for a the #1 pick. If Cleveland will do the #1 for Deng, you can't turn it down, but I certainly wouldn't go out of my way to acquire the pick right now.

[Jenksismyhero]

I feel like moving Deng for a prospect is a good idea if we were planning to compete in 2-3 seasons. The Bulls' window of opportunity is now.

[Quin]

Time for the NBA2k trade machine hat...

 

Bulls In: #1 Pick

Cavs In: Deng, #20

 

Then...

 

Bulls In: Kevin Garnett

Nets In: Boozer

Celtics In: Humphries, Brooks, Teague

 

Bulls then buy a 2nd round pick to go along with their 2nd rounder. The Mizzou fan in me would love to see them draft Pressey and Oriakhi, but any PG and big will do.

 

Sign Pierce

 

Sign Marco and Nazr for the vet minimum.

 

PG: Rose/Hinrich/2nd Rounder

SG: Oladipo/Bellinelli

SF: Butler/Pierce

PF: Garnett/Taj/Thomas

C : Noah/Nazr/2nd Rounder

[Jenksismyhero]

Time for the NBA2k trade machine hat...

 

Bulls In: #1 Pick

Cavs In: Deng, #20

 

Then...

 

Bulls In: Kevin Garnett

Nets In: Boozer

Celtics In: Humphries, Brooks, Teague

 

Bulls then buy a 2nd round pick to go along with their 2nd rounder. The Mizzou fan in me would love to see them draft Pressey and Oriakhi, but any PG and big will do.

 

Sign Pierce

 

Sign Marco and Nazr for the vet minimum.

 

PG: Rose/Hinrich/2nd Rounder

SG: Oladipo/Bellinelli

SF: Butler/Pierce

PF: Garnett/Taj/Thomas

C : Noah/Nazr/2nd Rounder

 

Wait, are the bulls drafting oladipo #1 in this scenario?

[Jenksismyhero]

And while I love the idea of Garnett on the Bulls, I really doubt he and Noah would get along. They don't care for each other.

[chw42]

Time for the NBA2k trade machine hat...

 

Bulls In: #1 Pick

Cavs In: Deng, #20

 

Then...

 

Bulls In: Kevin Garnett

Nets In: Boozer

Celtics In: Humphries, Brooks, Teague

 

Bulls then buy a 2nd round pick to go along with their 2nd rounder. The Mizzou fan in me would love to see them draft Pressey and Oriakhi, but any PG and big will do.

 

Sign Pierce

 

Sign Marco and Nazr for the vet minimum.

 

PG: Rose/Hinrich/2nd Rounder

SG: Oladipo/Bellinelli

SF: Butler/Pierce

PF: Garnett/Taj/Thomas

C : Noah/Nazr/2nd Rounder

 

There is no way we sign Paul Pierce to play backup SF. No way he agrees to that.

 

And Oladipo with the #1 pick?

 

[witesoxfan]

There is no way we sign Paul Pierce to play backup SF. No way he agrees to that.

 

And Oladipo with the #1 pick?

 

If nothing else, it would be a very good defensive team.

 

Oh, and if you took in Pierce, he would definitely start with Jimmy Buckets off the bench as the 6th man.

[Jenksismyhero]

If nothing else, it would be a very good defensive team.

 

Oh, and if you took in Pierce, he would definitely start with Jimmy Buckets off the bench as the 6th man.

 

Pierce is slow. I don't think he adds much value other than some ticket sales on a small market team.

[Boogua]

If nothing else, it would be a very good defensive team.

 

Oh, and if you took in Pierce, he would definitely start with Jimmy Buckets off the bench as the 6th man.

Oladipo would be an absolutely terrible pick at #1 overall. Especially by the Bulls. The spacing on that team would be horrendous. He's also a bit of a project and the Bulls would need an instant contributor considering they're in win-now mode.

 

McLemore makes sense because he can shoot. Hell, I'd rather have Porter in that scenario and play Butler at the 2 (although that doesn't help spacing much either).

[Kyyle23]

And while I love the idea of Garnett on the Bulls, I really doubt he and Noah would get along. They don't care for each other.

 

I dont think it would happen, but I think they would be able to put their differences aside. If Pippen and Rodman could work it out, then Garnett and Noah could. They both want to win.

[witesoxfan]

Pierce is slow. I don't think he adds much value other than some ticket sales on a small market team.

 

Pierce isn't the player he once was, but still put up a PER of 19.1 last year, .559 TS%, and a .502 EFG% last year. If used properly, he would be a huge upgrade to the Bulls and he'd help make Derrick Rose a better player too. You are basically looking at a guy who can do a little bit of everything but nothing particularly well which is a lot better than the Bulls running out guys who are basically specialty players. He'd also prove to be a guy that Butler could learn from as they really do play similar styles of ball.

 

Those two would actually be really good additions and they're familiar running Thibs' defense too.

 

Still, I don't see any way they don't end up in LA with Rivers.

[Kyyle23]

Pierce isn't the player he once was, but still put up a PER of 19.1 last year, .559 TS%, and a .502 EFG% last year. If used properly, he would be a huge upgrade to the Bulls and he'd help make Derrick Rose a better player too. You are basically looking at a guy who can do a little bit of everything but nothing particularly well which is a lot better than the Bulls running out guys who are basically specialty players. He'd also prove to be a guy that Butler could learn from as they really do play similar styles of ball.

 

Those two would actually be really good additions and they're familiar running Thibs' defense too.

 

Still, I don't see any way they don't end up in LA with Rivers.

 

Stern is trying to make sure this doesnt happen, similar to what he did with Chris Paul to the Lakers a few years back

[Balta1701]

Oladipo would be an absolutely terrible pick at #1 overall. Especially by the Bulls. The spacing on that team would be horrendous. He's also a bit of a project and the Bulls would need an instant contributor considering they're in win-now mode.

 

McLemore makes sense because he can shoot. Hell, I'd rather have Porter in that scenario and play Butler at the 2 (although that doesn't help spacing much either).

The other thing with the Bulls is that they're also looking long-term as well. Having Mirotic stuffed away makes that the case.

 

You're right though that Oladipo should not go #1. He'd definitely be a very interesting guy to pair with Thibs over a couple seasons though...think of the steps forward Butler has taken then imagine what a guy more athletic could do.

 

I don't think the Cavs would do Deng + #20 for the #1, but I wonder if there's any team in the top 5 that might do Deng + #20 for their slot. Oladipo could well be available for several picks and he could be an interesting fit.

 

And no, I wouldn't give up the Bobcats pick for anything in this draft.

[Balta1701]

Pierce isn't the player he once was, but still put up a PER of 19.1 last year, .559 TS%, and a .502 EFG% last year. If used properly, he would be a huge upgrade to the Bulls and he'd help make Derrick Rose a better player too. You are basically looking at a guy who can do a little bit of everything but nothing particularly well which is a lot better than the Bulls running out guys who are basically specialty players. He'd also prove to be a guy that Butler could learn from as they really do play similar styles of ball.

 

Those two would actually be really good additions and they're familiar running Thibs' defense too.

 

Still, I don't see any way they don't end up in LA with Rivers.

One problem though...Pierce probably ought to have his minutes restricted San-Antonio-Style. That's one thing I'm not quite sure Thibs has the hang of.

[ZoomSlowik]

I can't believe I'm saying this given my pessimism last year, but I think I'd rather take my chances with the Bulls' current core this year. Rose/Butler/Deng/Boozer/Noah is a very solid starting 5 even though it doesn't feature a second star. Hinrich also looks far better as a backup PG and they still have Taj. My only real concern would be questionable outside shooting, which could be addressed by adding a wing off the bench or two.

 

Of course if we were talking about a top-5 pick in the 2014 pick instead of the 2013 draft, my answer would be very different. I just don't see the value that the phrase "#1 pick" would normally deliver. Noel is really a luxury for the Bulls unless they do something drastic with their frontcourt. Long-term, you're likely looking at Noah/Mirotic/Gibson, which is a capable 3-man rotation. A wing would make more sense, but your top three options (McLemore, Oladipo and Porter) aren't exactly can't-miss options. I don't think you can say with any kind of confidence that any of those three will be better than Butler or Deng in the next 3 years. There is certainly a financial benefit, but that affects JR's checking account more than your roster flexibility. Rose+Noah+Taj is almost $40 million already and the #1 pick and Mirotic is about $10 million more. That leaves MAYBE $10 million for the other 8 roster spots.

 

If they had a shot at Andrew Wiggins or Jabari Parker it'd be a no-brainer, but then Cleveland wouldn't even consider trading the pick.