Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 05:03 PM) Yeah, except I fear hamilton proved to be much worse on defense than Thibs had anticipated... Mostly because for anyone other than Spoelstra it's really hard for guys on the bench in a suit to be effective defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 It's so hard to judge in a lockout season. I'm hoping some of these guys who had down years (including Asik) can come back and have better years for us. Adam Dunn rebounded, I believe in miracles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:02 PM) Nothing that I see them doing in that video is "nonsense". That's the basis of their system, Rose driving and breaking down the defense., The problem there is that if no one else is making a shot, particularly Korver, the Heat can collapse on Rose and it winds up being 3-4 on 1 because they don't have any other fear of an outside shot. That is why Hamilton was supposed to be the key addition...a guy who can hit that mid-range jumper from the SG spot without sacrificing defense as was done with Brewer. If you had Hamilton, 2 bigs, Rose, and Korver/Deng in at once, you have the ability to kick out to either Hamilton or Deng, whoever is left open, or you have an empty path for Rose. Did you watch the video? It showed missed pick and rolls, missed movement, etc. Derrick Rose breaking down the defense is great, the problem is when you have Deng not even touching a man on a screen. When you have Asik not moving correctly towards the basket thats a problem. When you have Asik come out as the screener which brings an immediate double to Rose, thats a problem. If you watched the film, youll notice 1 thing he kept repeating, Taj Gibson. But did Thibs start Taj this year? No. Did Taj play more minutes than Boozer, no. Taj averaged 10 less minutes than Boozer in the regular season and 11 in the postseason. But dont worry, the Bulls have no issues with their coach. Edited July 13, 2012 by Soxbadger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Badger do you realize we were a newly formed team in year 1, with a 22 year old PG having his first break out season in the NBA, and a new head coach, and a team whose core is making their first ECF appearance, facing a team full of veterans of many playoff runs? We got beat. We were inexperienced. We didn't play well. You learn, you grow from it. You don't blow it up just because you lose. That's a panic move bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:13 PM) Badger do you realize we were a newly formed team in year 1, with a 22 year old PG having his first break out season in the NBA, and a new head coach, and a team whose core is making their first ECF appearance, facing a team full of veterans of many playoff runs? We got beat. We were inexperienced. We didn't play well. You learn, you grow from it. You don't blow it up just because you lose. That's a panic move bro. Getting rid of Asik, Korver, Boozer, Deng is not blowing up the Bulls. Its reformulating the Bulls into a team that can win a Championship. Blowing up the Bulls would be trading Derrick Rose/Noah and Taj, and quite frankly I really dont see anyone arguing the Bulls should do that. Its not panic, I believe the Bulls should be on a 3 year plan. That is the exact opposite of panic, that is patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 But firing the coach is the issue here, you're suggesting we fire our coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 05:09 PM) Did you watch the video? It showed missed pick and rolls, missed movement, etc. Derrick Rose breaking down the defense is great, the problem is when you have Deng not even touching a man on a screen. When you have Asik not moving correctly towards the basket thats a problem. When you have Asik come out as the screener which brings an immediate double to Rose, thats a problem. If you watched the film, youll notice 1 thing he kept repeating, Taj Gibson. But did Thibs start Taj this year? No. Did Taj play more minutes than Boozer, no. Taj averaged 10 less minutes than Boozer in the regular season and 11 in the postseason. But dont worry, the Bulls have no issues with their coach. Boozer actually shot a higher %age last year than in the previous year, which isn't surprising since he was healthy. Boozer's PER last year was 19.7, Gibson was 16.9. Boozer shot 53% last year, Gibson 49%. Boozer was banged up like normal Boozer in that playoff series, so yes, Gibson was going to have chances to be effective. He's still not an incredible scoring option. Asik coming out and brining a screener to Rose isn't a problem if you can rotate the ball to another shooter. If Asik isn't ina position to shoot, someone has to cover him and he can pass the ball out...if you have another shooter. Yes, missed screens are a problem. If there was a stat for that, I'd love to see how the Bulls compare on m issed screens to other teams, but that's not a stat I know about. It seems like a whole lot of teams miss screens against the Bulls because they're pretty good at rotating around them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Im not saying the Bulls should fire him, I am saying that the Bulls need to keep all options open and if Thibs does not show a drastic improvement this year, I would not resign him. Dont believe I ever said fire him, I think you should let him coach out this year and see what happens. 3 years is a good amount of time to see if Thibs can improve. He could improve, I see no reason why he cant. I just am saying if he does not improve, I would not resign him next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:20 PM) Boozer actually shot a higher %age last year than in the previous year, which isn't surprising since he was healthy. Boozer's PER last year was 19.7, Gibson was 16.9. Boozer shot 53% last year, Gibson 49%. Boozer was banged up like normal Boozer in that playoff series, so yes, Gibson was going to have chances to be effective. He's still not an incredible scoring option. Asik coming out and brining a screener to Rose isn't a problem if you can rotate the ball to another shooter. If Asik isn't ina position to shoot, someone has to cover him and he can pass the ball out...if you have another shooter. Yes, missed screens are a problem. If there was a stat for that, I'd love to see how the Bulls compare on m issed screens to other teams, but that's not a stat I know about. It seems like a whole lot of teams miss screens against the Bulls because they're pretty good at rotating around them. Do you think Boozer is better than Taj? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 05:22 PM) Im not saying the Bulls should fire him, I am saying that the Bulls need to keep all options open and if Thibs does not show a drastic improvement this year, I would not resign him. Dont believe I ever said fire him, I think you should let him coach out this year and see what happens. 3 years is a good amount of time to see if Thibs can improve. He could improve, I see no reason why he cant. I just am saying if he does not improve, I would not resign him next year. Happily he'll get his extension done before October and then we won't have to worry about this conversation at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Why would you extend Thibs early? Hes under contract, no real incentive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 08:59 PM) You dont watch basketball then, You can foul away from the ball up until 2 minutes left. Watch the Spurs with Popovich. This is why no one should take you seriously, you dont watch NBA basketball. bahjahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 05:22 PM) Do you think Boozer is better than Taj? If both are healthy, yes. Boozer is a better offensive player, Taj is a more effective defender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 05:24 PM) Why would you extend Thibs early? Hes under contract, no real incentive. Because he'd get someone offering him a fortune if he finished up next year without a contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Im not saying the Bulls should fire him, I am saying that the Bulls need to keep all options open and if Thibs does not show a drastic improvement this year, I would not resign him. Dont believe I ever said fire him, I think you should let him coach out this year and see what happens. 3 years is a good amount of time to see if Thibs can improve. He could improve, I see no reason why he cant. I just am saying if he does not improve, I would not resign him next year. Yesterday you said the Bulls need a new coach, and blamed Thibs for Derrick getting injured. And today you're hating on Thibs again. If you didn't outright say you want him fired, you certainly hinted at it very strongly. You are allowing Thibs absolutely NO ROOM for error considering it's his first year as a HC. a 1 year contract as you propose is a vote of no confidence in your coach. It would cripple his ability to lead a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 05:27 PM) You are allowing Thibs absolutely NO ROOM for error considering it's his first year as a HC. Considering how effective that team was on both sides of the ball in his first year as a head coach, I don't th ink he needs room for error. The only way that heat series could have gone another way is if Korver hit his outside shots or Rose and Boozer were healthier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 01:58 PM) The chemistry offensively between boozer and noah was vastly improved this year. The playcalling for boozer was way way way better. Rose got hurt. That's what happened. Sorry! I know it sucks! but things happen in life! Bulls win the title at 100%. I can't guarantee that but I'm confident that would have been the case this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:25 PM) bahjahaha I assume this your admission you have no clue about the NBA or the rules. You simply stated something thats not true, Asik can be fouled without the ball. Popovich has done this in games, http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1201339...on-and-analysis San Antonio has been quick to foul poor-shooting big men away from the ball to send them to the line, and OKC employed that strategy on Splitter, who finished 6-of-12 from the charity stripe on the night. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:25 PM) If both are healthy, yes. Boozer is a better offensive player, Taj is a more effective defender. Player includes both offense and defense. In my opinion Taj is a better player than Boozer. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:26 PM) Because he'd get someone offering him a fortune if he finished up next year without a contract. He already is going to be asking for a fortune, there is also the chance that no one offers him more money than what the Bulls are currently offering. No way to tell his value unless its on the open market. QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:27 PM) Yesterday you said the Bulls need a new coach, and blamed Thibs for Derrick getting injured. And today you're hating on Thibs again. If you didn't outright say you want him fired, you certainly hinted at it very strongly. You are allowing Thibs absolutely NO ROOM for error considering it's his first year as a HC. a 1 year contract as you propose is a vote of no confidence in your coach. It would cripple his ability to lead a team. I never said I wanted him fired, because I never wanted him fired. Next year will be his 3rd year, I will be giving Thibs 3 years to prove himself. How is that no room for error? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 01:59 PM) You dont watch basketball then, You can foul away from the ball up until 2 minutes left. Watch the Spurs with Popovich. This is why no one should take you seriously, you dont watch NBA basketball. Okay. So the team is in foul trouble early on. The early fouls don't even put Asik to the line, but the team gets in the bonus, and the team is going to get to the line a lot and the other team is going to have a hard time putting out a roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:35 PM) Okay. So the team is in foul trouble early on. The early fouls don't even put Asik to the line, but the team gets in the bonus, and the team is going to get to the line a lot and the other team is going to have a hard time putting out a roster. There are 12 minutes in a quarter. 24 seconds per possession. Lets say 30 seconds per 2 (as we are fouling). That is 48 possessions per quarter, 24 being on defense. You would need 96 fouls to accomplish fouling Asik every time down the court. If you have a team of 10 players that is 60 fouls to use. Hence why Popovich, the smartest coach in the game, came up with the strategy. Its mathematically brilliant. My math was wrong, it cant be done every possession if they are averaging 4 possessions per minute. If they are averaging 2-3 possessions per minute it can be done. Edited July 13, 2012 by Soxbadger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 04:38 PM) There are 12 minutes in a quarter. 24 seconds per possession. Lets say 30 seconds per 2 (as we are fouling). That is 24 possessions per quarter, 12 being on defense. You would need 48 fouls to accomplish fouling Asik every time down the court. If you have a team of 10 players that is 60 fouls to use. Hence why Popovich, the smartest coach in the game, came up with the strategy. Its mathematically brilliant. You suck at math. If you're fouling every 30 seconds, that's 24 fouls per quarter, 96 per game. Of course Asik isn't going to play 48 minutes, just felt like that had to be mentioned. Edit- Ha, you caught it. Edited July 13, 2012 by ZoomSlowik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Haha I already figured that out. And it was using an extreme of 4 possessions per minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 02:17 PM) Getting rid of Asik, Korver, Boozer, Deng is not blowing up the Bulls. Its reformulating the Bulls into a team that can win a Championship. Blowing up the Bulls would be trading Derrick Rose/Noah and Taj, and quite frankly I really dont see anyone arguing the Bulls should do that. Its not panic, I believe the Bulls should be on a 3 year plan. That is the exact opposite of panic, that is patience. Deng is a better player then you give him credit to and a huge part of the core. I'm all for making moves, but they have to be designed to put the Bulls in a better spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) I like Deng, just the cap issues the Bulls will have, make it so he is expendable. Edited July 13, 2012 by Soxbadger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 02:24 PM) Why would you extend Thibs early? Hes under contract, no real incentive. To prevent distractions. To show him you are committed to him being our guy. To ensure that he doesn't leave when he is a FA. Thibs is one of the best coaches in the league and the Bulls would be crazy not to keep him around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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