2012-2013 NBA thread

[bmags]

The amount of games that would be affected would be ...1? 2? That game you reference San Antonio had a lead and was stunting the clips ability to come back. But notice the heat are not in the Western Conference. What's more, the Rockets are! And have no qualms about starting (one can assume) an emerging defensive stud C. The Bulls, for instance, played Asik in Noah's place in late game situations. Pops move was great, but him doing that does not negate Asik's value one iota. Most big man are bad at the line.

[Soxbadger]

The Bulls got rid of Doug Collins after he had some success for a no name Phil Jackson.

 

 

[Balta1701]

The Bulls got rid of Doug Collins after he had some success for a no name Phil Jackson.

As soon as Jesus is available to coach by simply rubbing his hands over Rose's knee, I'll agree with you that the Bulls need a new coach. Until then, I'm satisfied with one of the best coaches in the league.

[Chisoxfn]

There are 12 minutes in a quarter.

 

24 seconds per possession.

 

Lets say 30 seconds per 2 (as we are fouling).

 

That is 48 possessions per quarter, 24 being on defense. You would need 96 fouls to accomplish fouling Asik every time down the court. If you have a team of 10 players that is 60 fouls to use.

 

Hence why Popovich, the smartest coach in the game, came up with the strategy. Its mathematically brilliant.

 

My math was wrong, it cant be done every possession if they are averaging 4 possessions per minute. If they are averaging 2-3 possessions per minute it can be done.

Ya. And you aren't sending him to the line until you go over the limit. So instead, you are proposing that you immediately put your team in the bonus position and then if you want to, as a team, you could counter and pull Asik (if you really think they are going to keep fouling you and even then I'd argue, let em keep fouling cause pretty soon they won't have anyone on the roster) and play in the bonus for the rest of the quarter (knowing you are going to get to the line a lot if you play aggressive. Pretty sure Wade or LBJ or Rose or those type of players would have any issues getting to the line 30 times a night if you are essentially guaranteeing they are in the bonus for the majority of every quarter.

 

To be frank, this is a ludicrous strategy. If that was the case, why weren't teams fouling Shaq the whole game consistently. In fact, I think there were a lot of statisticians who said the hack a shaq was a horrible mathematical/statistic approach (even though he was an awful foul shooter too).

[Chisoxfn]

I assume this your admission you have no clue about the NBA or the rules. You simply stated something thats not true, Asik can be fouled without the ball. Popovich has done this in games, http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1201339...on-and-analysis

 

 

 

 

 

Player includes both offense and defense. In my opinion Taj is a better player than Boozer.

 

 

 

 

He already is going to be asking for a fortune, there is also the chance that no one offers him more money than what the Bulls are currently offering. No way to tell his value unless its on the open market.

 

 

 

I never said I wanted him fired, because I never wanted him fired.

 

Next year will be his 3rd year, I will be giving Thibs 3 years to prove himself.

 

How is that no room for error?

And in the 1st two years he's been phenomenal.

[Soxbadger]

To prevent distractions. To show him you are committed to him being our guy. To ensure that he doesn't leave when he is a FA. Thibs is one of the best coaches in the league and the Bulls would be crazy not to keep him around.

 

I believe that when you sign a contract there is no bad faith in not renegotiating it early. Thibs signed the agreement, the fact is, not many other teams wanted him as a Head Coach. So you would think he may have some loyalty to the Bulls, being the team who gave him the break in the first place.

 

Why does the team always have to show faith to the Coach? Thibs signed an agreement, the Bulls are paying him. If he didnt like it, he shouldnt have signed in the first place.

 

As soon as Jesus is available to coach by simply rubbing his hands over Rose's knee, I'll agree with you that the Bulls need a new coach. Until then, I'm satisfied with one of the best coaches in the league.

 

I just think the Bulls should keep their options open. This is a great season to really see what Thibs can do as a coach. Lets see what offense he can run without Rose.

 

Many coaches have looked amazing because theyve had a MVP player.

[bmags]

Surely Blake Griffin has absolutely zero value then, can we all agree on that?

[Chisoxfn]

I believe that when you sign a contract there is no bad faith in not renegotiating it early. Thibs signed the agreement, the fact is, not many other teams wanted him as a Head Coach. So you would think he may have some loyalty to the Bulls, being the team who gave him the break in the first place.

 

Why does the team always have to show faith to the Coach? Thibs signed an agreement, the Bulls are paying him. If he didnt like it, he shouldnt have signed in the first place.

 

 

 

I just think the Bulls should keep their options open. This is a great season to really see what Thibs can do as a coach. Lets see what offense he can run without Rose.

 

Many coaches have looked amazing because theyve had a MVP player.

Because if Thibs were a FA, you'd have a ton of teams bidding major money to land him. He'd feel the Bulls weren't loyal and very well might leave, which means the Bulls are looking to hire from anew. The dude has done a hell of a job and is one of the best basketball minds in the league and one of the best head coaches in the league. Probably the 2nd or 3rd best current coach in the NBA. Personally I think he's better then Doc, but thats just me.

 

I guarantee the Lakers would have offered a fortune to Thibs if he was a FA a year ago when they instead hired Mike Brown. You are living in your own world when it comes to Thibs. Your evaluation doesn't compare to most in the games evaluation. Lets also add in the fact that the players have fully bought into him. Basketball expert after expert has commented on how well the Bulls play the game. Do you think that has nothing to do with how excellent our coach is?

 

I'm sorry he didn't win a title in his 1st year as coach with a 22 year old point guard and largely a new team when he went up against an experienced team which included LBJ, Bosh, and Wade (3 of which are better then any other player on the Bulls not named Rose).

[Soxbadger]

To be frank, this is a ludicrous strategy. If that was the case, why weren't teams fouling Shaq the whole game consistently. In fact, I think there were a lot of statisticians who said the hack a shaq was a horrible mathematical/statistic approach (even though he was an awful foul shooter too).

 

You do know Popovich (whom I consider one of the 2 best coaches) employed this strategy last season pretty successfully.

 

It may be ludicrous, but when arguably the best coach in the NBA is doing in the playoffs, you have to at least recognize at as a strategy.

[Chisoxfn]

You do know Popovich (whom I consider one of the 2 best coaches) employed this strategy last season pretty successfully.

 

It may be ludicrous, but when arguably the best coach in the NBA is doing in the playoffs, you have to at least recognize at as a strategy.

The strategy was used briefly, it ultimately wasn't the reason that they won. And yes, I'm fully aware and I'm also fully aware that by and large, it isn't going to help you. That strategy wasn't the difference in them winning or losing that series. And mathematically, the strategy is garbage. Sometimes it might make sense as an adjustment to throw a team off, but long term, it is a garbage strategy.

[Soxbadger]

Surely Blake Griffin has absolutely zero value then, can we all agree on that?

 

Sad that you are now trying to change the goal posts because you didnt even know the rules.

 

 

Because if Thibs were a FA, you'd have a ton of teams bidding major money to land him. He'd feel the Bulls weren't loyal and very well might leave, which means the Bulls are looking to hire from anew. The dude has done a hell of a job and is one of the best basketball minds in the league and one of the best head coaches in the league. Probably the 2nd or 3rd best current coach in the NBA. Personally I think he's better then Doc, but thats just me.

 

I guarantee the Lakers would have offered a fortune to Thibs if he was a FA a year ago when they instead hired Mike Brown. You are living in your own world when it comes to Thibs. Your evaluation doesn't compare to most in the games evaluation. Lets also add in the fact that the players have fully bought into him. Basketball expert after expert has commented on how well the Bulls play the game. Do you think that has nothing to do with how excellent our coach is?

 

I'm sorry he didn't win a title in his 1st year as coach with a 22 year old point guard and largely a new team when he went up against an experienced team which included LBJ, Bosh, and Wade (3 of which are better then any other player on the Bulls not named Rose).

 

Its not about winning a title, its about his in game coaching.

 

Im sorry that I dont like Thibs, no one is really going to change my mind. Watching him coach is in my opinion one of the most frustrating things.

 

/shrugs

 

Maybe Im right, maybe Im wrong. But it never hurts to explore options.

 

[bmags]

You do know Popovich (whom I consider one of the 2 best coaches) employed this strategy last season pretty successfully.

 

It may be ludicrous, but when arguably the best coach in the NBA is doing in the playoffs, you have to at least recognize at as a strategy.

 

You don't form a team based off of what 1 coach might do to you, especially one team you might not even play. And in your case, you might as well not have a center. This is like seeing bill veeck employing a midget to pinch hit, seeing him walk, and thinking "I should employ a team of midgets! They'd never lose!"

[Soxbadger]

The strategy was used briefly, it ultimately wasn't the reason that they won. And yes, I'm fully aware and I'm also fully aware that by and large, it isn't going to help you. That strategy wasn't the difference in them winning or losing that series. And mathematically, the strategy is garbage. Sometimes it might make sense as an adjustment to throw a team off, but long term, it is a garbage strategy.

 

It may be.

 

But the Bulls lost a game because Asik was on the court, was fouled and didnt make his free throws.

 

Bad free throw shooting is just something that cant be ignored. If asik could shoot even a respectable percentage, hed probably be worth the contract.

[bmags]

Sad that you are now trying to change the goal posts because you didnt even know the rules.

 

Yeah, sorry, I assumed you meant teams would be employing a shaq strategy to Asik on offense, not the incredibly isolated, and situationally used tactic by a single coach in the NBA. And Blake's FT% is atrocious, so by your standards, he is the worst player in the NBA because of Greg Popovich. I know I wouldn't want him on my team, because a team might send him to the line 96 times and risk fouling them all out and playing wiht 0 players.

[RZZZA]

Funny stuff happening ITT

[Soxbadger]

You don't form a team based off of what 1 coach might do to you, especially one team you might not even play. And in your case, you might as well not have a center. This is like seeing bill veeck employing a midget to pinch hit, seeing him walk, and thinking "I should employ a team of midgets! They'd never lose!"

 

What are you talking about?

 

The Heat won the NBA Championship and basically didnt have a true center.

 

You are so far outside the realm of any discussion I cant even understand your point.

 

The comment was regarding whether ASIK would make the HEAT better.

 

And I said he would not, as Asik is a bad offensive player and could be fouled to actually hurt their offensive numbers.

 

Do you have anything to say about the actual discussion?

 

Or are you just posting random nonsense because you dont know the NBA rules?

[Soxbadger]

Yeah, sorry, I assumed you meant teams would be employing a shaq strategy to Asik on offense, not the incredibly isolated, and situationally used tactic by a single coach in the NBA. And Blake's FT% is atrocious, so by your standards, he is the worst player in the NBA because of Greg Popovich. I know I wouldn't want him on my team, because a team might send him to the line 96 times and risk fouling them all out and playing wiht 0 players.

 

No the comment was about whether Asik on the Heat would make them better.

 

Blake Griffin is a million times better on offense than Asik, I dont even know what you are talking about.

 

 

[ZoomSlowik]

Asik played 14.7 MPG this past year. He is our backup center and will always be our backup center as long as Joakim Noah is on the floor. You can't pay a backup center $15 million, even if it is for one season. The end.

[Soxbadger]

Asik played 14.7 MPG this past year. He is our backup center and will always be our backup center as long as Joakim Noah is on the floor. You can't pay a backup center $15 million, even if it is for one season. The end.

 

Um didnt you read Bmags post, Asik is comparable to Blake Griffin.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Chisoxfn]

It may be.

 

But the Bulls lost a game because Asik was on the court, was fouled and didnt make his free throws.

 

Bad free throw shooting is just something that cant be ignored. If asik could shoot even a respectable percentage, hed probably be worth the contract.

Dude, that wasn't a strategy. That was a foul as the clock expired. That is what you are coached to do regardless of who the free throw shooter was. And given the situation, it was a dumb play by Watson. Had Watson made the right decision, he would have been fouled and the good free throw shooter shoots free throws.

 

All I can say is, you are in the vast majority and you can have your opinion, but letting Thibbs become a FA as a coach would be a major mistake and it would cost the Bulls a lot of money (and possibly one of the best coaches in the league). And I'm not sure what is frustrating. Bulls have made a lot of really good in-game adjustments and are very very prepared.

[RZZZA]

Asik would be perfect for the Heat, he's exactly the type of center they need.

 

As ik will not hurt any team that has elite, superstar perimeter players. Which the Heat do have.

[Chisoxfn]

No the comment was about whether Asik on the Heat would make them better.

 

Blake Griffin is a million times better on offense than Asik, I dont even know what you are talking about.

Might be better on offense, but your point was based upon free throws and just fouling and fouling a bad free throw shooter. So in that regard, the situation really isn't different.

[Soxbadger]

Dude, that wasn't a strategy. That was a foul as the clock expired. That is what you are coached to do regardless of who the free throw shooter was. And given the situation, it was a dumb play by Watson. Had Watson made the right decision, he would have been fouled and the good free throw shooter shoots free throws.

 

All I can say is, you are in the vast majority and you can have your opinion, but letting Thibbs become a FA as a coach would be a major mistake and it would cost the Bulls a lot of money (and possibly one of the best coaches in the league). And I'm not sure what is frustrating. Bulls have made a lot of really good in-game adjustments and are very very prepared.

 

I know that wasnt a strategy, I was posting on this very board when it happened and freaked out about CJ Watson. But thats on Thibs, he needs to call CJ to him during the FT and say that CJ as the PG must keep the ball and get fouled.

 

I assume you mean minority and thats fine.

 

As for whats frustrating, I dont agree he makes good game adjustments. I think he is far to predictable with rest patterns.

 

I could be very wrong, but I have a feeling Im right.

[Chisoxfn]

What are you talking about?

 

The Heat won the NBA Championship and basically didnt have a true center.

 

You are so far outside the realm of any discussion I cant even understand your point.

 

The comment was regarding whether ASIK would make the HEAT better.

 

And I said he would not, as Asik is a bad offensive player and could be fouled to actually hurt their offensive numbers.

 

Do you have anything to say about the actual discussion?

 

Or are you just posting random nonsense because you dont know the NBA rules?

And you could have fouled Joel Anthony too. Asik would have been a massive upgrade. You know how good the Heat's defense would have been with Asik controlling the paint and offensively he would have set some massive screens for LBJ/Wade, which also would create space for Bosh. You are delusional if you don't think Asik would make the Heat a lot better. He's the exact type of player they are missing (a legitimately strong defensive center).

[Soxbadger]

Might be better on offense, but your point was based upon free throws and just fouling and fouling a bad free throw shooter. So in that regard, the situation really isn't different.

 

No that was just 1 part of the reasoning. I never said it was the only reason.

 

The other reason is that on offense you can play off asik, meaning that its effectively 4-5.

 

You cant do that with Griffin.