2012-2013 NBA thread

[Chisoxfn]

No that was just 1 part of the reasoning. I never said it was the only reason.

 

The other reason is that on offense you can play off asik, meaning that its effectively 4-5.

 

You cant do that with Griffin.

You really can't. He's going to be out setting picks and doing other things. It really isn't a 4-5 game and if you really go away, you'll get a lot of dunks when he's under the hoop.

[Soxbadger]

And you could have fouled Joel Anthony too. Asik would have been a massive upgrade. You know how good the Heat's defense would have been with Asik controlling the paint and offensively he would have set some massive screens for LBJ/Wade, which also would create space for Bosh. You are delusional if you don't think Asik would make the Heat a lot better. He's the exact type of player they are missing (a legitimately strong defensive center).

 

Joel Anthony doesnt make $8mil per year.

 

Its about whether Asik is worth the contract, not whether Asik at $0 is an improvement.

 

Its not in a vacuum, they have to pay Asik approximately $8mil per year.

[bmags]

No the comment was about whether Asik on the Heat would make them better.

 

Blake Griffin is a million times better on offense than Asik, I dont even know what you are talking about.

 

Is Asik better than Joel Anthony? yes

Is Asik better than Dexter Pittman? Yes

 

Therefore he makes them better. He's better than them even though Dexter Pittman has a scorching 68% FT percentage that would buffer them against Popovich's foolproof strategy!

[ZoomSlowik]

You really can't. He's going to be out setting picks and doing other things. It really isn't a 4-5 game and if you really go away, you'll get a lot of dunks when he's under the hoop.

 

He has to catch the ball to be able to dunk it.

[Soxbadger]

You really can't. He's going to be out setting picks and doing other things. It really isn't a 4-5 game and if you really go away, you'll get a lot of dunks when he's under the hoop.

 

How many times has Asik been under the hoop and stone handed a pass?

 

Hes just not reliable on offense. When the Bulls have Asik on the floor, id say 80% of possessions have his man doubling someone else.

[bmags]

No that was just 1 part of the reasoning. I never said it was the only reason.

 

The other reason is that on offense you can play off asik, meaning that its effectively 4-5.

 

You cant do that with Griffin.

 

YOU CAN FOUL HIM WITHOUT THE BALL DIDN"T YOU SEE POPOVICHS

[Soxbadger]

Is Asik better than Joel Anthony? yes

Is Asik better than Dexter Pittman? Yes

 

Therefore he makes them better. He's better than them even though Dexter Pittman has a scorching 68% FT percentage that would buffer them against Popovich's foolproof strategy!

 

Joel Anthony and Pittman dont make $8mil per season.

 

Do you even read the posts?

 

The entire argument Ive been making is that Asik isnt worth the Houston offer.

 

Its not, if asik is free and joel anthony is free, who is better?

 

 

[RZZZA]

Apparently people think Asik has a stub and a hook instead of hands.

 

Yeah go ahead and play 4 on 5, he's still seven feet tall and can catch the ball and dunk it occasionally.

 

Heat don't need Asik to have the ball, they have Lebron, Wade and Bosh. Between those three and ray allen/chalmers, there's 0 shot opportunities for Asik except on offensive rebounds maybe.

[Soxbadger]

YOU CAN FOUL HIM WITHOUT THE BALL DIDN"T YOU SEE POPOVICHS

 

If you already havent destroyed your credibility on NBA topics, these type of posts surely cant help.

 

[bmags]

Asik will never start on a NBA Championship team, I would bet a lot of money on that.

 

The Heat would be hurt by Asik, you would be able to put him on the foul line every possession, which will score a lot less points than LBJ/Wade/Bosh.

 

Watch what the Spurs did to a few teams, they would just foul them without the ball to make the 50% shooter go to the stripe every possession until I believe 2 minutes are remaining.

 

Nothin about money.

[ZoomSlowik]

Apparently people think Asik has a stub and a hook instead of hands.

 

Yeah go ahead and play 4 on 5, he's still seven feet tall and can catch the ball and dunk it occasionally.

 

Heat don't need Asik to have the ball, they have Lebron, Wade and Bosh. Between those three and ray allen/chalmers, there's 0 shot opportunities for Asik except on offensive rebounds maybe.

 

The Bulls were 8 points worse per 100 possessions on offense when Asik was on the floor this year, and Noah isn't exactly Wilt Chamberlain. You can absolutely cheat off him and make sure a person that can actually do something with the ball if they catch it doesn't beat you.

[Soxbadger]

Nothin about money.

Its implied

 

To get Asik youd have to pay $8mil per year.

[RZZZA]

The Bulls were 8 points worse per 100 possessions on offense when Asik was on the floor this year, and Noah isn't exactly Wilt Chamberlain. You can absolutely cheat off him and make sure a person that can actually do something with the ball if they catch it doesn't beat you.

 

I was talking about the Heat. The team that has Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Ray Allen.

 

You said Asik would not make the Heat better.

Edited July 13, 2012 by RZZZA

[Chisoxfn]

How many times has Asik been under the hoop and stone handed a pass?

 

Hes just not reliable on offense. When the Bulls have Asik on the floor, id say 80% of possessions have his man doubling someone else.

Yes, they are 30 other centers in this league that are better then him. You are correct. Most centers in this league can't score and are butterfingers. No one is saying he's Bynum. The dude would start on quite a few teams in this league and is a very capable player (despite the fact that Pop would just use a crushing defensive strategy against him).

 

Even if he dropped half of the passes, he's still getting dunks and converting at a high percentage. Plus, if teams just leave him, then he's got position for offensive boards.

[Soxbadger]

I was talking about the Heat. The team that has Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Ray Allen.

 

You said Asik would not make the Heat better.

 

Right at $8mil per year, which the Heat cant afford and would have to get rid of Lebron/Wade or Bosh, he does not make the team better.

 

Unless we are living in a fantasy world that Bmags created where another team can get Asik for free.

 

Because I agree, I want the Bulls to keep Asik for free.

 

I do not want the Bulls to keep Asik for $8mil.

[bmags]

And none of those guys are the elite defensive center/rebounder that Asik is. If Asik was on the Heat, wow, they'd dominate. He's a solid starter on the right team.

 

Again, he didn't say if Asik was on the heat at 8mill per, he said if Asik was on the heat. But you said what would hurt was not that he'd be making a lot, but that he'd be fouled 96x a game, taking away shots from LBJ, Wade, and Bosh.

[ZoomSlowik]

I was talking about the Heat. The team that has Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Ray Allen.

 

You said Asik would not make the Heat better.

 

The same thing would be true on the Heat, they can still ignore him and send another guy to discourage drives. I suppose it's a coincidence that the Heat offense was a lot better this year when they went with Batter/James as their 4's and Bosh at center, actually making you guard all 5 players.

 

Also, I didn't say it. That said, they didn't exactly struggle to defend without him.

Edited July 13, 2012 by ZoomSlowik

[Soxbadger]

Yes, they are 30 other centers in this league that are better then him. You are correct. Most centers in this league can't score and are butterfingers. No one is saying he's Bynum. The dude would start on quite a few teams in this league and is a very capable player (despite the fact that Pop would just use a crushing defensive strategy against him).

 

Even if he dropped half of the passes, he's still getting dunks and converting at a high percentage. Plus, if teams just leave him, then he's got position for offensive boards.

 

I dont even know where this is going anymore.

 

I was one of the biggest Asik supporters on this board. I got in huge fights with people about not trading Asik for Mayo or Courtney Lee.

 

The problem is Asik is not worth the contract, and that is the price the Bulls have to pay.

[RZZZA]

No you were clearly not talking about his contract, you clearly just meant skill wise, that Asik would not fit the Heat starting 5 and would make them worse.

 

 

[Soxbadger]

No you were clearly not talking about his contract, you clearly just meant skill wise, that Asik would not fit the Heat starting 5 and would make them worse.

 

NO I WAS NOT.

 

ASIK IS NOT FREE WE CAN NOT LIVE IN FANTASY LAND.

 

I ASSUMED THAT EVERYONE UNDERSTOOD ASIK HAS TO BE PAID TO PLAY.

 

Sorry I didnt make that clear, this is literally become the dumbest argument Ive had today, and I argue with stupid people for a living.

[ZoomSlowik]

Yes, they are 30 other centers in this league that are better then him. You are correct. Most centers in this league can't score and are butterfingers. No one is saying he's Bynum. The dude would start on quite a few teams in this league and is a very capable player (despite the fact that Pop would just use a crushing defensive strategy against him).

 

Even if he dropped half of the passes, he's still getting dunks and converting at a high percentage. Plus, if teams just leave him, then he's got position for offensive boards.

 

He doesn't convert at a high percentage. He only made 52% of his shots in the basket area this year, which is the kind of number that you typically see from a 6'1" point guard. The guy is absolutely awful on offense.

[RZZZA]

The same thing would be true on the Heat, they can still ignore him and send another guy to discourage drives. I suppose it's a coincidence that the Heat offense was a lot better this year when they went with Batter/James as their 4's and Bosh at center, actually making you guard all 5 players.

 

Also, I didn't say it. That said, they didn't exactly struggle to defend without him.

 

Is it realistic for a team to have 5 offensive threats on the court? In an ideal world, that would be great, to have 5 players on the court at all times that are good at both offense and defense.

 

 

[Chisoxfn]

The Bulls were 8 points worse per 100 possessions on offense when Asik was on the floor this year, and Noah isn't exactly Wilt Chamberlain. You can absolutely cheat off him and make sure a person that can actually do something with the ball if they catch it doesn't beat you.

And on the flip side, they were significantly better defensively with him on the court, to the point where he was a net gain. I've never said he's a great offensive player. I've said that on the right teams he's a good fit and as a whole he's a great bench center. I also think given the market for centers, you wouldn't have much difficulty trading him 6 months from now.

[Chisoxfn]

He doesn't convert at a high percentage. He only made 52% of his shots in the basket area this year, which is the kind of number that you typically see from a 6'1" point guard. The guy is absolutely awful on offense.

But the point is, as a 5th option, that sort of percentage is just fine, and as a whole, if your strategy is to leave him open, 52% of your shots is still > the average shooting percentage in the league (excessively) so I don't really see how it is a good strategy to keep fouling him and or letting him have dunks. Seems pretty foolish to me. On a sidenote, if you are playing the Heat, you are going to be doubling Lebron a lot no matter what (irregardless of who your center is) but no team has 5 legitimate offensive options and defensively, they'd be a lot better with a guy like Asik who could just shut down the paint.

[Soxbadger]

I just can not believe this argument.

 

At least Zoom understands so I have that going for me.

 

For comparison here is Joel Anthony's contract;

 

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jul/2...anthony-072310/

 

5 years 18mil.

 

If the Bulls could sign Asik for that, Id do it every day of the week.

 

The current offer the bulls have to match is:

 

3 years 25 mil

 

I just assume that the people in this thread know sports and know that Asik is going to cost more than 2x the amount of Anthony. So you cant say "Oh well hed improve the Heat at the expense of Anthony" because the salaries dont match.