2012-2013 NBA thread

[WHarris1]

If this was the route the Bulls were going to take why not ACTUALLY get young and athletic on the bench through purchasing second round picks or such? Rather than not actually getting young and athletic and adding Kirk Hinrich and Vladamir Radmonovic who will assuredly have no chance of being contributors on these healthy Derrick Rose teams we are planning ahead for.

 

Give a couple of guys a chance to see if maybe they can be contributors in two years, which is what we are supposedly planning for anyways. Rather than be short sighted and add age to the bench with guys who have no hope for being a part of those future teams we are aiming towards.

 

I'm just as aware as anyone else that Rose won't be back to 100% for God knows how long, but if that is the case then the direction with the bench simply doesn't make sense. There was barely any youth added to this team that you are supposedly speaking of. Jimmy Butler and Marquis Teague are the only considerable young talents on the roster and they were our last 2 draft picks.

Edited July 24, 2012 by WHarris1

[RZZZA]

If this was the route the Bulls were going to take why not ACTUALLY get young and athletic on the bench through purchasing second round picks or such? Rather than not actually getting young and athletic and adding Kirk Hinrich and Vladamir Radmonovic who will assuredly have no chance of being contributors on these healthy Derrick Rose teams we are planning ahead for.

 

Give a couple of guys a chance to see if maybe they can be contributors in two years, which is what we are supposedly planning for anyways. Rather than be short sighted and add age to the bench with guys who have no hope for being a part of those future teams we are aiming towards.

 

Because there's a difference between adding NBA ready youth and taking a chance on a raw second round pick that might not pan out.

 

Marco is a proven NBA player, and he's relatively young with room to grow. Butler, the same.

 

A 2nd round pick might end up like Teague: Young but raw and unready to contribute.

[Chisoxfn]

I hope we send him down to the D league. He's not ready for prime time.

 

Thibs is gonna play young guys, he's gonna give minutes to Butler. Jimmy has shown he can handle the NBA game, Teague has shown that he can't even handle summer league.

Asik and Taj got a ton of minutes at young ages. I don't quite understand where people think that Thibbs doesn't give young guys minutes. He's always gushed about Butler as well and I fully expect Jimmy to get minutes in year 2. The reality is Teague is very raw, so I don't see why it isn't surprising that the Bulls will use him heavily in practice and work on his game there.

 

Sometimes the worse thing you can do is just put a guy into the game too soon and let him completely stink. Can ruin confidence and hinder development. Sometimes the opposite is the case, but Teague is very raw and given how hard the Bulls practice, he'll learn a lot, even if he isn't in the games (as we've seen/heard about Butler this past year).

[WHarris1]

Because there's a difference between adding NBA ready youth and taking a chance on a raw second round pick that might not pan out.

 

Marco is a proven NBA player, and he's relatively young with room to grow. Butler, the same.

 

A 2nd round pick might end up like Teague: Young but raw and unready to contribute.

What do you have to lose? Rose likely will never be fully healthy in the window we have Belinelli signed for anyways...

[Chisoxfn]

If this was the route the Bulls were going to take why not ACTUALLY get young and athletic on the bench through purchasing second round picks or such? Rather than not actually getting young and athletic and adding Kirk Hinrich and Vladamir Radmonovic who will assuredly have no chance of being contributors on these healthy Derrick Rose teams we are planning ahead for.

 

Give a couple of guys a chance to see if maybe they can be contributors in two years, which is what we are supposedly planning for anyways. Rather than be short sighted and add age to the bench with guys who have no hope for being a part of those future teams we are aiming towards.

 

I'm just as aware as anyone else that Rose won't be back to 100% for God knows how long, but if that is the case then the direction with the bench simply doesn't make sense. There was barely any youth added to this team that you are supposedly speaking of. Jimmy Butler and Marquis Teague are the only considerable young talents on the roster and they were our last 2 draft picks.

I realize Taj is a bit older, but he's still young in NBA terms. Noah isn't old. Deng isn't even old. This team is young. Yes it has some vets around those guys, but hell, I like having quality veterans around to tutelage our players.

 

[WHarris1]

I realize Taj is a bit older, but he's still young in NBA terms. Noah isn't old. Deng isn't even old. This team is young. Yes it has some vets around those guys, but hell, I like having quality veterans around to tutelage our players.

I'm not talking about the guys who were already on the team, I'm speaking to the additions of THIS offseason.

 

If the plan is to be patient until Derrick comes back to 100% why add mostly aging veterans or guys who assuredly aren't part of your Derrick Rose plan anyways?

 

Hinrich Nazr and Vlad Rad are old and largely useless, certainly not a part of the long-term Derrick Rose return plan. Belinelli is younger but if he plays well he will likely be a mere financial casualty of a bigger plan to add a star once his contract is up anyways.

 

I'm fine with the patient approach, but it would seem to make a lot more sense to make see if we could add some pieces, take some fliers on players who at least have a shot of being a part of the core with Rose down the line.

Edited July 24, 2012 by WHarris1

[RZZZA]

Thibs is willing to give rookies some minutes if they show that they aren't a detriment to the team out there. He didn't give many minutes to James Johnson.

 

Teague, at this point, I'm afraid he'll be a detriment to the team. He can't run an offense, he can't shoot, he can't defend well and from what I saw he had trouble finishing at the rim in summer league. He's just not a good NBA player right now. Giving him minutes would be a mistake, unless the plan is to tank.

[Chisoxfn]

I'm not talking about the guys who were already on the team, I'm speaking to the additions of THIS offseason.

I didn't see marquee young talent just laying around. What do you expect, the team to be the most talented in the history of the league and every off-season being able to acquire great young talent. It doesn't happen. It takes a lot of work and the Bulls have hit on low picks better then most teams. They've hit with Thabo (whose a damn solid player for the Thunder), Asik, Taj, Butler (if he turns into even a solid bench player, thats a hit given where we picked him). Then there is Mirotic who looks like a hell of a pick at this point (still the jury is out).

 

You can't ignore that track-record. And even this year, Bell isn't exactly old. Butler is taking steps forward and as a whole the key players on the team are on the right side of 30.

[RZZZA]

Butler looks good to me, he's like the Jose Quintana of the NBA. He doesn't get rattled. He was guarding Melo in his rookie year, and doing a fine job of it. That's impressive to me. I'm glad they're telling him to be more aggressive now, because he draws fouls and makes his free throws.

 

I'm excited about watching this kid play bigger minutes

[WHarris1]

I didn't see marquee young talent just laying around. What do you expect, the team to be the most talented in the history of the league and every off-season being able to acquire great young talent. It doesn't happen. It takes a lot of work and the Bulls have hit on low picks better then most teams. They've hit with Thabo (whose a damn solid player for the Thunder), Asik, Taj, Butler (if he turns into even a solid bench player, thats a hit given where we picked him). Then there is Mirotic who looks like a hell of a pick at this point (still the jury is out).

 

You can't ignore that track-record. And even this year, Bell isn't exactly old. Butler is taking steps forward and as a whole the key players on the team are on the right side of 30.

Your first statement is a ridiculous exaggeration and demonstrates you aren't reading what i'm saying. Any young player with any talent has a better chance of being apart of the healthy-Derrick Rose Bulls than Hinrich, Vlad, Nazr so why not take a chance if you are truly building just for Rose's return? Bringing in proven re-treads does nothing to help that two year plan like a couple of young guys with at least SOME potential might.

 

It's like they are caught between two plans of trying to win now and waiting for Rose to come back. They didn't get any younger this offseason, which just doesn't make sense. Even if the younger players you acquire may be slight talent downgrades from the old balls we brought in at least it jives with this 2014 plan.

 

Maybe you find some contributors, maybe you don't, but you already KNOW that most of the guys you added this offseason have no place beyond two years and that's just a blatant fact. Might as well have seen if maybe you could find even one contributor for the future since you've already written off this season.

Edited July 24, 2012 by WHarris1

[Steve9347]

Because 2000 was pre- GarPax era, and in 2010 we got played by Lebron and Wade just like New York did.

 

 

 

It's not random at all, there's nothing random about picking Rose over Beasley, that was a sound business decision. There's nothing random about striking gold by picking Luol Deng, Joakim Noah, Taj Gibson and developing these players into contributors for an elite team in the NBA that won the #1 seed two times in a row. Like it or not, but winning the #1 seed more than once shows that we ARE a legit contender for a title. Bad teams don't play consistently well enough to win #1 seeds.

Wow. We struck gold by drafting Luol Deng, Joakim Noah, and Taj Gibson. That's awesome. Good to know. They are legit stars and that's why we're celebrating our championships!

 

As for Rose, yes, they made the right pick, but they won the draft lottery with a 1.7% chance. That's the very definition of random luck.

Edited July 24, 2012 by Steve9347

[Kyyle23]

Wow. We struck gold by drafting Luol Deng, Joakim Noah, and Taj Gibson. That's awesome.

 

As for Rose, yes, they made the right pick, but they won the draft lottery with a 1.7% chance. That's the very definition of random luck.

 

 

Dont forget the elite part. Thats awesome as well.

[Steve9347]

[southsider2k5]

What if the Bulls ended up having a season like the Spurs had when Robinson missed the year with a hurt back. They lucked into Duncan, got Robinson back healthy, and started a 2nd Spurs dynasty. By the way, just saying. Completely unlikely (unless of course Deng opts for surgery).

 

With Rose out, and Deng up in the air, you could have drawn up a pretty clear scenario to put the Bulls in a position to get a high pick next year, and still be in position to recover quickly.

[southsider2k5]

Everybody knew we'd have to take a temporary step back as soon as news of Derrick Rose's ACL injury started to trickle out. Now that it's happened, people are acting surprised.

 

Things are always darkest before the dawn.

 

Yes we got better. Replacing C.J. and Brewer makes us better. Replacing Korver with Marco makes us better. Losing Asik makes us worse, but not taking on his contract makes us better.

 

I don't think this is temporary at all.

[WHarris1]

Despite insinuations to the contrary I have nowhere suggested that:

 

-we needed to trade for a star THIS summer

-the Bulls aren't good at drafting

-the Bulls front office didn't put together a contender the last 2 years

-Derrick Rose's injury didn't destroy us

-being patient with the roster in light of Rose's injury is a bad idea

 

I'm simply saying that to go out and add mostly aging veterans and mostly guys who have literally ZERO chance of being a part of your core when Rose comes back simply doesn't jive with the overall plan the Bulls have pushed. Going into this season the only two guys who even have a chance of becoming a part of our core are Teague and Butler, both of which were draft picks. Getting younger on the bench than we did would have made a helluva lot more sense if the plan really was to just be patient until Rose comes back.

[southsider2k5]

Ok so that means you sit on your ass and do nothing to give yourself at all a better chance of contending WHEN HE DOES RETURN

 

Bingo. Forget about 2012-2013. The Bulls should have been putting themselves in the best possible position to win a title in 2013-14 and beyond. We didn't do that.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Bulls went 18-9 without Rose last year, here's my opinion on what they replaced in the Roseless lineup.

 

Butlers going to be better than Brewer. IMO

Bellinelli will be a more complete player than Korver thus making him at the very least equals with KK.

I was a CJ fan, I think Hinrich is a SLIGHT drop off.

I think Teague will be an upgrade over JL3

Nazr is a drop off defensively but may be an upgrade offensively

 

Rose is going to be back Jan-Mar so he'll have a month or 2 to knock the rust off. Bulls still have the opportunity to make a ton of noise with what they have.

 

 

[Soxbadger]

Thibs is willing to give rookies some minutes if they show that they aren't a detriment to the team out there. He didn't give many minutes to James Johnson.

 

Teague, at this point, I'm afraid he'll be a detriment to the team. He can't run an offense, he can't shoot, he can't defend well and from what I saw he had trouble finishing at the rim in summer league. He's just not a good NBA player right now. Giving him minutes would be a mistake, unless the plan is to tank.

 

The Bulls are going no where, who cares if he is a detriment to the team, he needs to get valuable NBA minutes.

 

Look at Butler's game log last year. Hed play 20+ minutes, then 0 for a few games. You have to give young guys consistent playing time. You cant have them sit a week and then play 15, to then sit another week.

 

Teague may be good, he may be bad, but he should be playing 10 minutes every night, getting consistent reps. It makes no sense to have Hinrich and other old vets taking his minutes, the Bulls are going no where with them.

[Chisoxfn]

Thibs is willing to give rookies some minutes if they show that they aren't a detriment to the team out there. He didn't give many minutes to James Johnson.

 

Teague, at this point, I'm afraid he'll be a detriment to the team. He can't run an offense, he can't shoot, he can't defend well and from what I saw he had trouble finishing at the rim in summer league. He's just not a good NBA player right now. Giving him minutes would be a mistake, unless the plan is to tank.

To be frank, it would hinder the development of other players. Plus, having vets like Hinrich and Bell makes the team better and you can still potentially use those guys as assets in S&T's and other deals in the future (or keep them since you'd retain bird rights). And both of those guys have value on a contending team. Additionally, having more quality players helps with development as practices are more intense and they have better role models to learn what the NBA is like). These are all very important qualities and part of this is why good organizations stay good and lousy organizations that consistently have top picks stay bad (guys never learn how to be successful in the NBA).

[RZZZA]

Wow. We struck gold by drafting Luol Deng, Joakim Noah, and Taj Gibson. That's awesome. Good to know. They are legit stars and that's why we're celebrating our championships!

 

As for Rose, yes, they made the right pick, but they won the draft lottery with a 1.7% chance. That's the very definition of random luck.

 

 

Malcontent.

 

Dont forget the elite part. Thats awesome as well.

 

Malcontent.

 

 

Bulls could have picked Michael Beasley instead of Derrick Rose, do you forget that? We're still an elite team in the league, nobody besides the Heat was better than the 2011 Bulls pre-injuries. Who was better than us? The mighty Thunder, who lost in 5 to the Heat? Well, we can manage to lose in 5 to the Heat just fine by ourselves, and we don't even have Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka on our team. LOL.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Your first statement is a ridiculous exaggeration and demonstrates you aren't reading what i'm saying. Any young player with any talent has a better chance of being apart of the healthy-Derrick Rose Bulls than Hinrich, Vlad, Nazr so why not take a chance if you are truly building just for Rose's return? Bringing in proven re-treads does nothing to help that two year plan like a couple of young guys with at least SOME potential might.

It's like they are caught between two plans of trying to win now and waiting for Rose to come back. They didn't get any younger this offseason, which just doesn't make sense. Even if the younger players you acquire may be slight talent downgrades from the old balls we brought in at least it jives with this 2014 plan.

 

Maybe you find some contributors, maybe you don't, but you already KNOW that most of the guys you added this offseason have no place beyond two years and that's just a blatant fact. Might as well have seen if maybe you could find even one contributor for the future since you've already written off this season.

 

For.The.Win.

[southsider2k5]

Wow. We struck gold by drafting Luol Deng, Joakim Noah, and Taj Gibson. That's awesome. Good to know. They are legit stars and that's why we're celebrating our championships!

 

As for Rose, yes, they made the right pick, but they won the draft lottery with a 1.7% chance. That's the very definition of random luck.

 

Who they drafted is a credit to the organization. Heck with Noah, most of Soxtalk wanted them to take Spencer Hawes, and hated the Noah pick. People also wanted Igodala picked instead of Lu.

 

As for the Rose part, that is spot on correct. Beating 50 to 1 odds is nothing but luck.

[RZZZA]

If you don't like Luol Deng/Joakim Noah/Taj Gibson then just gtfo, you aren't a Bulls fan. They're part of our core. If you don't like our core, don't like our team, don't like our FO, and all you do is whine about how much we suck, why are you even a Bulls fan?

[southsider2k5]

Malcontent.

 

 

 

Malcontent.

 

 

Bulls could have picked Michael Beasley instead of Derrick Rose, do you forget that? We're still an elite team in the league, nobody besides the Heat was better than the 2011 Bulls pre-injuries. Who was better than us? The mighty Thunder, who lost in 5 to the Heat? Well, we can manage to lose in 5 to the Heat just fine by ourselves, and we don't even have Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka on our team. LOL.

 

Stop the name calling.