2012-2013 NBA thread

[WHarris1]

If you don't like Luol Deng/Joakim Noah/Taj Gibson then just gtfo, you aren't a Bulls fan. They're part of our core. If you don't like our core, don't like our team, don't like our FO, and all you do is whine about how much we suck, why are you even a Bulls fan?

Who in God's name said they didn't like Deng Noah and Gibson?

[RZZZA]

Who they drafted is a credit to the organization. Heck with Noah, most of Soxtalk wanted them to take Spencer Hawes, and hated the Noah pick. People also wanted Igodala picked instead of Lu.

 

As for the Rose part, that is spot on correct. Beating 50 to 1 odds is nothing but luck.

 

It's not luck though that we drafted Rose, there were arguments at the time about who was better, Rose or Beasley. We needed a PF at the time too. And it's also not luck that we developed Rose into an elite superstar type of player. Beasley went to Miami, and floundered. We draft and develop young talent, we're really good at that, that's not luck at all.

[southsider2k5]

If you don't like Luol Deng/Joakim Noah/Taj Gibson then just gtfo, you aren't a Bulls fan. They're part of our core. If you don't like our core, don't like our team, don't like our FO, and all you do is whine about how much we suck, why are you even a Bulls fan?

 

Newsflash: You can not like the direction of the team, and still be a fan of it.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Haha. More chaos. This is fun.

[southsider2k5]

It's not luck though that we drafted Rose, there were arguments at the time about who was better, Rose or Beasley. We needed a PF at the time too. And it's also not luck that we developed Rose into an elite superstar type of player. Beasley went to Miami, and floundered. We draft and develop young talent, we're really good at that, that's not luck at all.

 

There might have been idiots like Steven S Smith saying that, but there was zero chance the Bulls were drafting Beasley. Some scenarios like Hawes instead of Noah are realistic, but not Beasley instead of Rose. That was never going to happen as long as the Bulls had the number one pick. If it were a realistic sceario, remember the Miami Heat wanted Rose incredibly bad. If the Bulls had any serious considerations about Beasley they could have easily swapped picks with the Heat, and gotten something out it while still getting their top target. Instead they sat on Rose.

 

End of story.

[Chisoxfn]

Despite insinuations to the contrary I have nowhere suggested that:

 

-we needed to trade for a star THIS summer

-the Bulls aren't good at drafting

-the Bulls front office didn't put together a contender the last 2 years

-Derrick Rose's injury didn't destroy us

-being patient with the roster in light of Rose's injury is a bad idea

 

I'm simply saying that to go out and add mostly aging veterans and mostly guys who have literally ZERO chance of being a part of your core when Rose comes back simply doesn't jive with the overall plan the Bulls have pushed. Going into this season the only two guys who even have a chance of becoming a part of our core are Teague and Butler, both of which were draft picks. Getting younger on the bench than we did would have made a helluva lot more sense if the plan really was to just be patient until Rose comes back.

Bellinelli and Hinrich aren't exactly again veterans. Hinrich is older, however, I won't be surprised if he's still in the league 4 years from now. Bellinari is 26 or so. He's in his prime years and should be for at least 4-5 years. Radmonovich, yes, he's and old decaying player who isn't very good (hits some threes and thats about it). However, signing him was what it was. The Bulls are still trying to sign Malcom Thomas. Isn't he the definition of the type of player you are talking about?

 

I just don't see what the Bulls missed out on. If anything they have 2 guys in Hinrich and Bell who can be solid bench players from 3-6 years (depending on whether it is Bell or Hinrich). That falls pretty nicely with that 2013 or 2014 window. And you might say, well, Bell signed a one year deal. Sure he did, but the Bulls will be able to sign him for more years if they want to (or he can be signed as part of a S&T and thus used as an asset later on). Heck, he might even have value to another contender and can be cut in a deadline move.

 

Look, you are proposing going out and signing crappy 2nd round picks. That doesn't seem like too good of a strategy. Putting good young players with piece of garbage young players could actually hinder and have a negative impact on the young players growth. Additionally, the Bulls still have to make money and want to put as solid of a team forward. They have every intent of making the playoffs and I think part of that is they want the perception to be a playoff team without Rose, so that when they got Rose back and are looking for a 2nd star, said 2nd star will be pretty giddy about the Bulls chances, knowing they were a playoff team without its best player (and are trying to bring in X to be the 2nd star), which would probably make them immediate title contenders again.

[RZZZA]

You GTFO saying I'm not a Bulls fan because I don't suck the collective dicks of every player in a f***ing Bulls jersey. I watched the f***ing Bulls, every game, when E-Rob was our f***ing star. Don't you ever think that just because I believe the Bulls can be a better team that I'm not a Bulls fan.

 

That's it, you've earned ignore status. You're nothing but a blind homer, but you're actually worse than Greg, because you start this s*** up on purpose and throw in name-calling and claim anyone who disagrees with you isn't a fan.

 

You GTFO. Immediately. (ignored) You're lucky I'm not in charge, because this name-calling and starting s*** non-stop would be "peace-mode" for you in a suspension if not a ban.

 

Let's hug it out bro, we may disagree vehemently but I have nothing against you.

[WHarris1]

Bellinelli and Hinrich aren't exactly again veterans. Hinrich is older, however, I won't be surprised if he's still in the league 4 years from now. Bellinari is 26 or so. He's in his prime years and should be for at least 4-5 years. Radmonovich, yes, he's and old decaying player who isn't very good (hits some threes and thats about it). However, signing him was what it was. The Bulls are still trying to sign Malcom Thomas. Isn't he the definition of the type of player you are talking about?

 

I just don't see what the Bulls missed out on. If anything they have 2 guys in Hinrich and Bell who can be solid bench players from 3-6 years (depending on whether it is Bell or Hinrich). That falls pretty nicely with that 2013 or 2014 window. And you might say, well, Bell signed a one year deal. Sure he did, but the Bulls will be able to sign him for more years if they want to (or he can be signed as part of a S&T and thus used as an asset later on). Heck, he might even have value to another contender and can be cut in a deadline move.

 

Look, you are proposing going out and signing crappy 2nd round picks. That doesn't seem like too good of a strategy. Putting good young players with piece of garbage young players could actually hinder and have a negative impact on the young players growth. Additionally, the Bulls still have to make money and want to put as solid of a team forward. They have every intent of making the playoffs and I think part of that is they want the perception to be a playoff team without Rose, so that when they got Rose back and are looking for a 2nd star, said 2nd star will be pretty giddy about the Bulls chances, knowing they were a playoff team without its best player (and are trying to bring in X to be the 2nd star), which would probably make them immediate title contenders again.

Dude, Hinrich is not good. Every team he has played for for the last 3 years has been worse offensively and defensively with him on the floor and if we have any expectation of him being on our roster in 3 years that is awful.

 

Malcom Thomas is EXACTLY the type of player I am talking about. One can only hope that he signs with the Bulls and not one of the other teams pursuing him. Thank you for the ideal example, that's what we should be look at not frickin Nazr and Vlad and Hinrich.

Edited July 24, 2012 by WHarris1

[Kyyle23]

Malcontent.

 

Realist. Some of us are buying what Garpax are selling

 

 

Others, have seen this story before. Like about 6 years ago when Ben, Lou, and Kirk were the up and coming core that was untouchable. It got us NOTHING.

 

 

But please, tell me about this great playmaker next to Rose named Patrick Beverley some more.

[Chisoxfn]

Who they drafted is a credit to the organization. Heck with Noah, most of Soxtalk wanted them to take Spencer Hawes, and hated the Noah pick. People also wanted Igodala picked instead of Lu.

 

As for the Rose part, that is spot on correct. Beating 50 to 1 odds is nothing but luck.

And at the time, it was pretty 50/50 on who the 1st pick should be. In fact, early on, most everyone thought Beasley was a consensus #1. Bulls might have lucked into the pick, but they also made the right basketball decision and took Rose.

[RZZZA]

Realist. Some of us have their heads far up GarPax asses and buy into what they are selling.

 

 

 

Others, have seen this story before. Like about 6 years ago when Ben, Lou, and Kirk were the up and coming core that was untouchable. It got us NOTHING.

 

 

But please, tell me about this great playmaker next to Rose named Patrick Beverley some more.

 

I don't understand what you're expecting really, besides being an elite team that contends for a title every year. The Thunder have 3 young super stars and they lost to the Heat in 5 just like we did.

 

Do you expect us to be the Heat? We can't. Not every team in the NBA can be a Miami Heat. Those guys colluded to go to South Beach, they took pay cuts.

 

We assembled a team we mostly drafted and developed ourselves and we became an elite team in the league, nobody is better than us when we're healthy (except arguably the Heat). There's lots to be proud of here. I love our guys, I love our core, I think we can win with this core.

[southsider2k5]

I don't understand what you're expecting really, besides being an elite team that contends for a title every year. The Thunder have 3 young super stars and they lost to the Heat in 5 just like we did.

 

Do you expect us to be the Heat? We can't. Not every team in the NBA can be a Miami Heat. Those guys colluded to go to South Beach, they took pay cuts.

 

We assembled a team we mostly drafted and developed ourselves and we became an elite team in the league, nobody is better than us when we're healthy (except arguably the Heat). There's lots to be proud of here. I love our guys, I love our core, I think we can win with this core.

 

In the NBA as it is configured today, and figuring that Howard is going to be in LA or Brooklyn before the season starts, I can safely say this Bulls team as it is currently configured, will NEVER win an NBA title.

[RZZZA]

In the NBA as it is configured today, and figuring that Howard is going to be in LA or Brooklyn before the season starts, I can safely say this Bulls team as it is currently configured, will NEVER win an NBA title.

 

But can we win a title if we keep the core of Rose/Noah/Taj and switch Boozer and Deng for better players? Because I take it that's the long term plan going forward.

[WHarris1]

Bottom line: everything I hear is 2014 2014, be patient wait 2 years, Rose coming back, etc. 3 of our 4 primary offseason acquisitions (Nazr Mohammed, Vlad Radmanovic, & Kirk Hinrich) merely fit with this plan because they will all assuredly be gone by then. That doesn't strike me as a POSITIVE offseason, which is all I asserted from the beginning. Doesn't seem ridiculous to question the direction that was executed this offseason. Doesn't mean the entire next 5 years are wasted, not everything could have been solved this summer regardless. But none of these acquisitions are even relevant to the long-term plan.

[Chisoxfn]

I are frustrate.

 

Fine. The Bulls are great. Yay, I'm super happy.

No one said you had to be happy. You can disagree. Nothing about your post had anything to do with the discussion. I don't get how hard it is to see that. Its the exact type of crap that derails threads. Not to mention, you don't have to sell your fandom to anyone. We all know, without any doubt, that you are a diehard fan of the Bulls.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Bulls are gonna be just fine.

[Chisoxfn]

Bottom line: everything I hear is 2014 2014, be patient wait 2 years, Rose coming back, etc. 3 of our 4 primary offseason acquisitions (Nazr Mohammed, Vlad Radmanovic, & Kirk Hinrich) merely fit with this plan because they will all assuredly be gone by then. That doesn't strike me as a POSITIVE offseason, which is all I asserted from the beginning. Doesn't seem ridiculous to question the direction that was executed this offseason. Doesn't mean the entire next 5 years are wasted, not everything could have been solved this summer regardless. But none of these acquisitions are even relevant to the long-term plan.

Completely understand where you are coming from. I think despite having a more long-term plan, I believe you still have to make decisions for the current rosters.

[Quin]

 

Also, Bulls are going to be wearing the 90's alternate (black pinstripes!)

[RZZZA]

Bottom line: everything I hear is 2014 2014, be patient wait 2 years, Rose coming back, etc. 3 of our 4 primary offseason acquisitions (Nazr Mohammed, Vlad Radmanovic, & Kirk Hinrich) merely fit with this plan because they will all assuredly be gone by then. That doesn't strike me as a POSITIVE offseason, which is all I asserted from the beginning. Doesn't seem ridiculous to question the direction that was executed this offseason. Doesn't mean the entire next 5 years are wasted, not everything could have been solved this summer regardless. But none of these acquisitions are even relevant to the long-term plan.

 

Yeah, I feel you there. I don't see how the Nazr signing is a good one either. I'm very concerned about our PG and C depth going forward.

[Steve9347]

Bottom line: everything I hear is 2014 2014, be patient wait 2 years, Rose coming back, etc. 3 of our 4 primary offseason acquisitions (Nazr Mohammed, Vlad Radmanovic, & Kirk Hinrich) merely fit with this plan because they will all assuredly be gone by then. That doesn't strike me as a POSITIVE offseason, which is all I asserted from the beginning. Doesn't seem ridiculous to question the direction that was executed this offseason. Doesn't mean the entire next 5 years are wasted, not everything could have been solved this summer regardless. But none of these acquisitions are even relevant to the long-term plan.

My big issue is - The Bulls are playing for 2014. So Why are we not gutting this team for this coming year and creating future cap space and the possibility of an elite player from coming drafts?

[Kyyle23]

I don't understand what you're expecting really, besides being an elite team that contends for a title every year. The Thunder have 3 young super stars and they lost to the Heat in 5 just like we did.

 

Do you expect us to be the Heat? We can't. Not every team in the NBA can be a Miami Heat. Those guys colluded to go to South Beach, they took pay cuts.

 

We assembled a team we mostly drafted and developed ourselves and we became an elite team in the league, nobody is better than us when we're healthy (except arguably the Heat). There's lots to be proud of here. I love our guys, I love our core, I think we can win with this core.

 

This team is not an elite team, Im sorry. They just are not. Derrick is an elite player that elevates the talent around him, but he needs help and the FO has to understand that.

 

 

This offseason is not helping him. This offseason is just collecting odd parts and throwing them out on the court and hoping that when Derrick comes back, they are as good as the bench mob.

 

Teams like LA, Boston, Dallas, and now Miami are elite because they dont wait for good things to happen to their team(like waiting for Rose). They MAKE things happen. Im sorry you dont see that and you keep thinking "well if we wait they will all get better." It simply doesnt work that way in the NBA.

[Steve9347]

Also, Bulls are going to be wearing the 90's alternate (black pinstripes!)

I had a Rodman in those. It disintegrated sometime in the early 2000's. The black with red pinstripes blows the shiny black away anyday.

[WHarris1]

Completely understand where you are coming from. I think despite having a more long-term plan, I believe you still have to make decisions for the current rosters.

That's perfectly fine and that's why Jerry Reinsdorf makes a considerable amount of money from the Bulls as he produces a competitive team but still manages to cut costs. I am fine with the costs that were cut, just would have liked to see a little more headway down the 2014 path, if that is indeed the direction we are heading.

[2nd_city_saint787]

My big issue is - The Bulls are playing for 2014. So Why are we not gutting this team for this coming year and creating future cap space and the possibility of an elite player from coming drafts?

 

Because IMO there's still hope this year when Rose comes back.

[southsider2k5]

But can we win a title if we keep the core of Rose/Noah/Taj and switch Boozer and Deng for better players? Because I take it that's the long term plan going forward.

 

If that was the plan, this was the year to do it.

 

-Let Rose sit out as much of this year as possible

-Let Deng play the Olympics, and then have him undergo his wrist surgery. Also rest as much of the season as possible.

-With the idiotic contracts given to C's this year, see what the market is for Noah. If it is middle lottery-ish pick, and there is a player there the Bulls think is a future cornerstone, make the deal.

-They should have signed Asik to a deal long before now. Even after his offersheet, they should have traded him for something.

-Sign Taj long term.

-trade any of the bench mob for any picks.

-Amnesty Boozer.

 

-Coming back you have the lottery pick from Noah. You still have Rose, Deng, Taj, and anyone left over. There are also any other picks you got, the pick from Charlotte coming in the future, plus probably another high pick after this season. You also have the Mirotic kid coming over in a year or two. You get any progress from Butler Teague, and any of the other young Bulls.