2012-2013 NBA thread

[Jake]

Some would say that the only 2 places in the league that aren't terrible are winning 60+ games and winning 13 games, because the worst place you can be is winning 40 games and over the cap.

 

Luckily, when we reach the playoffs we'll be a 60 win caliber team.

[Chisoxfn]

Pyrz is not even comparable to Asik. He is the last man off the bench kind of center. Thats it.

[ZoomSlowik]

Luckily, when we reach the playoffs we'll be a 60 win caliber team.

 

IF they're healthy. That's a pretty big asumption given their best player is out until at least March and their other four starters have all had injury issues in the past.

[Balta1701]

IF they're healthy. That's a pretty big asumption given their best player is out until at least March and their other four starters have all had injury issues in the past.

And their PF is now even older than he was previously...and the bench appears thinner.

[Steve9347]

Pyrz is not even comparable to Asik. He is the last man off the bench kind of center. Thats it.

He is, admittedly, better than Scal!

[bmags]

Who gives a flying f*** about hypotheticals? Rose really did tear his ACL and won't be his old self for a while, and the Heat still won with Bosh, their only good big man, playing 30 minutes across 11 games and at less than 100% for the rest of the playoffs. Oh, and the Heat have every important player back and added Ray Allen to hit wide open 3's all year.

 

Seriously, the last two years don't matter. They didn't win, now it's time to move on from that and prepare for when Rose is healthy again.

 

This thread does a great job of making a silly argument, then arguing that we shouldn't be talking about the argument.

 

The point remains that there were two hypothetical places the bulls could go this offseason:

stand pat

firesale

 

Even though you can't run your org based on the feelings of your players, I can't imagine how Rose would react to them trading away all of his good teammates after he signed a contract. Now he has a legitimate reason to bust his ass to come back better and stronger: one last run with his teammates. Even with all of his competitiveness, I cant imagine what it would feel like to bust your ass year round to get back, after busting your ass for 3 years for the org, only to have it be for a lottery team.

 

The only truly best of both worlds argument would be a Howard trade, where if he leaves you have salary cap relief, if he stays you have the best C int he game. But I just can't imagine the Magic wanting a package of above average, well-paid players in exchange for Howard. They clearly want flexibility, something the Bulls can't really provide.

 

I'd love to hear a legit alternative. But it really just seems like the issue is the bulls didn't sign mayo. But oh well. He doesn't really change the trajectory of the bulls path, anyway.

 

 

[ZoomSlowik]

This thread does a great job of making a silly argument, then arguing that we shouldn't be talking about the argument.This thread does a great job of making a silly argument, then arguing that we shouldn't be talking about the argument.

 

The point remains that there were two hypothetical places the bulls could go this offseason:

stand pat

firesale

 

Even though you can't run your org based on the feelings of your players, I can't imagine how Rose would react to them trading away all of his good teammates after he signed a contract. Now he has a legitimate reason to bust his ass to come back better and stronger: one last run with his teammates. Even with all of his competitiveness, I cant imagine what it would feel like to bust your ass year round to get back, after busting your ass for 3 years for the org, only to have it be for a lottery team.

 

The only truly best of both worlds argument would be a Howard trade, where if he leaves you have salary cap relief, if he stays you have the best C int he game. But I just can't imagine the Magic wanting a package of above average, well-paid players in exchange for Howard. They clearly want flexibility, something the Bulls can't really provide.

 

I'd love to hear a legit alternative. But it really just seems like the issue is the bulls didn't sign mayo. But oh well. He doesn't really change the trajectory of the bulls path, anyway.

 

Says the guy that brought up the silly argument about what would have happened if Rose didn't get hurt and Bosh still did.

 

None of us can say with any certainty what deals were really on the table, so it's impossible to know how feasibly some of the plans of attack were. If someone says we should have dealt Deng for a lottery pick, the easy response is "was that trade there?" We can only go on what actually happened, which is virtually nothing.

 

One thing that did seem feasible though would have been getting Mayo, someone that actually could have made a difference when Rose is healthy, instead of splurging on a fading veteran stop-gap at the PG spot. Mayo at least has a chance of making a difference in their championship chase once Rose is healthy, Hinrich won't. You weren't exactly going to get another Kobe with their money, but a young, talented player would have been a much better choice.

 

There may have been other options to add a potential long-term answer (maybe Gerald Green, he went for about $3 mil, is talented, and was good in NJ), I don't totally know what was on the table. Hinrich was pretty clearly a move made to try to tread water when Rose is out though, which shouldn't have been their top priority.

Edited July 30, 2012 by ZoomSlowik

[bmags]

Says the guy that brought up the silly argument about what would have happened if Rose didn't get hurt and Bosh still did.

 

None of us can say with any certainty what deals were really on the table, so it's impossible to know how feasibly some of the plans of attack were. If someone says we should have dealt Deng for a lottery pick, the easy response is "was that trade there?" We can only go on what actually happened, which is virtually nothing.

 

One thing that did seem feasible though would have been getting Mayo, someone that actually could have made a difference when Rose is healthy, instead of splurging on a fading veteran stop-gap at the PG spot. Mayo at least has a chance of making a difference in their championship chase once Rose is healthy, Hinrich won't. You weren't exactly going to get another Kobe with their money, but a young, talented player would have been a much better choice.

 

There may have been other options to add a potential long-term answer, I don't totally know what was on the table. Hinrich was pretty clearly a move made to try to tread water when Rose is out though, which shouldn't have been their top priority.

 

No, I was responding to J4L acting like it was ridiculous anyone could have defeated the heat this year, when they were very vulnerable up until game 6 of the ECF. People shouldn't make claims like "Bulls weren't title contenders" and then when challeneged say "It doesn't matter about what they WERE". If it didn't matter than it shouldn't constantly be stated.

[ZoomSlowik]

No, I was responding to J4L acting like it was ridiculous anyone could have defeated the heat this year, when they were very vulnerable up until game 6 of the ECF. People shouldn't make claims like "Bulls weren't title contenders" and then when challeneged say "It doesn't matter about what they WERE". If it didn't matter than it shouldn't constantly be stated.

 

That's JFL. I've been saying for several pages that what happened in the past doesn't really matter.

[bmags]

That's JFL. I've been saying for several pages that what happened in the past doesn't really matter.

 

Fair enough. I'd prefer Mayo over Hinrich. Especially after we saw Watson get the vet min. I have a hard time believing we couldn't find a PG of Watson quality to cover our asses this season without putting any resources into it. But, next year we have a bunch of expiring contracts plus the amnesty. I'm not really convinced we should follow the model of "bulls failed in 00 and 10 therefore can never land anyone big", I think if we get flexibilty there will be people who will come to Chicago to play with Rose and in Chicago.

[ZoomSlowik]

Fair enough. I'd prefer Mayo over Hinrich. Especially after we saw Watson get the vet min. I have a hard time believing we couldn't find a PG of Watson quality to cover our asses this season without putting any resources into it. But, next year we have a bunch of expiring contracts plus the amnesty. I'm not really convinced we should follow the model of "bulls failed in 00 and 10 therefore can never land anyone big", I think if we get flexibilty there will be people who will come to Chicago to play with Rose and in Chicago.

 

The problem is they wouldn't really have any space unless they dumped multiple players. Even with Boozer gone, Rose/Deng/Noah is already $42 million. Then you add Kirk's deal ( <_ taj qualifying offer and several draft picks vet minimum holds they have minimal space. deng deal expires which would be their best shot at cap space unless to match a stupid-high for taj.>

Edited July 30, 2012 by ZoomSlowik

[Balta1701]

The problem is they wouldn't really have any space unless they dumped multiple players. Even with Boozer gone, Rose/Deng/Noah is already $42 million. Then you add Kirk's deal ( <_ taj qualifying offer and several draft picks vet minimum holds they have minimal space. deng deal expires which would be their best shot at cap space>unless they have to match a stupid-high offer for Taj.

I think it's perfectly logical to assume the offer to Taj will be stupid-high next offseason.

[ZoomSlowik]

I think it's perfectly logical to assume the offer to Taj will be stupid-high next offseason.

 

By "stupid-high", I mean significantly more than $8 mil a year. Unless I'm missing something, Rose+Noah+$8 mil for Taj+4 rookie contracts (Butler, Teague, next two 1sts)= roughly $44 million. Obviously there would be some cap holds as well, but that's around $10 mil in space. The big variable there is what happens with Taj.

[bmags]

The problem is they wouldn't really have any space unless they dumped multiple players. Even with Boozer gone, Rose/Deng/Noah is already $42 million. Then you add Kirk's deal ( <_ taj qualifying offer and several draft picks vet minimum holds they have minimal space. deng deal expires which would be their best shot at cap space unless to match a stupid-high for taj.>

 

If you want to move deng though, it's a lot easier next year when he has an expiring contract. At that point, Noah and Rose are your only bigger contracts, and then you have the option with Taj on what you want to do.

[ZoomSlowik]

If you want to move deng though, it's a lot easier next year when he has an expiring contract. At that point, Noah and Rose are your only bigger contracts, and then you have the option with Taj on what you want to do.

 

Well, yeah, moving Deng would be important, though he'd be far more useful in taking someone on in a trade than as a pure salary dump.

[Steve9347]

The Bulls have apparently signed Nate Robinson.

[Kyyle23]

The Bulls have apparently signed Nate Robinson.

 

dont panic. this roster is younger and more athletic

[Steve9347]

The Bulls' strength (their bench) is swiftly becoming a liability. Someone remind me why a mini-tear down didn't happen?

[Balta1701]

By "stupid-high", I mean significantly more than $8 mil a year. Unless I'm missing something, Rose+Noah+$8 mil for Taj+4 rookie contracts (Butler, Teague, next two 1sts)= roughly $44 million. Obviously there would be some cap holds as well, but that's around $10 mil in space. The big variable there is what happens with Taj.

Taj is going to get significantly more than $8 mil a year if he hits the open market. Count on it.

 

 

[chw42]

The Bulls have apparently signed Nate Robinson.

 

Wow, seriously?

 

We have our starting PG then!

 

Honestly though, I think Robinson's an upgrade over Watson. C.J. shot like s*** in his first year. He started out last year shooting well, then fell off a cliff when he got extended playing time.

Edited July 30, 2012 by chw42

[bmags]

nate robinson?

[Jake]

I think our bench is better.

 

 

[Balta1701]

Honestly though, I think Robinson's an upgrade over Watson. C.J. shot like s*** in his first year. He started out last year shooting well, then fell off a cliff when he got extended playing time.hurt and had to play through it since Rose was also hurt.

To be fair, fixed that for you.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I think our bench is better.

 

:lolhitting

[RZZZA]

Kirk is an upgrade over Watson. And Nate is a big upgrade over Lucas.