bmags Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I'm not sure a SG will be the answer to the Bulls problems. The SG position sucks right now, would much rather re-structure with a more offensively gifted SF or PF that has a different skillset than boozer and can play better D than to make some super backcourt. I'd say the one superstar that hasn't made his move yet that would put the bulls at the top would be Love. He signed a contract but already is discontent with the roster moves. If there's anything Kahn loves, it's assets to acquire to do nothing with. We just need love to get very whiney and say he wants Chicago. Otherwise he'll probably end up on the lakers in 2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 And Derrick Rose is there to generate a lot of good shots on the Bulls. Your logic is weird. He does everything a #1 option does, but because he's on a really good team he's not good enough for the Bulls. OKC is one of like 4 teams where he wouldn't be the primary scorer/shot-creator on the perimeter. They don't need him to be a "true #1" anyways, that's what Rose is for. I don't think Harden could ever be a legit #1 option. But we'll agree to disagree. Give me a guy like Gordon who's had higher USG than Harden has ever seen, and still managed to put up great stats over a guy like Harden who's only efficient because he hits his open 3's and is good at flopping and getting to the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Well if I can have any one in the world, id take Kevin Durant or Lebron James. Reasonable ideas, Id want Jeremy Lamb from Houston, or another guy at SG with good length who could also score out of the SF position. A cheap option would be a guy like Xavier Henry. The Bulls need to be looking at guys who are 1-2 years out of college who havent put it together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 31, 2012 -> 03:27 PM) I'm not sure a SG will be the answer to the Bulls problems. The SG position sucks right now, would much rather re-structure with a more offensively gifted SF or PF that has a different skillset than boozer and can play better D than to make some super backcourt. I'd say the one superstar that hasn't made his move yet that would put the bulls at the top would be Love. He signed a contract but already is discontent with the roster moves. If there's anything Kahn loves, it's assets to acquire to do nothing with. We just need love to get very whiney and say he wants Chicago. Otherwise he'll probably end up on the lakers in 2 years. And honestly, in a year or two, the Bulls would be in a position to make that happen if Love demanded a trade. Deng and Boozer would close in on expiring, the Bobcats pick would become closer to reality. Shame that Love can't hatch a scheme with Rose at the Olympics to get himself to Chicago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 31, 2012 -> 02:27 PM) I'm not sure a SG will be the answer to the Bulls problems. The SG position sucks right now, would much rather re-structure with a more offensively gifted SF or PF that has a different skillset than boozer and can play better D than to make some super backcourt. I'd say the one superstar that hasn't made his move yet that would put the bulls at the top would be Love. He signed a contract but already is discontent with the roster moves. If there's anything Kahn loves, it's assets to acquire to do nothing with. We just need love to get very whiney and say he wants Chicago. Otherwise he'll probably end up on the lakers in 2 years. Well, yeah, if you can get Love you do it. He's pretty unique though, he's a PF that can spread the floor and doesn't need a steady diet of post-ups to get points. If you got someone like Pau or Bynum, you'd still need to find someone on the perimeter that can make a few shots. I'm not sure how many answers you'd find at SF beyond Lebron and Durant. Most of the better 3's (Iggy, Gay, Granger, now Batum) are quite overpaid, and while I'd love Gallinari for his shooting, his contract is too big a bargain to be moved. I'd take those guys over Deng, but I'm not totally sure how much that helps you. Picking up Barnes or Lamb in the draft certainly would have been interesting, but I have no idea if that would have been feasible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 No Bulls fan should ever want Lebron James in a Bulls uniform and besides, Derrick would never want to play with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 If you want a stretch 4, I suggest Jon Leuer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Isn't Mirotic gonna be our stretch 4 of the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Mirotic is still in Europe, Ive never seen him play so I cant compare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 31, 2012 -> 02:30 PM) I don't think Harden could ever be a legit #1 option. But we'll agree to disagree. Give me a guy like Gordon who's had higher USG than Harden has ever seen, and still managed to put up great stats over a guy like Harden who's only efficient because he hits his open 3's and is good at flopping and getting to the line. So you'd pass on Manu too then? He has basically the same profile but has been an extremely important player on multiple championship team. There would still be plenty of open 3's to be had off Rose drives, and he is an effective finisher as well. I don't really care how he gets his free throws as long as he does. I love Eric Gordon (ask Steve about that), but a lot of that is opportunity for shots. Harden had a TS% of 66 this year, he could take a massive drop with those extra shots and still be comparable to Gordon's efficiency. It would also help if Gordon could put together two seasons in a row without missing at least 20 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I thought he meant Ben Gordon haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 31, 2012 -> 02:36 PM) No Bulls fan should ever want Lebron James in a Bulls uniform and besides, Derrick would never want to play with him. Then it would be time to trade Derrick Rose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 So you'd pass on Manu too then? He has basically the same profile but has been an extremely important player on multiple championship team. There would still be plenty of open 3's to be had off Rose drives, and he is an effective finisher as well. I don't really care how he gets his free throws as long as he does. I love Eric Gordon (ask Steve about that), but a lot of that is opportunity for shots. Harden had a TS% of 66 this year, he could take a massive drop with those extra shots and still be comparable to Gordon's efficiency. It would also help if Gordon could put together two seasons in a row without missing at least 20 games. I'll think a lot more of Harden as soon as his USG rate climbs and he still manages to remain efficient. Right now he has no mid range game, he takes 10 shots per game, he's a bench role player. He's not comparable at all imo to guys like Gordon or Monta or even to Manu whom you just compared him to. Those guys have all been much more integral parts to their teams offense than Harden has ever been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) Big difference between Manu and Harden: Manu has elite efficiency with a USG rate nearer to 30. Harden has elite efficiency with a USG rate near 20. Thats who we need imo, a high USG guy whose %ast stat is low. Harden is the opposite of that. Then it would be time to trade Derrick Rose. Bite your tongue Edited July 31, 2012 by RZZZA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 31, 2012 -> 02:49 PM) I'll think a lot more of Harden as soon as his USG rate climbs and he still manages to remain efficient. Right now he has no mid range game, he takes 10 shots per game, he's a bench role player. He's not comparable at all imo to guys like Gordon or Monta or even to Manu whom you just compared him to. Those guys have all been much more integral parts to their teams offense than Harden has ever been. Let's see, 6'5" quirky left-handed #3 scorer that doesn't start on a really good team, has never averaged more than 31 MPG, has never taken more than 13.3 shots and has averaged 10.7 shots for his career. Only has two seasons in his career with a scoring average over 16.5. No, Manu's career line isn't remotely comparable to Harden. I don't think you've ever actually seen Monta Ellis play. He doesn't even try on defense and he takes a lot of horrible shots. Ever since he decided he can shoot, his TS% has been below average to horrible. A lot of guys would put up points if they shot 20 times a game, but most guys have a conscience. He's a REALLY good driver, but the rest of his game kills any benefit you derive from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 QUOTE (ZoomSlowik @ Jul 31, 2012 -> 04:03 PM) I don't think you've ever actually seen Monta Ellis play. He doesn't even try on defense and he takes a lot of horrible shots. Ever since he decided he can shoot, his TS% has been below average to horrible. A lot of guys would put up points if they shot 20 times a game, but most guys have a conscience. He's a REALLY good driver, but the rest of his game kills any benefit you derive from it. My Q with him is "how much of this is because of where he's been stuck playing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 31, 2012 -> 02:53 PM) Big difference between Manu and Harden: Manu has elite efficiency with a USG rate nearer to 30. Harden has elite efficiency with a USG rate near 20. Thats who we need imo, a high USG guy whose %ast stat is low. Harden is the opposite of that I don't think you're looking at the right profile. Manu has never had a usage rate of 30, his career high is 27. Most years he's between 22 and 25. You absolutely don't want a guy with a high usage rate. Why would you want that when you already have Rose, who tied for second in the league in usage rate? Why would you want two guys fighting over the ball? Unless you're getting rid of Rose, you want efficiency, not usage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoomSlowik Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2012 -> 03:06 PM) My Q with him is "how much of this is because of where he's been stuck playing". He was far worse on the Bucks playing with Brandon Jennings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 When was the last time Manu had a USG at 20? For his career, his USG is much closer to 26+. I'm sorry but if Harden wants to be a Manu, he needs to have much more of the teams offense run through him. Also needs some type of mid range game. He doesn't get to just sit back and take open 3's his entire career and play a role players type of role for all his years then just have his game be compared to Manu's. That's an insult to Manu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Harden led the NBA in 4th quarter FTs this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 I don't think you're looking at the right profile. Manu has never had a usage rate of 30, his career high is 27. Most years he's between 22 and 25. You absolutely don't want a guy with a high usage rate. Why would you want that when you already have Rose, who tied for second in the league in usage rate? Why would you want two guys fighting over the ball? Unless you're getting rid of Rose, you want efficiency, not usage. A high USG rate indicates a guy who has proven that he can be a #1 option. Thats exactly who we want, a #1 option who can be our #2 option. Someone who can take the game over when Rose is having a bad day. Another star to face the Heat. I think you're the one looking at the wrong thing. http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Manu%20Ginobili 2007 27 USG 2008 28.69 USG 2009 27 USG and elite efficiency to match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZZZA Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 He was far worse on the Bucks playing with Brandon Jennings. he played 21 games with the bucks doe...we really gonna judge a guy who was traded midseason and played only 21 games with his new team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 @KCJHoop After Nate Robinson signing, Bulls are either done or might add Tracy McGrady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 goin for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 31, 2012 -> 03:36 PM) @KCJHoop After Nate Robinson signing, Bulls are either done or might add Tracy McGrady. Tracy McGrady? I'm just going to pretend I never saw this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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