2012-2013 NBA thread

[2nd_city_saint787]

Taj would have to want to get to free agency to see if he can convince somebody to give him a huge, near-max deal

 

 

More power to him then...Hopefully he just likes it here in Chicago and hooks it up with a discount.

[Balta1701]

Why not? Chances are Boozers gonna be amnestied next year so he'll have a starting gig here more than likely. Unless of course the plans to get Kevin Love (Hes made it known hes not happy in MN, and he wants to play with Rose) in a trade next year. Even then he'd be a good piece to move in such a deal, Taj, Deng and picks for Love wouldnt be a bad deal for both teams.

 

Just a pipe dream of course but if we can pull that off and get Harden next year I'd probably s*** myself and film it for everyone to see.

 

Zoom is there anyway Rose-Harden-Butler-Love-Noah would work money wise??

Boozer being amnestied still will mean that the Bulls will need to pay Boozer $30 million...

 

but more importantly than that, Taj is going to be offered stupid money. Fair money for Asik, IMO, was close to the MLE, maybe slightly above it. Instead of $5-6 million, he got $8. That seems like a pretty common markup for guys in the NBA, 25% over what they actually are worth. I'd say that applies to Boozer too.

 

Taj, IMO, is a $7-$8 million, 4 year player. Which means...someone's going to offer him >4/$40. If you throw in a poison pill structure like the Bulls had to deal with for Asik, the Bulls aren't going to offer him that kind of money now, and they're going to have the exact same decision next year...paying crazy money for Gibson and still paying Boozer while avoiding the tax, or letting Gibson walk.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Boozer being amnestied still will mean that the Bulls will need to pay Boozer $30 million...

 

but more importantly than that, Taj is going to be offered stupid money. Fair money for Asik, IMO, was close to the MLE, maybe slightly above it. Instead of $5-6 million, he got $8. That seems like a pretty common markup for guys in the NBA, 25% over what they actually are worth. I'd say that applies to Boozer too.

 

Taj, IMO, is a $7-$8 million, 4 year player. Which means...someone's going to offer him >4/$40. If you throw in a poison pill structure like the Bulls had to deal with for Asik, the Bulls aren't going to offer him that kind of money now, and they're going to have the exact same decision next year...paying crazy money for Gibson and still paying Boozer while avoiding the tax, or letting Gibson walk.

 

They just have to pay the difference from his new contract right? Boozers still a good player, so he'll probably get a decent amount of that money from another team.

[Balta1701]

They just have to pay the difference from his new contract right? Boozers still a good player, so he'll probably get a decent amount of that money from another team.

Teams are only going to offer up a couple million to claim him, if at all. That's just how it goes. Either way, the Chairman will still be on the hook for $20 million+ for a player not on his roster. They won't like that.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Teams are only going to offer up a couple million to claim him, if at all. That's just how it goes. Either way, the Chairman will still be on the hook for $20 million+ for a player not on his roster. They won't like that.

 

I mean Brand got 2 mill and Boozers the better player, he should get at least 5mill. That extra 25 doesnt count towards any kind of tax right?

 

There's supposed "a plan" for 2014 and I cant imagine that doesn't include the amnesty of Boozer..

[Balta1701]

I mean Brand got 2 mill and Boozers the better player, he should get at least 5mill. That extra 25 doesnt count towards any kind of tax right?

 

There's supposed "a plan" for 2014 and I cant imagine that doesn't include the amnesty of Boozer..

No, that $25 million would not count towards a tax payment, but the Bulls would still have to pay that $25 million, and they'd still be no where close to being under the Cap.

[Balta1701]

OKC extends Ibaka.

Presti didn't provide details of the contract, citing team policy, but a league source confirmed to ESPN The Magazine's Chris Broussard that the deal is for four additional years and $48 million.

[ZoomSlowik]

Before I add any comments, when did I become the unofficial cap guy? Just curious...

[ZoomSlowik]

Well, Ibake isn't going anywhere. Just signed a 4-year extension. So that leaves Harden. I read multiple articles a couple weeks ago saying he's "pretty sure" he'll resign with the Thunder. I have no idea how they'll pull this off (this is where I wait for zoom to chime in).

 

Basically when retaining your own guys, the only question is how much luxury tax money you want to pay. I have no idea what OKC's approach to this is, though the assumption would be since they're not a major market they'd want to try to avoid spending significantly over it.

 

Since these deals are usually backloaded, they might have some serious struggles with that. Even assuming $12 mil each year for both Ibaka and Harden, they're between $55 and 60 mil for their big 4 starting in 2013/2014 (Harden and Ibaka have one more rookie deal year left) and 2015/2016 (last year of Durant's deal). That doesn't leave a ton of wiggle room under the $70 mil-ish luxury tax, especially since Perkins still has 3 years left (including this year). They may have to amnesty Perkins after this season.

 

One thing in their favor is that they weren't a luxury tax team last year and won't be this year either, so they won't hit the super-ridiculous rates in the repeat offender range like the Lakers and Heat will.

 

[ZoomSlowik]

Why not? Chances are Boozers gonna be amnestied next year so he'll have a starting gig here more than likely. Unless of course the plans to get Kevin Love (Hes made it known hes not happy in MN, and he wants to play with Rose) in a trade next year. Even then he'd be a good piece to move in such a deal, Taj, Deng and picks for Love wouldnt be a bad deal for both teams.

 

Just a pipe dream of course but if we can pull that off and get Harden next year I'd probably s*** myself and film it for everyone to see.

 

Zoom is there anyway Rose-Harden-Butler-Love-Noah would work money wise??

 

Nope. Even with a generous cap $60 million cap, you've only got $18 million left in space after subtracting only Rose, Love and Noah. All the rookie/minimum guys probably eats up $10 mil of that if not more.

 

This also assumes that they'd actually be able to get Love of course. By the way, Deng actually makes more money than Kevin Love the next two years. That means you have to get a bit more creative to match salaries and come up with a decent offer.

Edited August 19, 2012 by ZoomSlowik

[Felix]

"Hes made it known hes not happy in MN"

 

I like how no one actually reads the things that have been said. Brilliant analysis as always, NBA thread.

[ZoomSlowik]

"Hes made it known hes not happy in MN"

 

I like how no one actually reads the things that have been said. Brilliant analysis as always, NBA thread.

 

A Felix sighting!

 

People are definitely jumping the gun a bit on Love. There's a difference between saying you want to win and the Dwight-level drama.

[Felix]

A Felix sighting!

 

People are definitely jumping the gun a bit on Love. There's a difference between saying you want to win and the Dwight-level drama.

You can always count on me to come in here and call stupid people stupid every now and again.

 

Love has:

a) signed a 4-year extension with the Wolves LAST YEAR

b) said he wants to win now

c) said he wasn't happy with how the last few seasons have gone

d) said he's happy with the moves the team has made in the offseason

 

The first year of his extension hasn't even begun yet, and people are already talking about how he's desperate to get out of Minnesota. I get that you guys are bored and need to try and create some new ideas, but try to make some that have some basis in fact. That generally helps.

 

(Naturally Zoom, I'm not talking toward you with any of this. As always, you aren't drunk on Bulls flavored kool-aid and actually have an understanding of the situation.)

[Jordan4life_2007]

Basically when retaining your own guys, the only question is how much luxury tax money you want to pay. I have no idea what OKC's approach to this is, though the assumption would be since they're not a major market they'd want to try to avoid spending significantly over it.

 

Since these deals are usually backloaded, they might have some serious struggles with that. Even assuming $12 mil each year for both Ibaka and Harden, they're between $55 and 60 mil for their big 4 starting in 2013/2014 (Harden and Ibaka have one more rookie deal year left) and 2015/2016 (last year of Durant's deal). That doesn't leave a ton of wiggle room under the $70 mil-ish luxury tax, especially since Perkins still has 3 years left (including this year). They may have to amnesty Perkins after this season.

 

One thing in their favor is that they weren't a luxury tax team last year and won't be this year either, so they won't hit the super-ridiculous rates in the repeat offender range like the Lakers and Heat will.

 

Thanks, zoom. This is why I waited for you. I truly feel retarded (sorry, Kyyle. I know you hate that word) when it comes to the money side of the nba. I wait for zoom in nba and Kalapse in baseball.

[2nd_city_saint787]

wow, welcome back felix...not something I wanted to see as an angry drunk ATM. But I digress.

 

As I said, its a pipe dream....and that pipe dream is simply based off throwing together 3 thoughts. (Thoughts are the only thing your gonna have, its the offseason.)

 

1. There's a supposed plan for 2014. Its fun to speculate what that could be. (Que the carrot talks from whoever the disgruntled bulls fan is on the board)

2. Kevin Love has said that he wants to plan with Rose (and Westbrook) at some point in his career. (again its the offseason, its fun to speculate that that could happen next year, I'm not saying its gonna happen hence the "pipe dream")

3. Love's tired of losing and the addition of Chase Budinger and Andre Kirlenko is not gonna help them win any time soon.

 

I'm gonna leave it at that.

[Felix]

3. Love's tired of losing and the addition of Chase Budinger and Andre Kirlenko is not gonna help them win any time soon.

Whether you think they're good or not, the question here that is being brought up is Love's happiness with the team and their moves. At the start of the offseason, Love made it pretty clear he wanted the team to start focusing on winning now and he wasn't shy about those types of comments. With the moves the team made in the offseason, everything from the Love camp is that he's pretty happy with the direction and he's excited for the season to start. Case in point:

"I've met AK before, and now it's on a more personal level," Love said. "I just got to see him after they beat Spain. I'm looking forward to being teammates with him and Shved, and from here on out the Timberwolves are going to be a much better team.''

 

Wolves executive David Kahn recently called Love "assistant general manager'' because of Love's complaints about the Wolves' struggles.

 

"Hey, he said he wanted my input on some of the decisions, and we're supposed to be in it as a family,'' Love said. "So if he wants to call me 'assistant GM,' that's fine. But I think he was just having fun with the comment. We like to have fun with each other like that.

 

"In the last month, we've done a great job. AK is going to bring us a lot of size, a lot of length, always seems to be playing top-notch defense, top-tier in the NBA. Shved, from what I've seen, is big and athletic and can guard multiple positions and really distribute the ball. It's going to be really infectious with him and Ricky in there."

http://www.startribune.com/printarticle/?id=165028526

 

I'd also disagree with your assessment that Kirilenko isn't going to help them win any time soon, but whatever. I don't think there's anything that indicates that he won't help the team, since he was still pretty productive player in 2010-11. The biggest red flag is obviously his health and his dropping block rate, but he'll certainly improve the team and help them win when he's on the floor, if only because he's replacing players from last year that were that bad.

 

You aren't the only one that has brought up Love going to the Bulls on here. Until his contract actually starts up though, it's absurd to bring it up. Not quite as bad as Yankees fans always assuming they're going to get Felix Hernandez, but still pretty damn annoying.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Felix

[ZoomSlowik]

My only question with AK47 is how that affects the development of Derrick Williams. They seemed be shopping him pretty hard from the rumors I was reading, which is kind of crazy to me. You just took the guy #2! Give the kid a chance!

 

They kind of did the same thing with Beasley, though at least he got a true shot at SF. The problem is IMO both of those guys are best as small-ball 4's and that's Love's position too. Still, they're not exactly maximizing the talents of these guys.

[Quin]

A Felix sighting!

 

[ZoomSlowik]

ESPN projects the East

 

They basically have the Bulls in a dead-heat with Brooklyn, Philly and New York for the 4th seed. I find that to be a little optimistic.

[Quin]

ESPN projects the East

 

They basically have the Bulls in a dead-heat with Brooklyn, Philly and New York for the 4th seed. I find that to be a little optimistic.

 

I find that to be about right.

 

Then again, I see Rose making a return earlier than expected.

[bmags]

ESPN projects the East

 

They basically have the Bulls in a dead-heat with Brooklyn, Philly and New York for the 4th seed. I find that to be a little optimistic.

 

I think philly is a lock for 4th best, but the bulls to play along with knicks and brooklyn? Yeah I hope we play so poorly we are behind them but those win totals seem pretty accurate, if not 2 or 3 generous.

[ZoomSlowik]

I find that to be about right.

 

Then again, I see Rose making a return earlier than expected.

 

I just can't assume that he's going to be relatively healthy right away much less when he comes back. WAY too many variables involved.

[ZoomSlowik]

I think philly is a lock for 4th best, but the bulls to play along with knicks and brooklyn? Yeah I hope we play so poorly we are behind them but those win totals seem pretty accurate, if not 2 or 3 generous.

 

It's more about the Bulls than the other two (though I do think the Knicks can be better, even if they are kind of a mess), I just don't think they have any margin for error if they're going to win 46.

[bmags]

It's more about the Bulls than the other two (though I do think the Knicks can be better, even if they are kind of a mess), I just don't think they have any margin for error if they're going to win 46.

 

I think that's just a result of preseason rankings. Lots of inflation goes on there. I don't see why this year would be any different than the past, where the east has the 8th seed below .500 and a few teams hovering just above it.

[southsider2k5]

ESPN projects the East

 

They basically have the Bulls in a dead-heat with Brooklyn, Philly and New York for the 4th seed. I find that to be a little optimistic.

 

That is crazy. The bulls are way to injury prone, star lacking, and not deep to be 4th this season.