Why Is Dan Johnson Still at Charlotte?

[caulfield12]

Which screams to me he'd rather be somewhere he is happy, versus somewhere that pays him the most money. I am guessing if he won't extend up there, he doesn't like it there.

 

 

He probably does fit in more on the West Coast than anywhere...Dodgers, perhaps.

 

Angels can't possibly have any more crazy money to throw around again so soon after Wilson and Pujols.

 

SF, if they had the money, but they still need to improve their offense and figure out what's wrong with Lincecum.

 

Seattle, if they decide to build around Felix and another stud pitcher and actually start spending after the Figgins/Sexson/Beltre disappointments.

 

Maybe Arizona.

 

Teams like the Orioles or Blue Jays that fancy themselves as getting closer and need an anchor for their rotation might wade into the water.

 

Phillies, to replace Hamels, but still so many payroll/rebuilding issues with that team...if they think they can contend by just flip-flopping those two.

 

 

[Andy the Clown]

Dan Johnson should be on this roster based on his performance so far at Charlotte. No need for Hudson.

 

Indeed.

[Kyyle23]

So why would anyone's speculation be better than someone who is paid to do it for a living and has sources throughout the game?

 

It's an educated guess, that's all.

 

I lived in Kansas City and followed Greinke from the very beginning, was there when he had his breakdown/social anxiety diagnosis, when he famously remarked about walking away from the game because he'd prefer to be out mowing lawns in So Cal with his headphones on. Does that mean I know more than someone who lives in Chicago or have some unique insight?

 

Just don't see him agreeing on an extension. Garcia was a rare exception.

 

More importantly, with the Danks situation, and even Dunn struggling again...those huge long-term contracts for pitchers just don't look so attractive. Too many teams have been burned by them. How long until the Marlins are dumping Buehrle for 50-75 cents on the dollar?

 

You can make the argument we're finally seeing a "fair" ROI on the Peavy deal, but it hasn't been until Year 4.

 

And we still won't have anything to show for it when he's gone.

 

This and everything else you are saying is a far cry from a zero chance.

 

 

And how can you even begin to predict that we will have nothing to show for it when he is gone?

[fathom]

I said this the other day, but if the Brewers trade Greinke, it seems very unlikely they'd want the main prize coming back for him being a corner hitting outfielder.

[LittleHurt05]

I said this the other day, but if the Brewers trade Greinke, it seems very unlikely they'd want the main prize coming back for him being a corner hitting outfielder.

 

LOL. They pretty much have both corners filled with HR hitting guys. (Don't feel like looking Hart's contract status up)

[Marty34]

I said this the other day, but if the Brewers trade Greinke, it seems very unlikely they'd want the main prize coming back for him being a corner hitting outfielder.

 

It's difficult to figure the trade market for Greinke given his anxiety disorder and the big clubs probably staying away from him for that reason. If they don't want Viciedo, Quintana and Molina? I think the Sox could put together a combination that would interest Milwaukee.

[Chicago White Sox]

It's difficult to figure the trade market for Greinke given his anxiety disorder and the big clubs probably staying away from him for that reason. If they don't want Viciedo, Quintana and Molina? I think the Sox could put together a combination that would interest Milwaukee.

I hope you aren't suggesting trading all three of those guys.

[Marty34]

I hope you aren't suggesting trading all three of those guys.

 

No.

 

[fathom]

It's difficult to figure the trade market for Greinke given his anxiety disorder and the big clubs probably staying away from him for that reason. If they don't want Viciedo, Quintana and Molina? I think the Sox could put together a combination that would interest Milwaukee.

 

Rangers are in much better position to get him than the Sox are. Molina and his elbow issues going to make it hard to trade him, but I highly doubt he has significant value right now with how his season is going.

Edited June 27, 2012 by fathom

[JoshPR]

Johnson is a AAAA player

[soxmaniac!]

So why would anyone's speculation be better than someone who is paid to do it for a living and has sources throughout the game?

 

It's an educated guess, that's all.

 

I lived in Kansas City and followed Greinke from the very beginning, was there when he had his breakdown/social anxiety diagnosis, when he famously remarked about walking away from the game because he'd prefer to be out mowing lawns in So Cal with his headphones on. Does that mean I know more than someone who lives in Chicago or have some unique insight?

 

Just don't see him agreeing on an extension. Garcia was a rare exception.

 

More importantly, with the Danks situation, and even Dunn struggling again...those huge long-term contracts for pitchers just don't look so attractive. Too many teams have been burned by them. How long until the Marlins are dumping Buehrle for 50-75 cents on the dollar?

 

You can make the argument we're finally seeing a "fair" ROI on the Peavy deal, but it hasn't been until Year 4.

 

And we still won't have anything to show for it when he's gone.

Gotta say, I can see Greinke looking like a very stylish and handsome man with a nice pair of headphones on

[Lillian]

I'd be fine with changing Johnson and Hudson out. I'd like the power bat off of the bench, and plugged into very specific opportunities where he has the best chances to succeed.

 

Playing every day? God no.

 

Just to clarify; I wasn't suggesting that Johnson be an every day player. That is why I stressed his numbers vs. RHP. He would be an offensive upgrade in LF, versus righties. I wouldn't mind seeing both Connor Jackson and Dan Johnson on the team. A platoon of those two guys in LF would likely provide pretty good offense. They each could provide respectivley, a right handed and left handed bat off the bench, on days that they don't start. It must be noted that both of them draw a lot of walks, which is something that translates pretty well to the Big Leagues. The Sox could sure use more OBP hitters.

I would release Hudson, and let Escobar fill the infield reserve role.

 

If they send Viciedo down, that would make room for both of them. He should be at AAA, playing everyday.

Please understand that I really like Viciedo, and think that he will develop into a middle of the order slugger, but he is not ready yet. His 4 doubles and 9 walks tell you that he is still learning. This team can't afford to have him learning at the Major League level. The Sox should be trying to make a run for it this year, and they don't have the luxury of playing such a young and inexperienced player at an offensive position like LF.

[Jake]

Just to clarify; I wasn't suggesting that Johnson be an every day player. That is why I stressed his numbers vs. RHP. He would be an offensive upgrade in LF, versus righties. I wouldn't mind seeing both Connor Jackson and Dan Johnson on the team. A platoon of those two guys in LF would likely provide pretty good offense. They each could provide respectivley, a right handed and left handed bat off the bench, on days that they don't start. It must be noted that both of them draw a lot of walks, which is something that translates pretty well to the Big Leagues. The Sox could sure use more OBP hitters.

I would release Hudson, and let Escobar fill the infield reserve role.

 

If they send Viciedo down, that would make room for both of them. He should be at AAA, playing everyday.

Please understand that I really like Viciedo, and think that he will develop into a middle of the order slugger, but he is not ready yet. His 4 doubles and 9 walks tell you that he is still learning. This team can't afford to have him learning at the Major League level. The Sox should be trying to make a run for it this year, and they don't have the luxury of playing such a young and inexperienced player at an offensive position like LF.

 

MLB pitchers aren't afraid of Dan Johnson because they've been getting him out >80% of the time for quite a while now

 

They are afraid of Dayan because he is a manchild sent from the hot fiery doldrums of hell (oh, he also hits major league home runs)

[hogan873]

MLB pitchers aren't afraid of Dan Johnson because they've been getting him out >80% of the time for quite a while now

 

They are afraid of Dayan because he is a manchild sent from the hot fiery doldrums of hell (oh, he also hits major league home runs)

Much like Quintana, the scouting report for Dayan is mythical and mysterious. It has been rumored that he can stare at opposing pitchers and make them wet their pants and begin sobbing like small children. In addition, he has been known to hit a baseball so hard that it changes from a solid to gas and back to a solid, mystifying scientists around the world.

[Lillian]

Much like Quintana, the scouting report for Dayan is mythical and mysterious. It has been rumored that he can stare at opposing pitchers and make them wet their pants and begin sobbing like small children. In addition, he has been known to hit a baseball so hard that it changes from a solid to gas and back to a solid, mystifying scientists around the world.

 

Shouldn't these posts be in teal? I don't understand where all of this hyperbole on Viciedo comes from. Maybe in a couple of years, but seriously, you don't really think that his 17 extra base hits and sub .300 OBP are scaring opposing pitchers!! They have already found his weaknesses, are are exploiting them effectively.

Until he learns to lay off bad pitches, and take walks, he will not be a good Major League hitter.

[Kyyle23]

Shouldn't these posts be in teal? I don't understand where all of this hyperbole on Viciedo comes from. Maybe in a couple of years, but seriously, you don't really think that his 17 extra base hits and sub .300 OBP are scaring opposing pitchers!! They have already found his weaknesses, are are exploiting them effectively.

Until he learns to lay off bad pitches, and take walks, he will not be a good Major League hitter.

 

Yeah, well, until Dan Johnson learns to not hit under .200, and to not suck at the major league level, he will stay at AAA.

[hogan873]

Shouldn't these posts be in teal? I don't understand where all of this hyperbole on Viciedo comes from. Maybe in a couple of years, but seriously, you don't really think that his 17 extra base hits and sub .300 OBP are scaring opposing pitchers!! They have already found his weaknesses, are are exploiting them effectively.

Until he learns to lay off bad pitches, and take walks, he will not be a good Major League hitter.

The fact that the post says opposing pitchers cry and pee their pants, and that he has the ability to change the physical matter of a baseball wasn't enough evidence that the post was in jest?

[southsider2k5]

The fact that the post says opposing pitchers cry and pee their pants, and that he has the ability to change the physical matter of a baseball wasn't enough evidence that the post was in jest?

 

Or so the German's would have you believe...

[Lillian]

Here are some sobering facts that should put the Viciedo question in proper perspective:

 

Last year, in 186 at bats, Brent Lillibridge had 5 doubles, 1 triple, 13 homers and 29 RBI's, while hitting .258 with a .340 OBP.

This year, in 233 at bats, Dayan Viciedo, has 4 doubles, 0 triples, 12 homers and 32 RBI's, while hitting .253 with a .287 OBP.

 

And this is a guy whom everyone seems to feel was "nothing" to give up for Youkilis, and is of little value, except as a utility player. He wasn't even regarded highly enough to be given a chance to play when Morel went down. He was passed in favor of Hudson and Escobar.

 

The point is that Lillibridge had a better season than "Tank" is having so far.

It seems apparent that many of you are enamored with Viciedo's potential, not his actual, current ability.

Are the Sox playing for this year, or the future? That is the question.

 

Perhaps neither Jackson, nor Johnson can provide some offensive help in LF, but this team should be trying to upgrade production at that position. One or both of those guys should be given a chance, unless someone has a better idea.

Edited June 27, 2012 by Lillian

[hogan873]

Here are some sobering facts that should put the Viciedo question in proper perspective:

 

Last year, in 186 at bats, Brent Lillibridge had 5 doubles, 1 triple, 13 homers and 29 RBI's, while hitting .258 with a .340 OBP.

This year, in 233 at bats, Dayan Viciedo, has 4 doubles, 0 triples, 12 homers and 32 RBI's, while hitting .253 with a .287 ObP.

 

And this is a guy whom everyone seems to feel was "nothing" to give up for Youkilis, and is of little value, except as a utility player. He wasn't even regarded highly enough to be given a chance to play when Morel went down. He was passed in favor of Hudson and Escobar.

 

The point is that Lillibridge had a better season than "Tank" is having so far.

It seems apparent that many of you are enamored with Viciedo's potential, not his actual, current ability.

Are the Sox playing for this year, or the future? That is the question.

Where to start, where to start. First of all, just about everyone in baseball can look at Lillibridge's history and say that 2011 was an outlier. He will most likely never put up numbers like that again. Towards the end of last season before Lillibridge got hurt (as he got more playing time) he started to regress. He is not an everyday guy...at least not for the Sox. He is a utility player, and he did a fine job for us last year.

 

And yes, many of us (and other people who make decisions about the White Sox) are enamored with Viciedo's potential. He has huge potential, and yes there are things he needs to work on, like being more patient. Besides, his current ability is fine for right now, especially considering who could take his place out there.

 

Finally, the Sox are playing for now AND the future. Viciedo is a valued part of both of those plans. Dan Johnson is not and will not be. It's that simple.

[southsider2k5]

Here are some sobering facts that should put the Viciedo question in proper perspective:

 

Last year, in 186 at bats, Brent Lillibridge had 5 doubles, 1 triple, 13 homers and 29 RBI's, while hitting .258 with a .340 OBP.

This year, in 233 at bats, Dayan Viciedo, has 4 doubles, 0 triples, 12 homers and 32 RBI's, while hitting .253 with a .287 ObP.

 

And this is a guy whom everyone seems to feel was "nothing" to give up for Youkilis, and is of little value, except as a utility player. He wasn't even regarded highly enough to be given a chance to play when Morel went down. He was passed in favor of Hudson and Escobar.

 

The point is that Lillibridge had a better season than "Tank" is having so far.

It seems apparent that many of you are enamored with Viciedo's potential, not his actual, current ability.

Are the Sox playing for this year, or the future? That is the question.

 

Completely and utterly ridiculous comparison. Lillibridge was used a platoon and plug in player against ideal match ups. Viciedo is playing every single day, against any and all pitchers.

 

It also leaves out that Lillibridge was hitting .175 this year, with no homers and exactly one extra base hit. So I am not quite sure how you just honestly did a comparison using the descriptors "actual, current ability", yet compared two different seasons.

 

Getting past the intellectual dishonest of the post... yes potential is a big part of that. Lillibridge's season screamed fluke and regression to the mean, and that is exactly what happened this year. The only season he had close to that in the minors was in 2006 in A ball. The Lillibridge we saw last year was past his ceiling.

 

For Viciedo, this is his floor. Potential is a big part of this, as the guy has been projected as up to a 40 homer hitter. He has a long swing, which is going to mean for some growing pains, but he is also 23 years old, while Lilli will be 30 next season.

[Balta1701]

Here are some sobering facts that should put the Viciedo question in proper perspective:

 

Last year, in 186 at bats, Brent Lillibridge had 5 doubles, 1 triple, 13 homers and 29 RBI's, while hitting .258 with a .340 OBP.

This year, in 233 at bats, Dayan Viciedo, has 4 doubles, 0 triples, 12 homers and 32 RBI's, while hitting .253 with a .287 OBP.

 

And this is a guy whom everyone seems to feel was "nothing" to give up for Youkilis, and is of little value, except as a utility player. He wasn't even regarded highly enough to be given a chance to play when Morel went down. He was passed in favor of Hudson and Escobar.

 

The point is that Lillibridge had a better season than "Tank" is having so far.

It seems apparent that many of you are enamored with Viciedo's potential, not his actual, current ability.

Are the Sox playing for this year, or the future? That is the question.

 

Perhaps neither Jackson, nor Johnson can provide some offensive help in LF, but this team should be trying to upgrade production at that position. One or both of those guys should be given a chance, unless someone has a better idea.

So, when Brent Lillibridge was incredibly hot and useful and winning a ton of games for the Sox, he was better than Viciedo currently is, but not by an incredible amount.

 

And I'm not supposed to take from this that...Viciedo has been fairly effective and helped the Sox win games?

[Kyyle23]

You know, for someone who is so in love with Johnsons AAA numbers, you sure seem to overlook Viciedo's minor league numbers. The kid was a beast at every level. He took some time to adjust, and once he did he exploded.

[caulfield12]

If you put Brent Lillibridge's numbers together for his entire MLB career OUTSIDE OF 2011, what would they give you?

 

Probably something that looks a lot like Eduardo Escobar?

 

You could make the same arguments that Lillibridge should be starting as the DH over Adam Dunn against LHP, or for DeAza, but obviously Ventura never agreed with doing either.

 

Should we have benched Dunn now for Dan Johnson or Conor Jackson as well? You have to look at track records, and Dayan has had results in both the minors and majors and he's only 23.

 

If we're building towards the future, what good would a third season in AAA do with developing Viciedo? We have to do what he can do NOW, this season...we can compete for the division and still do development at the same time, it's exactly what is happening with Reed, Jones, Santiago and a number of other players on the team, Quintana in particular.

 

Nobody's suggesting dropping Quintana from the rotation, just like a month ago nobody would have dreamed of benching Dayan. He's streaky. He, Dunn and Konerko will go on another hot streak again soon.

 

I was wrong for doubting Floyd and believing he'd completely lost it, there's ZERO reason to believe Dayan won't end up with close to 25-30 homers and 70-85 RBI's. That's great results for a 23 year old in his first major league season...and something to build upon.

 

Even if Johnson and Jackson put up Dayan's numbers up to this point of the season, that's doing ZERO for the 2013 Chicago White Sox, and more than likely hurting our chances of competing next year by standing in the way of Viciedo's development.

 

 

[Lillian]

I agree with everyone about Viciedo's potential. I stated it in my original post, and reiterated it in a a subsequent post. My point is very simple.

As good as he will likely become, he is not that good yet. That is all that I'm arguing. He is simply not ready, at 23, to be a starting left fielder, on a contending team that is OBP challeged, like the Sox.