oldsox Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Ohman was lucky he only gave up three runs. I was surprised he came out for the 9th Robin means business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 QUOTE (oldsox @ Jun 27, 2012 -> 06:48 PM) Robin means business. Bring it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Guess I'm the only one kind of bummed by this. With apparent attitude issues aside (as briefly mentioned above), Ohman is one of the few guys on the roster I can say that Ventura has perfectly mishandled. Perhaps part of it is the fact that Ventura does not like Ohman and that Ohman is not well liked in the clubhouse, so then it's a totem pole game, but Ohman is and has been great against lefties this year (.186/.250/.281/.513) and for the duration of his career (.210/.294/.308/.571). He can't get righties out. This has been the book on him for a while. Yet Ventura continued to use him in an inning eating and long relief role, which will simply lead opposing managers to just take all of their mediocre lefties out of the lineup in place of inferior righties who can and will hit Ohman to death. At this point, the Sox need a guy who can eat innings, regardless of handedness. Leesman seems like a perfectly legitimate candidate at this point in time. I will name Santos Rodriguez as a wildcard, for shiz and gigz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 28, 2012 -> 02:44 AM) Guess I'm the only one kind of bummed by this. With apparent attitude issues aside (as briefly mentioned above), Ohman is one of the few guys on the roster I can say that Ventura has perfectly mishandled. Perhaps part of it is the fact that Ventura does not like Ohman and that Ohman is not well liked in the clubhouse, so then it's a totem pole game, but Ohman is and has been great against lefties this year (.186/.250/.281/.513) and for the duration of his career (.210/.294/.308/.571). He can't get righties out. This has been the book on him for a while. Yet Ventura continued to use him in an inning eating and long relief role, which will simply lead opposing managers to just take all of their mediocre lefties out of the lineup in place of inferior righties who can and will hit Ohman to death. At this point, the Sox need a guy who can eat innings, regardless of handedness. Leesman seems like a perfectly legitimate candidate at this point in time. I will name Santos Rodriguez as a wildcard, for shiz and gigz Many people have stated Ohman was mishandled. The facts indicate he faced a higher percentage of LH hitters this year than any other in his career. If Ventura mishandled him, so did every other manager. If he can't get RH hitters out at all, he is now where he belongs, off any major league roster, although I feel he won't have trouble hooking up with someone. Edited June 28, 2012 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 27, 2012 -> 06:47 PM) Ohman's had the reputation of really being an asshole when he was with the Cubs. He's a POS. In fact, I remember a quote from a former teammate on the Cubs who said "He will not be missed" when he left. Edited June 28, 2012 by SoxAce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knackattack Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jun 27, 2012 -> 06:12 PM) I found myself rooting for him to give up more walks and runs in the 9th today, hoping it would force a decision like this. It's funny, when Ohman came out I figured Robin just kept using him so Kenny would know to get him the hell out rofl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyDo Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 28, 2012 -> 03:44 AM) Guess I'm the only one kind of bummed by this. With apparent attitude issues aside (as briefly mentioned above), Ohman is one of the few guys on the roster I can say that Ventura has perfectly mishandled. Perhaps part of it is the fact that Ventura does not like Ohman and that Ohman is not well liked in the clubhouse, so then it's a totem pole game, but Ohman is and has been great against lefties this year (.186/.250/.281/.513) and for the duration of his career (.210/.294/.308/.571). He can't get righties out. This has been the book on him for a while. Yet Ventura continued to use him in an inning eating and long relief role, which will simply lead opposing managers to just take all of their mediocre lefties out of the lineup in place of inferior righties who can and will hit Ohman to death. At this point, the Sox need a guy who can eat innings, regardless of handedness. Leesman seems like a perfectly legitimate candidate at this point in time. I will name Santos Rodriguez as a wildcard, for shiz and gigz I suppose the rebuttal is that if your manager wants his lefties to be somewhat versatile and is going to use his pen the way he has been, Will Ohman should definitely be gone. It would be nice if Ventura would adapt to his roster, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 QUOTE (Knackattack @ Jun 28, 2012 -> 06:58 AM) It's funny, when Ohman came out I figured Robin just kept using him so Kenny would know to get him the hell out rofl. Which is how it should work. A manager and GM should be on the same page. Not fighting for headlines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 28, 2012 -> 07:08 AM) Which is how it should work. A manager and GM should be on the same page. Not fighting for headlines. Just to play devils advocate, and I'm not a Guillen fan, especially with the stuff that he pulled in his last few years here, but is this not what K.W. did in Ozzies first season or 2 here? Was not most of the moves between 2004 - 2005 along the lines of transforming from a power laden, slow team to the more versatile, faster, pitching / defense type team which we won a World Series with. That was what Ozzie wanted, albeit he didn't get the speedy, slap hitting leadoff hitter (Pierre) that he wanted until later. We all know how this turned out in later years and I hope that K.W. & R.V. are truly on the same page here. IF, and I mean (wish) IF we win another World Series this year or next, let's hope that another ego battle does not ensue as to who gets most of the credit for it, and we're back infighting with different agendas again. Silly me, I know that K.W.'s ego would never allow that to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 QUOTE (balfanman @ Jun 28, 2012 -> 09:28 AM) Just to play devils advocate, and I'm not a Guillen fan, especially with the stuff that he pulled in his last few years here, but is this not what K.W. did in Ozzies first season or 2 here? Was not most of the moves between 2004 - 2005 along the lines of transforming from a power laden, slow team to the more versatile, faster, pitching / defense type team which we won a World Series with. That was what Ozzie wanted, albeit he didn't get the speedy, slap hitting leadoff hitter (Pierre) that he wanted until later. We all know how this turned out in later years and I hope that K.W. & R.V. are truly on the same page here. IF, and I mean (wish) IF we win another World Series this year or next, let's hope that another ego battle does not ensue as to who gets most of the credit for it, and we're back infighting with different agendas again. Silly me, I know that K.W.'s ego would never allow that to happen. The counterpoint of course is that the 2005 team was a power laden team that scored a ton of runs using the HR. Hit 200 HR on the regular season, was one of the top power teams in the league. And then the 2006 team which won 90 games was even more powerful thanks to that beast in the DH slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 QUOTE (balfanman @ Jun 28, 2012 -> 08:28 AM) Just to play devils advocate, and I'm not a Guillen fan, especially with the stuff that he pulled in his last few years here, but is this not what K.W. did in Ozzies first season or 2 here? Was not most of the moves between 2004 - 2005 along the lines of transforming from a power laden, slow team to the more versatile, faster, pitching / defense type team which we won a World Series with. That was what Ozzie wanted, albeit he didn't get the speedy, slap hitting leadoff hitter (Pierre) that he wanted until later. We all know how this turned out in later years and I hope that K.W. & R.V. are truly on the same page here. IF, and I mean (wish) IF we win another World Series this year or next, let's hope that another ego battle does not ensue as to who gets most of the credit for it, and we're back infighting with different agendas again. Silly me, I know that K.W.'s ego would never allow that to happen. One of the greatest urban myths in Sox history. Other than Podsednik, that was still a power laden team. They hit 200 homeruns, and the majority of the playoff games were by timely home run hitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 28, 2012 -> 07:36 AM) The counterpoint of course is that the 2005 team was a power laden team that scored a ton of runs using the HR. Hit 200 HR on the regular season, was one of the top power teams in the league. And then the 2006 team which won 90 games was even more powerful thanks to that beast in the DH slot. Shhhhhhh....you wern't supposed to notice that, it destroys a perfectly good argument. Ozzieball reigned supreme! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 The point being that K.W. & Ozzie were on the same page too, once upon a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 QUOTE (balfanman @ Jun 28, 2012 -> 08:41 AM) The point being that K.W. & Ozzie were on the same page too, once upon a time. The Kotsay/Thome decision is when that whole thing turned, and we all know what the right decision should have been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 QUOTE (balfanman @ Jun 28, 2012 -> 08:28 AM) Just to play devils advocate, and I'm not a Guillen fan, especially with the stuff that he pulled in his last few years here, but is this not what K.W. did in Ozzies first season or 2 here? Was not most of the moves between 2004 - 2005 along the lines of transforming from a power laden, slow team to the more versatile, faster, pitching / defense type team which we won a World Series with. That was what Ozzie wanted, albeit he didn't get the speedy, slap hitting leadoff hitter (Pierre) that he wanted until later. We all know how this turned out in later years and I hope that K.W. & R.V. are truly on the same page here. IF, and I mean (wish) IF we win another World Series this year or next, let's hope that another ego battle does not ensue as to who gets most of the credit for it, and we're back infighting with different agendas again. Silly me, I know that K.W.'s ego would never allow that to happen. The counter-counter point being, the more of Ozzie's players Ozzie got, the worse his teams got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balfanman Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 28, 2012 -> 07:45 AM) The counter-counter point being, the more of Ozzie's players Ozzie got, the worse his teams got. Very true, particularly later on. But how much of Podsednik, Igutchi, Pierzynski, Uribe, etc acquisitions, and the Lee, Valentin, Ordonez, etc subtractions were K.W., and how much was Ozzie wanting it to happen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 28, 2012 -> 08:38 AM) One of the greatest urban myths in Sox history. Other than Podsednik, that was still a power laden team. They hit 200 homeruns, and the majority of the playoff games were by timely home run hitting. They were a great pitching team with timely power hitting. We DID win a few games by straight small ball but the team really did most of its damage early in the season by getting ahead and shutting teams down with the starters and the unreal bullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 QUOTE (balfanman @ Jun 28, 2012 -> 08:53 AM) Very true, particularly later on. But how much of Podsednik, Igutchi, Pierzynski, Uribe, etc acquisitions, and the Lee, Valentin, Ordonez, etc subtractions were K.W., and how much was Ozzie wanting it to happen? How many of those deals were strictly based on financial restraints? The latter players cost far more money than the former. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wedge Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 28, 2012 -> 02:44 AM) Guess I'm the only one kind of bummed by this. With apparent attitude issues aside (as briefly mentioned above), Ohman is one of the few guys on the roster I can say that Ventura has perfectly mishandled. Perhaps part of it is the fact that Ventura does not like Ohman and that Ohman is not well liked in the clubhouse, so then it's a totem pole game, but Ohman is and has been great against lefties this year (.186/.250/.281/.513) and for the duration of his career (.210/.294/.308/.571). He can't get righties out. This has been the book on him for a while. Yet Ventura continued to use him in an inning eating and long relief role, which will simply lead opposing managers to just take all of their mediocre lefties out of the lineup in place of inferior righties who can and will hit Ohman to death. At this point, the Sox need a guy who can eat innings, regardless of handedness. Leesman seems like a perfectly legitimate candidate at this point in time. I will name Santos Rodriguez as a wildcard, for shiz and gigz Maybe the better question is something like "How LOOGY-ish can your LOOGY be?" To my surprise, Ohman actually had decent numbers against lefties: .186/.250.305/.555 but was horrendous against righties: .286/.375/.595/.970. Considering that most teams have a decent RH hitter on the bench in the AL, the situations you can actually bring Ohman into are extremely limited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawkjt Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 In Ohman's last appearance before yesterday vs the Brewers, Robin brought him in to face a lefty,and the other manager promptly put in a right handed pinch hitter,who got a hit. And I even think his numbers vs lefties are a bit deceptive....he struggled with control vs lefties,and gave up critical hits/walks, and got them when there was no pressure. He stunk out loud,period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 QUOTE (Wedge @ Jun 28, 2012 -> 10:18 AM) Maybe the better question is something like "How LOOGY-ish can your LOOGY be?" To my surprise, Ohman actually had decent numbers against lefties: .186/.250.305/.555 but was horrendous against righties: .286/.375/.595/.970. Considering that most teams have a decent RH hitter on the bench in the AL, the situations you can actually bring Ohman into are extremely limited. For his career, his numbers against righties were .267/.782, with .221/.659 against lefties. So it's the fact that his splits have gotten even more extreme that really got him here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max power Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) Nice. I was calling for this last week. Still hoping they add a veteren lefty at some point. But if some kid is lights out, I can change my mind. Edited June 28, 2012 by MAX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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