Balta1701 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:32 PM) Because the result is the same week after week. He's the same player he was 2 years ago, all he does is swings as hard as he f***ing can.......You're saying he's not worth all that much but expect a big return. Talk about nonsense. The real answer of course is that when teams are taking on guys like Viciedo at the deadline, they're taking them on because they're losing, and they're giving you 1 year or 2 year rentals. And giving up Viciedo for a guy who would be a free agent this year, for a team that just cut $25 million in salary, would be incredibly terrible planning. You open up a LF hole when you are finally filling some of your holes with cheap talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 02:32 PM) Because the result is the same week after week. He's the same player he was 2 years ago, all he does is swings as hard as he f***ing can.......You're saying he's not worth all that much but expect a big return. Talk about nonsense. Hah...you're saying he's going to be an incredible player but has no trade value. I'm saying he should have trade value, if most of the scouts believe what you and Balta and countless others are saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Lou Pinella was doing the game yesterday for YES. He likes Dunn but thinks he should bat 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 02:34 PM) Then wouldn't other teams feel the same way and negotiate accordingly? It's either one or the other, DA. He's either this great prospect with all these comparables, or he is a prospect who's starting to fizzle out a bit. You can't have it both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 One of those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:36 PM) It's either one or the other, DA. He's either this great prospect with all these comparables, or he is a prospect who's starting to fizzle out a bit. You can't have it both ways. His Fizzle went away a couple years ago, now he's rebuilding it because the team has finally stuck with him and given him playing time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 02:34 PM) The real answer of course is that when teams are taking on guys like Viciedo at the deadline, they're taking them on because they're losing, and they're giving you 1 year or 2 year rentals. And giving up Viciedo for a guy who would be a free agent this year, for a team that just cut $25 million in salary, would be incredibly terrible planning. You open up a LF hole when you are finally filling some of your holes with cheap talent. Not true. If he's such an incredible prospect, all teams should be dying to have him. I wanted to trade him before the season even started, when all teams had hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 03:34 PM) Hah...you're saying he's going to be an incredible player but has no trade value. I'm saying he should have trade value, if most of the scouts believe what you and Balta and countless others are saying. I'm not saying that at all. I say don't trade him. He's going to be a nice hitter, quite possibly a monster. Still learning, he's on pace right now for 30 homers. The Sox need all the offense they can get, and he's cost controlled for the foreseeable future. The correct question is what is his trade value if most scouts believe what you think? Or are you just smarter than everyone else? Edited July 1, 2012 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 03:29 PM) This is exactly what I said would happen going in to this season, except for the hot streak. Viciedo would struggle more than we'd want, but we have to stick with him, because we're not going to get anything near his value back in a trade, and what he can bring to a lineup if you really develop him is enormous. If they aren't going to get his true value back in a trade that's a pretty good indication that he won't pan out. Why waste the time when anyone can play LF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Wise playing hard against Sox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 02:37 PM) His Fizzle went away a couple years ago, now he's rebuilding it because the team has finally stuck with him and given him playing time. So it's the Org's fault now? What, are you related to him or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Unless you absolutely rape a trade partner, the point is that you don't get the type of run producer that we expect to get from Dayan. It's not that you don't get anything back for him, it's that what he is/is becoming is very difficult to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 03:35 PM) Lou Pinella was doing the game yesterday for YES. He likes Dunn but thinks he should bat 6th. Glad Lou is in the booth 6th.............WTF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:37 PM) I'm not saying that at all. I say don't trade him. He's going to be a nice hitter, quite possibly a monster. Still learning, he's on pace right now for 30 homers. The Sox need all the offense they can get, and he's cost controlled for the foreseeable future. The correct question is what is his trade value if most scouts believe what you think? Or are you just smarter than everyone else? If I were the Phillies I'd happily take him for Hamels if I didn't think I could resign him. But then, that trade doesn't make this White Sox team any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 02:37 PM) I'm not saying that at all. I say don't trade him. He's going to be a nice hitter, quite possibly a monster. Still learning, he's on pace right now for 30 homers. The Sox need all the offense they can get, and he's cost controlled for the foreseeable future. The correct question is what is his trade value if most scouts believe what you think? Or are you just smarter than everyone else? I'm sure there are some teams that see what you see. I'd trade him to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 03:40 PM) I'm sure there are some teams that see what you see. I'd trade him to them. So the proverbial non answer. Who would then play LF? What would it take getting back for you to trade Viciedo? Edited July 1, 2012 by Dick Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 02:42 PM) So the proverbial non answer. Who would then play LF? How is that a non-answer? Depends what you got back, obviously. Probably Danks. Edited July 1, 2012 by iamshack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 02:42 PM) So the proverbial non answer. Who would then play LF? Ken Griffey Jr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:39 PM) So it's the Org's fault now? What, are you related to him or something? GMAB with the personal insult. I've been noting how the Sox have treated him for 3 years. Full season at 3b Jump up a level aggressively, put him at 1b for half a season, then move him back to 3b for 2 weeks, then move him to the major league bench where Ozzie sticks him because he has to prove soemthing to Kenny. Then A full season in RF at AAa, which had really solid performance except weak defense...because he'd never played there before. Finally, aggressively again push him to the big leagues at age 23, move him to another new position, get better defense from him than I expected, and yet people want him gone because he's only putting up a mid-.700's OPS as a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Nate Jones back to looking good after a couple of bad outings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:43 PM) How is that a non-answer? Depends what you got back, obviously. Probably Danks. So you're actually going to tell me that Viciedo won't ever improve or learn the strike zone and you want him replaced by a guy who has struck out 365 times in 1271 PA's at AAA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Last chance last dance................do it again Sox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 03:43 PM) Ken Griffey Jr. He's available. They may want to move him to CF. KW thinks that's easier on the legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 02:43 PM) GMAB with the personal insult. I've been noting how the Sox have treated him for 3 years. Full season at 3b Jump up a level aggressively, put him at 1b for half a season, then move him back to 3b for 2 weeks, then move him to the major league bench where Ozzie sticks him because he has to prove soemthing to Kenny. Then A full season in RF at AAa, which had really solid performance except weak defense...because he'd never played there before. Finally, aggressively again push him to the big leagues at age 23, move him to another new position, get better defense from him than I expected, and yet people want him gone because he's only putting up a mid-.700's OPS as a rookie. It's not a personal insult. He's just your latest "defend at all costs" player now that Morel is injured. You disregard all your intelligence and logic to defend sone of these guys, for what reason, I don't know. Frankly I think it's more insulting to me that I feel obliged to respond to this horses***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 03:44 PM) So you're actually going to tell me that Viciedo won't ever improve or learn the strike zone and you want him replaced by a guy who has struck out 365 times in 1271 PA's at AAA? And isn't Danks 25 or 26? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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