Story about Dunn and his child

[Soxbadger]

Fired or criticized by your boss, employer, superior, not some random off the street who has no clue.

 

And do you think players react better to cheers or boos? I think that cheers make them play better, so I cheer. Thats the point right? I want my team to win.

[T R U]

Fired or criticized by your boss, employer, superior, not some random off the street who has no clue.

 

And do you think players react better to cheers or boos? I think that cheers make them play better, so I cheer. Thats the point right? I want my team to win.

 

Im pretty sure a LOT of them couldn't give two s***s if they get boo'd or not. Its not like the Simpsons episode where Homer heckles Daryl Strawberry and then in the next scene he has a tear in his eye.

 

 

[thxfrthmmrs]

And maybe that is true.

 

But as a fan, I want the players on my team to do well. So I can get over my need to boo my own player, to try and be positive and hope that they play better.

 

I can only speak for myself, but a lot of people are hard on themselves, and the last thing they need is a group of people who cant remotely do what they do, booing from the sidelines as if they understand.

 

 

From my perspective, fans who boo at the game didn't pay $30-40 to get in to the game to comfort the players. Fans pay big bucks to watch a good game. This isn't a Little League game where everybody is a winner and nobody gets their feelings hurt. There are expectations when you are making $15 million a year.

[justBLAZE]

No, he doesn't. It's rather pathetic that you would even think that. And no, I don't have a problem with booing.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that was ridiculous to say.

[Soxbadger]

Im pretty sure a LOT of them couldn't give two s***s if they get boo'd or not. Its not like the Simpsons episode where Homer heckles Daryl Strawberry and then in the next scene he has a tear in his eye.

 

 

Okay so how do I know which ones care?

 

Isnt it safer to just cheer for them all and that way not risk booing for the wrong guy?

 

At least argue that you believe booing is more of a motivator than cheering, but then you should always boo, so that cant be.

 

From my perspective, fans who boo at the game didn't pay $30-40 to get in to the game to comfort the players. Fans pay big bucks to watch a good game. This isn't a Little League game where everybody is a winner and nobody gets their feelings hurt. There are expectations when you are making $15 million a year.

 

I care about my team winning and losing.

 

I dont care about whether you had a good game. Im there for the Sox to win. So far you havent shown me how booing helps that cause more than cheering.

[southsider2k5]

I'll never understand the logic behind getting after players. Are you telling me that Adam Dunn didn't know he sucked last year? That your boos clued him in?

[T R U]

Okay so how do I know which ones care?

 

Isnt it safer to just cheer for them all and that way not risk booing for the wrong guy?

 

What? Who cares if they get their feelings hurt. They get to play a f***ing game as their job. They make way more money than the majority of us will ever see. If one of them cares about being boo'd, work harder. I watch sports to be entertained, most of us do. If you don't perform to the level that you're expected to, you're going to hear it. I don't see how that's a problem.

 

[T R U]

I'll never understand the logic behind getting after players. Are you telling me that Adam Dunn didn't know he sucked last year? That your boos clued him in?

 

You're right. I think a good pat on the back and a well get em next time is more than enough.

 

He deserved the boo's, whats the problem?

[Soxbadger]

What? Who cares if they get their feelings hurt. They get to play a f***ing game as their job. They make way more money than the majority of us will ever see. If one of them cares about being boo'd, work harder. I watch sports to be entertained, most of us do. If you don't perform to the level that you're expected to, you're going to hear it. I don't see how that's a problem.

 

Its a problem if you want the team to win and you have even a basic understanding of human psychology.

 

You are entitled to boo, I just think its stupid to boo your own team, unless its something horrifically egregious that involves quitting on their own team.

 

The reason I care about their feelings, is because generally people who are happy do better than those who are sad. Go figure.

[T R U]

Its a problem if you want the team to win and you have even a basic understanding of human psychology.

 

You are entitled to boo, I just think its stupid to boo your own team, unless its something horrifically egregious that involves quitting on their own team.

 

The reason I care about their feelings, is because generally people who are happy do better than those who are sad. Go figure.

 

There is zero evidence that suggests booing a player makes them play worse. Secondly, its not stupid to boo your own team. They arent immune to criticism. Booing is the only way to show this, you cant go in the dugout and say "Hey man, I didnt really feel you hustled on that last play."

[thxfrthmmrs]

I care about my team winning and losing.

 

I dont care about whether you had a good game. Im there for the Sox to win. So far you havent shown me how booing helps that cause more than cheering.

 

 

But you can't separate a team losing from the fact that players are not performing.

 

I would argue that booing helps the same as cheering for failures. It shows that fans have expectations, and it puts more pressure on the players to perform rather than giving themselves more cushion because they think the fans would stand behind them regardless. Baseball is a business, and just like a traditional business setting, there are rewards and punishments. At work, the boss would give recognition for good work and give warnings for not meeting expectation, and yet those warnings keep you in check. The players understand this, and they often blame themselves for not performing. Rarely do I hear players blaming the fans for their failures.

[southsider2k5]

You're right. I think a good pat on the back and a well get em next time is more than enough.

 

He deserved the boo's, whats the problem?

 

What is the point? What are you trying to accomplish exactly?

[Soxbadger]

0 evidence?

 

Well I put it into the googles and this is what I found:

 

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2012/03/...mpact-his-play/

 

latche admitted that the booing really affects him and said he found it “very frustrating.” “It’s tough when you’re at home and people that are supposed to have your back don’t have your back,” he said. “Instead of encouraging you to get better, they actually push you down and make you worse. In the long run, it’s not only hurting me, it’s hurting my teammates. That’s what I feel most upset about because I can’t help out and perform for my teammates, because I’m letting the crowd get into my head and making me second-guess, not let me be the player that I am,” he added. “It’s very frustrating. Hopefully, I’m just trying to fight to overcome it.”

 

And more:

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_6894...3/ai_n57525309/

 

They suggested the primary contributor to home-team advantage may be the visiting team performance being actively hurt by unsupportive audience behavior (rather than, say, that the audience behavior generated a bias in refereeing). Thirer and Rampey (1979) discovered interesting relationships between extreme negative audience behavior and team performance in basketball.

 

And onto the actual test:

 

Post-hoc LSD tests indicated that jeers resulted in worse performance compared to both cheers (p = .002) and silence (p = .001)

 

On the other hand, the unsupportive audience (jeers) did result in lower accuracy for both baseball pitchers and golfers. Under these conditions, then, cheers did not function as a reinforcer for any of the tested behaviors, but jeers functioned as a punisher for throwing strikes and accurate golf hits. These results may suggest the real value of fan behavior during a sporting event is in their antagonism of the opposing team (though the authors are not advocating encouraging this among fans). Interestingly, this also has implications for our understanding of the so-called homefield advantage.

 

If this was a stadium, theyd be booing you.

 

 

[T R U]

What is the point? What are you trying to accomplish exactly?

 

Because personally I feel the fans need a way to show the players that they aren't pleased with the effort/performance that their team is giving them.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Players who make top dollars understand the fans expectations

 

A story from the other day:

 

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/8...cial-slur-rehab

 

MANCHESTER, N.H. -- Before many of the 18 pitches he saw in his third rehab start for Double-A Portland on Thursday night, Boston Red Sox left fielder Carl Crawford was forced to tune out a heckler behind home plate.

 

The fan -- who Crawford claimed uttered "a racial slur" -- routinely made his feelings known with regard to the left fielder's $142 million contract and whether he was earning it.

 

The heckler's message: overrated, overpaid.

 

Crawford responded Thursday night in the fifth inning of Portland's 11-3 loss to the New Hampshire Fisher Cats by lacing a triple to right-center field at Northeast Delta Dental Stadium. He reached third base without drawing a throw.

 

After completing his night in the seventh inning, Crawford was asked about the fan and lingering animosity that may exist after his disappointing 2011 season, his first in Boston.

 

"Talking about that guy, he actually called me a racial slur to begin the game," said Crawford, who hit .255 with a .289 on-base percentage last season. "He was the only one I had a problem with. People in Boston don't even do that. So I don't know what that was about. It's not that bad in Boston, like that."

 

Crawford seemingly did hear some other ribbing. While walking back to his position after New Hampshire's Brad Glenn hit a fifth-inning home run to left field, Crawford appeared to stop, turn and wave his glove in a dissatisfied manner toward fans beyond the wall.

 

Crawford, however, was composed while offering his perspective to reporters in the stadium's media room. He spoke fondly of the fans in New Hampshire, many of whom cheer for the Sea Dogs despite the Fisher Cats being the Double-A affiliate of the Toronto Blue Jays.

"I can understand why people can be upset about me signing a contract and me having the kind of year I had," Crawford said. "I understand, you know? They love their team. They want you to produce when you sign a contract like that. I can't be mad at them. All I can do is get ready to play this year and try to produce."

 

Crawford, who is rehabbing a sprain of the ulnar collateral ligament in his left elbow, continued to test the arm during six-plus innings of work as Portland's leadoff hitter and left fielder on Thursday night.

More On The Red Sox

 

Gordon Edes and the rest of the ESPNBoston.com team have the Red Sox covered for you. Blog

He went 1 for 4 with the fifth-inning triple. Hitless through two at-bats, he pulled a 2-and-1 offering and turned the corner at second base before the ball was retrieved.

 

"That swing felt pretty good. I ran the bases pretty good. Yeah, that felt fine," said Crawford, who has yet to play with the Red Sox this season.

 

Crawford tested his arm in the home half of the fifth. He didn't show any ill effects throwing to the left side of the infield after cleanly fielding a 380-foot gap double.

 

"It's all right," he said of his arm. "It wasn't a big deal."

 

Crawford could remain with Portland as he continues his rehab assignment. He said he planned to communicate with Red Sox officials on Friday.

Edited July 10, 2012 by thxfrthmmrs

[Soxbadger]

But you can't separate a team losing from the fact that players are not performing.

 

I would argue that booing helps the same as cheering for failures. It shows that fans have expectations, and it puts more pressure on the players to perform rather than giving themselves more cushion because they think the fans would stand behind them regardless. Baseball is a business, and just like a traditional business setting, there are rewards and punishments. At work, the boss would give recognition for good work and give warnings for not meeting expectation, and yet those warnings keep you in check. The players understand this, and they often blame themselves for not performing. Rarely do I hear players blaming the fans for their failures.

 

But if the stats show booing hurts performance, why take the risk?

 

You keep comparing a boss to a player playing a sport. Imagine if in the middle of a presentation, your boss started booing you. How do you think that would go?

 

After the game, behind closed doors, is an appropriate time to discuss failures.

[T R U]

0 evidence?

 

Well I put it into the googles and this is what I found:

 

http://thehoopdoctors.com/online2/2012/03/...mpact-his-play/

 

 

 

And more:

 

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_6894...3/ai_n57525309/

 

 

 

And onto the actual test:

 

 

 

 

 

If this was a stadium, theyd be booing you.

 

Sorry, but I dont buy that.

[Soxbadger]

Right, most people do not understand what it is like working in front of a random crowd of people who are judging you constantly.

[T R U]

But if the stats show booing hurts performance, why take the risk?

 

You keep comparing a boss to a player playing a sport. Imagine if in the middle of a presentation, your boss started booing you. How do you think that would go?

 

After the game, behind closed doors, is an appropriate time to discuss failures.

 

I hope they let me into the locker room then so I can tell Dunn how terrible he is. Oh, youre telling me that I cant do that? Well how can I let it be known that I am not happy with the performance that I am paying to see....

[Soxbadger]

Write a letter?

 

Do you stand outside of Microsoft and boo them because your Xbox is worse than PS3?

 

Do people show up at your job and boo you if they dont like the product they bought?

 

As a fan, I want to see the Sox win, not boo Sox players.

 

Call me old fashioned.

[caulfield12]

Yet can't we be open to the idea that Rios and Dunn both are performing better this year because of the adversity and booing last year?

 

It's not like there has been tremendous attendance or fan support for MOST of this season...

 

Would be interesting to see from the POV of both those players why they've improved so much, and Rios, why he has been so inconsistent in recent years when he has so much talent and ability.

[thxfrthmmrs]

But if the stats show booing hurts performance, why take the risk?

 

You keep comparing a boss to a player playing a sport. Imagine if in the middle of a presentation, your boss started booing you. How do you think that would go?

 

After the game, behind closed doors, is an appropriate time to discuss failures.

 

 

Obviously, there are both sides to the coin. Everyone has feelings. The fans, by booing, are letting their feelings be heard. By booing, the fans could, according to you, impact the players mental make up. But if you don't have a strong mental makeup, it won't take you far in life. Some of the most successful athletes ever have strong mental makeups.

 

The fans are paying to see the game, the players getting paid, who do you think should be understanding of the others feeling. I can understand that if it's a free game, than fans should not boo, but that's not the case.

 

Just imagine if the fans cheer for everything during the game, how would the players react? I mean, I certainly remember the fans giving Adam some cushion for error, but he was HISTORICALLY bad, at what point do you boo him? If you are just plain awful at your job, you would be fired, no excuses.

[T R U]

Actually I got to Microsoft and stand outside the door and slap a high five to everyone who walks out because XBOX is undeniably better than the crappy $300 paperweight that is the PS3.

 

Write a letter? Ide have to boo myself if I did that.

 

I understand you're some kind of lawyer or lawyer in training so you think you can out argue everyone on this board, but your opinion doesn't matter any more than anyone elses here. You either boo or you don't, you'll never be able to justify that its wrong and ill never be able to justify that its right.

 

Writing a letter is not an acceptable option and is more likely to be crumpled up and thrown away than read. This isn't 1950.

 

 

[thxfrthmmrs]

Write a letter?

 

Do you stand outside of Microsoft and boo them because your Xbox is worse than PS3?

 

Do people show up at your job and boo you if they dont like the product they bought?

 

As a fan, I want to see the Sox win, not boo Sox players.

 

Call me old fashioned.

 

Most of the sports fans are tied to the city they are from. If their teams suck, that's still their team. The team represent their city. But if you don't like the products you are using, you go buy another brand. Different scenarios here.

 

I just don't understand your logic that if you don't ever boo at a game, and if everybody sucked like Dunn, how do you expect your team to win, if you only cared about the Sox winning.

 

[Soxbadger]

Obviously, there are both sides to the coin. Everyone has feelings. The fans, by booing, are letting their feelings be heard. By booing, the fans could, according to you, impact the players mental make up. But if you don't have a strong mental makeup, it won't take you far in life. Some of the most successful athletes ever have strong mental makeups.

 

The fans are paying to see the game, the players getting paid, who do you think should be understanding of the others feeling. I can understand that if it's a free game, than fans should not boo, but that's not the case.

 

Just imagine if the fans cheer for everything during the game, how would the players react? I mean, I certainly remember the fans giving Adam some cushion for error, but he was HISTORICALLY bad, at what point do you boo him? If you are just plain awful at your job, you would be fired, no excuses.

 

I just am not willing to take the risk of hurting the performance of a player on a team I root for. Its not about getting paid, its not about their feelings, its about winning and losing. If there is even a .0001% chance that my booing will negatively impact a player, I am not going to go do it.

 

You keep talking about being fired from my job. Isnt that my bosses call, not random people on the street? I am not saying that players shouldnt be held accountable, I am asking the question if there is even some evidence that booing hurts player performance, why would you boo your own players?

 

 

 

Actually I got to Microsoft and stand outside the door and slap a high five to everyone who walks out because XBOX is undeniably better than the crappy $300 paperweight that is the PS3.

 

Write a letter? Ide have to boo myself if I did that.

 

I understand you're some kind of lawyer or lawyer in training so you think you can out argue everyone on this board, but your opinion doesn't matter any more than anyone elses here. You either boo or you don't, you'll never be able to justify that its wrong and ill never be able to justify that its right.

 

Writing a letter is not an acceptable option and is more likely to be crumpled up and thrown away than read. This isn't 1950.

 

 

Im not justifying its wrong, I am asking why would you boo players if there is a risk they will play worse.

 

So far no one has answered that. It doesnt matter what I do outside of the boards, everyone is free to have an opinion here and be judged. Ive just yet to read a good argument for why you would want to hurt your own players performance.

 

Most of the sports fans are tied to the city they are from. If their teams suck, that's still their team. The team represent their city. But if you don't like the products you are using, you go buy another brand. Different scenarios here.

 

I just don't understand your logic that if you don't ever boo at a game, and if everybody sucked like Dunn, how do you expect your team to win, if you only cared about the Sox winning.

 

Well I expect that a manager like Ventura would do his job, or a GM like KW would do his job.

 

I dont need fans doing something that may hurt the players performance that night. That is the point, if you boo Dunn in the 1st inning and it impacts the other 3 at bats, who did you help?

 

I am asking, why do you want players to perform badly?