Jim Fainter Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Somehow, we are still in this thing. 40 games to go, 2 behind KC, 1 ahead of Minny. Unfortunately, both are playing better than we are. That could change, possibly. The first thing I would do is recognize that Olivo is hurting us. In the words of the immortal Bo Jackson, circa 1993 or 94, "We are a hitter short." Olivo's first at bat was pathetic. The game was still on the line, runner on third, 1 out, and he swings at three straight curves way out of the strilke zone. His last at bat was just as bad, but the game was already lost; the camera was right on him as he walked back to the dugout, and he looked defeated. His average will soon free fall toward Mendoza. He should be sent down to Charlotte where he might regroup and get ready for next year. Bring up either Burke or Rivera. They can both hit. The second thing I would do is recognize that Everett is not a big time centerfielder. He will cost us games out there. Last night his play contributed to early runs aganinst Loaiza. But I like his bat, so he has to play. It is either left or DH. Carlos has been playing pretty well. He is not consistent, but he is a legitimate bat. Gotta keep him in there, too. Your choice, JM, Carl and Carlos, left and DH. Play Rowand in center until he proves he can't do the job. The third thing I would do is recognize that Konerko is a very poor hitter, mediocre on defense, and verrrry slow. I know, I know, he just raised his average from .180 to .230 and he did hit a few BIG home runs that saved our ass, but that little streak was just an abberation. He is still a poor hitter who will hurt us in the next 6 weeks if he is in there every day. First base, it's between Thomas and Konerko, and the nod goes to Frank, but neither one is playing well now, so what difference does it make. The fourth thing I would do is start having second thoughts on Robbie. He is hurting us, too. He is the alter ego of Olivo, who swings at everything and misses, where Robbie takes pitches for strikes. Same result. If Robbie has another 1 for 20 week, his average will free fall down to around .230, and everyone will be on his ass. A week from now it might not make any difference, if we keep playing this way. But if we win a few games and Robbie does his no hit routine, he has to sit. Harris for the rest of 2003. I don't know what to do about shortstop. Keep playing Jose, I guess. Maybe that out he made at third when he was jogging around second toward third was a fluke, because he doesn't have a history of not hustling. Send Olivo down, bring up Burke or Rivera, DH Carl, bench Konerko, put Rowand in center. Team speed goes up, defense improves, hitting improves. I know I'm missing something here. Put Robbie on a very short leash. Like Bo said, we are a few hitters short. Like everyone else, I would love to see Reed, but it would just f*** with the 40 man roster some more and cost us another prospect this winter (as the Cotts move did), and if he comes up he has to play, so I would leave him in Birmingham and plan on his being here next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 We are going to win or lose this division race with the team basically composed as it is. Olivo will catch, Robbie Alomar will play 2nd, etc. They are not going to "back up the truck" while 2 games back with 40ish to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 jamie burke had 5 hits in 8 at bats in an 18-inning game last night didn't see enough of him in the big leagues to know how well he catches and throws. but I've seen enough of Olivo waving and missing at curveballs low and outside that he's been bagged and tagged as a hitter for this season. There's no reason to rush Reed. Let him finish the season in Birmingham, hit over .400 and then play in the Arizona Fall League. Very interested to see him play. But anybody who hits over .400 (he's now at .402) with nearly 200 at bats at AA ball has to be a tremendous offensive prospect. Robbie Alomar is in a funk. Until this road trip, he'd been getting on base pretty consistently. Gotta stick with him. I agree about Everett. Rowand needs to be in CF at least 2 to 3 times a week. Let Everett play LF or DH. Give Lee, Konerko and Frank a day off each. As for shortstop, we don't have many options -- now or for 2004 and beyond. in the end, it's the starting pitching that will have to get the job done because we all know that offensively this team will simply drive you crazy with its inconsistency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevingrt13 Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Too late to do the White Flag, heh??? Dammit, we are only two games out! If we win these next two or split them, I feel the worse we could be is 2 out! Now if you said going into this road trip that we would come out .5 game worse then we came in, I would take it in a heart beat, knowing how much this team sucks on the road. Please boys and girls, we have a long hell of a way to go, and maybe just maybe this team mite start working on all cylinders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forkit Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Jim, old buddy...you're panicing. First, you don't make wholesale changes, especially bringing so many young ones, near the end of a season in a division race. Second, your thoughts are mostly wrong. If Frank and Maggs are hitting, Olivo isn't hurting us. Robbie has really improved the play of this ballclub. Better re-think why you somehow can't see that. Carl...you want his bat this year, you have to live with him at center most of the time. That's just how the team is built this year. Sorry. Too late to make those changes in 2003. PK...Now there I agree you might be on to something. Personally, I'd use first more to get Frank back to form, then use it to give Carlos some first while Carl gets some left field, I'd getDaubach some play there and yes, sometimes I'd have Paulie there if he was hitting. But for now, keeping PK at first wouldn't by my priority for the rest of the season. Jose...another brain cramp last night...let him play against some righties, but I'd have Graffy whenever he is hitting good and much more often--not every day--but much more often. And last...don't forget...Loaiza gave up six runs last night. I guess it was his turn to be off his game. Too bad the big boys didn't hit early to help him out. But don't panic. That's how teams fall out of races.... Forkit! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 What can we do??? FIRE THAT MORON IN THE DUGOUT CALLED MANUEL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted August 16, 2003 Author Share Posted August 16, 2003 Forkit, no panic here. And I wasn't advocating bringing up young players. I even said "don't" bring up Reed. My biggest leap was sending Olivo down and bringing Burke up. Olivo IS hurting us. Everett to DH is not exactly a wholesale change. It just gets Rowand and his better defense and speed into the game at Konerko's expense. That is the big trade off. Rowand for Konerko. Alomar, I said give him another week. If he goes 1 for 20, again, everyone will be on his ass. No wholesale change there either. Please re-read what I initially said. After I made that post I read the article in the Trib where Carl said something to the effect that we need a spark, and we didn't play well last night, blah, blah. Send Olivo down, play Rowand, keep Carl and Carlos in the lineup, bench PK, live with Frank, Robbie and Jose. I just don't see anything radical or a wholesale change in there. Certainly not a panic. I started by saying that we are only 2 out with 40 to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 With the Twins, KC and Sox each having 14 games left against each other the formula is simple. If a team can win 10 or more of those games, they will win the AL Central. It is that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 PK...Now there I agree you might be on to something. Personally, I'd use first more to get Frank back to form, then use it to give Carlos some first while Carl gets some left field, I'd getDaubach some play there and yes, sometimes I'd have Paulie there if he was hitting. But for now, keeping PK at first wouldn't by my priority for the rest of the season. I love how the majority of Sox fans still think that playing Frank at first will automatically raise his BA .040-.050 points from that point until the end of the season Unbelievable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bighurt52235 Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 I didn't know Burke got sent back down. Who got called up in his spot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 I didn't know Burke got sent back down. Who got called up in his spot? Cotts came up for Burke. Adkins came up when Koch went on the DL;. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Adkins came up when Koch went on the DL;. Is there a difference between the two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Is there a difference between the two? One has a fastball in the mid 90's, the other is trying to find it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Hunker down? Cinch it up? Strap it down? Bow their necks? Ride'm hard and put'em away wet? I don't know, ask Hawk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 When I started this thread 24 hours ago, I made a few minor suggestions to help the Sox prevail in the Central. Well, I can't blame Saturday's loss on Olivo, althought it would have been worse had Sandy not been catching. I can't blame it on Robbie either, although I never advocated benching him immediately, just giving him a short leash. He came through. Moving Carl or Carlos to DH at the expense of Konerko would not have helped enough either. Notice that when I made my suggestions, I purposely neglected our pitching staff. I thought I would leave those matters to Jason, Rex, Cerb, et al. What happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 We have had 120 games to figure it out. It's time to hit the after burners and make the run. The starting rotation now has a question mark or two after E-Lo and Bart's last outings. Prior to that, they had been playing solid the past few starts. Let's hope those last starts are behind them and they play well from there. Neal needs to get us 6-7 innings and keep it close. The bats will have to help him out. The bullpen has struggled but with Kelly back and hopefully with a healthy Koch returning and being productive we just may have enough pitching to make it. Positions without question, good or bad - Robbie at 2nd Jose at SS Joe on 3rd Carlos and Maggs on the outfield corners Sandy and Olivo will platoon. Nobody catches everyday weeks on end. I like bringing up Burke in September to see if his bat is still hot. That's 6 of the 9 hitting spots. Who's left: Frank, Konerko, Everett, Daubach, Rowand, Graffy Who do you want in the game? I gotta go with Frank, Kong, and Everett in the starting spots. I would play Frank at 1st two games each week with Kong and Daubach splitting the DH those days. Rowand and Graffy are situation players. At this point I'm certain JM has explained to his players the who, what, when, where, and maybe even the why of everyone's roles from here to the post season. When you break it down it is very simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I love how the majority of Sox fans still think that playing Frank at first will automatically raise his BA .040-.050 points from that point until the end of the season Unbelievable Um...perhaps 13 years of stats supporting that idea have something to do with it? Duh. This year, .352 as a 1B, .234 as a DH, and for his career, his average is about 40 points higher as a 1B. Not at all saying that ratio would hold true if we move him back to 1B for a while, but it's worth a shot. We are going nowhere if Frank's average stays in the mid-.200's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniBob72 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I love how the majority of Sox fans still think that playing Frank at first will automatically raise his BA .040-.050 points from that point until the end of the season Unbelievable Um...perhaps 13 years of stats supporting that idea have something to do with it? Duh. This year, .352 as a 1B, .234 as a DH, and for his career, his average is about 40 points higher as a 1B. Not at all saying that ratio would hold true if we move him back to 1B for a while, but it's worth a shot. We are going nowhere if Frank's average stays in the mid-.200's. I was thinking the same thing. Not only that, but I think Frank is underrated at first...or PK is overrated. Paulie has contributed to more than a few losses with fielding gaffes. One that sticks out to me is the 8th inning of Buerhle's loss in Anaheim where he failed to get a glove on a shot right at him that led to the winning run. Maybe Frank doesn't come up with it either, but unless PK is absolutely Gold Glove at first, Frank's offense playing first more than makes up for it. The Sox getting back into it corresponded with Frank playing first. PK gets hot and all of a sudden Frank is sitting again. Bad move, IMO. Frank isn't great over there, but he can catch and pick it. He just can't throw the ball 90'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Manuel F'd this road trip up. There was talk of Frank at 1B by both the moron & Frank himself as a need to keep Frank in the game. We'on the F'g 6th gm now! Still no F'g Frank at 1B. FIRE THAT s***-HOLE WITH THE CLIP BOARD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I love how the majority of Sox fans still think that playing Frank at first will automatically raise his BA .040-.050 points from that point until the end of the season Unbelievable Um...perhaps 13 years of stats supporting that idea have something to do with it? Duh. Yeah..... 13 years of stats heavily weighted towards the beginning to middle of Frank's career. With exception of Frank's "blip" in 2000, the Frank of '99, '02, and '03 (leaving '01 out totally because of the triceps injury) is a far cry from the Frank that everyone here seems to think will return to pre-'99 form for the rest of '03 if only we play him at first base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUGGERNAUT Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I love how the majority of Sox fans still think that playing Frank at first will automatically raise his BA .040-.050 points from that point until the end of the season Unbelievable Um...perhaps 13 years of stats supporting that idea have something to do with it? Duh. Yeah..... 13 years of stats heavily weighted towards the beginning to middle of Frank's career. With exception of Frank's "blip" in 2000, the Frank of '99, '02, and '03 (leaving '01 out totally because of the triceps injury) is a far cry from the Frank that everyone here seems to think will return to pre-'99 form for the rest of '03 if only we play him at first base. What's your point? We have to look at the front of his career because that's where he played the most at 1B. But since you want to discount that then we will look at recent yrs: 2003: 1B 1212 OPS, DH 833 OPS 2002: 1B 1029 OPS, DH 833 OPS 2001: on DL most of the year 2002: 1B 1193 OPS, DH 1023 OPS 00-02: 1B 1109 OPS, DH 922 OPS Recent history says the same thing: if you play Frank at 1B most of the year he's a 1100 OPS player. Only our F'g moron manager ignores a near 400 OPS swing in 2003 & a near 200 OPS swing over the last 4 yrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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