Reason for White Sox Turnaround

[johnredman24]

It's evident that the White Sox have made a drastic turnaround since last year and there are many speculations why this is happening. Simply put, Ozzie out Robin in. Ventura has been the catalyst to this exploding offense and attitude surround the Sox Clubhouse. But this tends to be a trend when a manager gets ousted and a new one gets thrown in. Can the Sox keep competing like this? Obviously we won't find out if this will continue till we see what happens at the end of the season and how next season will start.

 

Robin Ventura

[caulfield12]

Greg?

 

Well, Bruney and D. Heath didn't contribute much, YET.

 

But the Charlotte/rookies on the roster point is well-taken.

 

Wish there would be something more substantive on:

 

 

1) Holding runners on base (note to Leyson Septimo, NOT GOOD!)

2) Throwing out runners

3) Hitting with RISP

4) Outfield assists

5) Advancing runners to 2nd or 3rd with less than 2 outs

6) Scoring runners from 3rd with less than 2 outs

7) Throwing through or to the cutoff man, instead of allowing the trail runner to move to 2nd

 

Edited July 10, 2012 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

Just as a friendly Soxtalk-style note, we don't mind our members talking about their own endeavors publicly. What we do mind is people joining the site for the express purpose of spamming our membership. If you'd like to stick around and join in our various discussions, that would be great. If you plan on just posting links to your site's articles and discussing them to drive traffic to your site, we will ban this, and all future, accounts.

 

Thanks.

[greg775]

I said a few weeks ago Robin was AL Manager of the Year and Ozzie NL manager. Obviously Ozzie has dropped out of that running with his team sucking the past month. If the season ended today Robin is AL manager of the year easily.

 

Whatever Website that is thinks both are good managers.

"Ozzie Guillen is not a bad manager, in fact I think he is a very good one, but in Chicago, it was time for a change. The fights between manager and GM grew to a point where it was more than a distraction. It was a cloud over the team that needed to be cleared. It got so bad here that even columnists were picking sides. If you wanted to hear from Kenny Williams or Guillen, you needed to read a specific writer and then you needed to decide what was real and what was fiction."

 

I won't rain on Robin's parade, not at all. I always liked him as a player and he's doing a great job obviously.

The reason for the turnaround is Robin, even more importantly the players.

Go through the lineup and pitching staff and assess grades to players. It's difficult to give many if any as low as a C. Most guys get As and Bs. Hopefully they'll all keep it up.

Edited July 10, 2012 by greg775

[JohnCangelosi]

Just as a friendly Soxtalk-style note, we don't mind our members talking about their own endeavors publicly. What we do mind is people joining the site for the express purpose of spamming our membership. If you'd like to stick around and join in our various discussions, that would be great. If you plan on just posting links to your site's articles and discussing them to drive traffic to your site, we will ban this, and all future, accounts.

 

Thanks.

Especially when they use anchor text "Robin Ventura" to link to the article to try to get some extra SEO juice to their website. Sorry but since I am in the internet business I can see this crap from a mile away.

[JohnCangelosi]

I said a few weeks ago Robin was AL Manager of the Year and Ozzie NL manager. Obviously Ozzie has dropped out of that running with his team sucking the past month. If the season ended today Robin is AL manager of the year easily.

 

Whatever Website that is thinks both are good managers.

"Ozzie Guillen is not a bad manager, in fact I think he is a very good one, but in Chicago, it was time for a change. The fights between manager and GM grew to a point where it was more than a distraction. It was a cloud over the team that needed to be cleared. It got so bad here that even columnists were picking sides. If you wanted to hear from Kenny Williams or Guillen, you needed to read a specific writer and then you needed to decide what was real and what was fiction."

 

I won't rain on Robin's parade, not at all. I always liked him as a player and he's doing a great job obviously.

The reason for the turnaround is Robin, even more importantly the players.

Go through the lineup and pitching staff and assess grades to players. It's difficult to give many if any as low as a C. Most guys get As and Bs. Hopefully they'll all keep it up.

Forgotten in all of this is the job Manto has done. Whether or not it is actually him, there is no doubt we're seeing a great turnaround from just about everyone in our lineup from a hitting standpoint. I have to credit him at least partially for getting our talented players back to where they should be.

[Soxbadger]

Ill take the opinions of people on Soxtalk, who could actually name the reporters, instead of a guy who came to Soxtalk to presumably troll hits.

 

 

[cabiness42]

Did a managerial change help? Yes, by virtue of having a new manager, and also by extension having a new hitting coach.

 

However, the managerial change has overshadowed some other major influences:

 

Dunn's turnaround may be at least somewhat, if not mostly due to personal issues

 

Peavy's turnaround is mostly due to being healthier.

 

Sale and Viciedo have gotten a year older and grown into their new roles.

 

Youkilis was brought in because of two injuries--his own, that made him expendable in Boston, and Morel's, which forced a move that may or may not have otherwise been made.

 

Rios' turnaround may or may not be related to a new manager and/or hitting coach, but he's also been very up and down throughout his entire career.

 

Injury to Danks gave Quintana a chance he might otherwise have never had.

 

I'm not saying Robin isn't doing a great job--he is, but he's benefited a lot from player development within the organization and some dumb luck injuries.

[bmags]

and Morel's, which forced a move that may or may not have otherwise been made.

 

I have a hard time believing this.

[hogan873]

If this team looked the same as it did on opening day and they were in the same position standings-wise, I'd say Robin has been doing a good job. Now look at this team with all of the changes due to injuries, and I say he and the entire coaching staff are doing an outstanding job.

 

The improvement of Dunn could be explained by his making adjustments and actually working out this winter. Peavy's turnaround is most likely health-related. Rios...I don't know. I think you have to attribute some of that to Robin and Manto. But, the team as a whole, playing loose and confident, I think that says a ton for Robin.

 

I'll second Greg's assessment here...so far, Robin is the AL Manager of the Year.

[Jerksticks]

I think players sucked on purpose to get Ozzie out of here. Absolutely no proof either way, whatever you believe.

[Quin]

Ill take the opinions of people on Soxtalk, who could actually name the reporters, instead of a guy who came to Soxtalk to presumably troll hits.

 

[kitekrazy]

Did a managerial change help? Yes, by virtue of having a new manager, and also by extension having a new hitting coach.

 

However, the managerial change has overshadowed some other major influences:

 

Dunn's turnaround may be at least somewhat, if not mostly due to personal issues

 

Peavy's turnaround is mostly due to being healthier.

 

Sale and Viciedo have gotten a year older and grown into their new roles.

 

Youkilis was brought in because of two injuries--his own, that made him expendable in Boston, and Morel's, which forced a move that may or may not have otherwise been made.

 

Rios' turnaround may or may not be related to a new manager and/or hitting coach, but he's also been very up and down throughout his entire career.

 

Injury to Danks gave Quintana a chance he might otherwise have never had.

 

I'm not saying Robin isn't doing a great job--he is, but he's benefited a lot from player development within the organization and some dumb luck injuries.

 

I thought that the benefit of having Ventura is he adds an extra set of eyes for a hitting coach. Those hitting coaches can miss a lot of things after being with players for so long. Walker did not have this advantage. Ozzie and Cora were glove guys. Even under Ozzie the Sox were some of the best fielding teams.

 

I also believe the success is due to more teams being bad. After the way Detroit finished last season you would think there wouldn't be a division race this year. The Twins are getting to the level of Cub bad.

 

Two of the important pieces last season weren't even mediocre. You have Peavy back to form, Dunn driving in runs, Rios having a decent year. Those things add up tremendously. If that existed last year they might have won the division. As much as people don't like to hear it on this site, journalists outside of Chicago gave Ozzie credit for having the team still in the race that long with some unproductive big name players. I hope this doesn't escalate into an Ozzie vs. Ventura thread.

 

I still think the Tigers are going to take the division. The Sox had to rely on a lot of youth for success. Who knows how that will pan out when there is a lot more pressure. Sale and Quintana have out performed Danks and Floyd. That's not a good thing. I just think the veteran Tigers are going to beat the kids this year. If it turns out that way I won't be too disappointed. We are seeing achieving instead of the usual under achieving. You are not turning the TV off after the 7th thinking it's an automatic loss when they are down.

 

I think with guys like Dunn and Rios performing better it takes some pressure off guys like Beckham. Alexi seems to have lost some power but he has made some key hits.

Edited July 11, 2012 by kitekrazy

[cabiness42]

I still think the Tigers are going to take the division.

 

I still don't get why so many people are saying this. I've people saying this on espn.com, Sports Illustrated, and here. The Tigers are giving up nearly 4½ runs per game, and they have a lot of games left against the top 5 offenses in the league (TEX, BOS, TOR, NYY, SOX). Their defense isn't going to get much better.

 

Now, something could always happen to cause the Sox to fall apart, but I don't see the Tigers winning more than 85-86 games.

[balfanman]

Ozzie and Cora were glove guys. Even under Ozzie the Sox were some of the best fielding teams.

 

This is not true. They were okay with the glove itself, well except for Pierre. But the Sox until this season were horrible on fundamental baseball. Defensively, offensively, base running, you name it. Ozzie talked often of fundamentals, but never seemed to do anything about it. Not to mention his assinine use of players out of positon, centerfield mostly, but others as well.

 

Ozzie had his good points as a manager and I'll give him plenty of praise for the things that he did well, but having good defensive, fundamently sound teams was not one of his positive attributes.

[balfanman]

I still don't get why so many people are saying this. I've people saying this on espn.com, Sports Illustrated, and here. The Tigers are giving up nearly 4½ runs per game, and they have a lot of games left against the top 5 offenses in the league (TEX, BOS, TOR, NYY, SOX). Their defense isn't going to get much better.

 

Now, something could always happen to cause the Sox to fall apart, but I don't see the Tigers winning more than 85-86 games.

 

I agree with this sentiment.

[Wedge]

I still don't get why so many people are saying this. I've people saying this on espn.com, Sports Illustrated, and here. The Tigers are giving up nearly 4½ runs per game, and they have a lot of games left against the top 5 offenses in the league (TEX, BOS, TOR, NYY, SOX). Their defense isn't going to get much better.

 

Last year prior to the All-Star break, the Tigers gave up 421 runs in 92 games (4.57 runs against/game).

 

The Tigers had an amazing second half last year. They reduced that runs against to 4.1/game. They scored 5.35 runs a game. They added Prince Fielder to their line-up. I think people are right to at least be concerned.

 

Good news for the Sox is that they'll have a significant say in how the Tigers finish up, as the two squads have 10 games remaining. Even breaking even is a win for the Sox.

[caulfield12]

I thought that the benefit of having Ventura is he adds an extra set of eyes for a hitting coach. Those hitting coaches can miss a lot of things after being with players for so long. Walker did not have this advantage. Ozzie and Cora were glove guys. Even under Ozzie the Sox were some of the best fielding teams.

 

I also believe the success is due to more teams being bad. After the way Detroit finished last season you would think there wouldn't be a division race this year. The Twins are getting to the level of Cub bad.

 

Two of the important pieces last season weren't even mediocre. You have Peavy back to form, Dunn driving in runs, Rios having a decent year. Those things add up tremendously. If that existed last year they might have won the division. As much as people don't like to hear it on this site, journalists outside of Chicago gave Ozzie credit for having the team still in the race that long with some unproductive big name players. I hope this doesn't escalate into an Ozzie vs. Ventura thread.

 

I still think the Tigers are going to take the division. The Sox had to rely on a lot of youth for success. Who knows how that will pan out when there is a lot more pressure. Sale and Quintana have out performed Danks and Floyd. That's not a good thing. I just think the veteran Tigers are going to beat the kids this year. If it turns out that way I won't be too disappointed. We are seeing achieving instead of the usual under achieving. You are not turning the TV off after the 7th thinking it's an automatic loss when they are down.

 

I think with guys like Dunn and Rios performing better it takes some pressure off guys like Beckham. Alexi seems to have lost some power but he has made some key hits.

 

At the beginning of the year, we kept saying that we were giving up 7-8 wins by subtracting Quentin, Santos and Buehrle.

 

Santos has been adequately replaced by Reed, although last year's bullpen was better on paper.

 

Quentin and Viciedo are about a wash, overall, because obviously CQ would have missed 2 months.

 

Quintana has made up for the loss of Buehrle, but the fall offs from Danks and Humber have really hurt.

 

Youkilis adds a huge bat and presence.

 

 

Let's say Konerko, Beckham, Dayan (I actually think he'll do better in the 2nd half), DeAza have played about as expected...perhaps Paulie should fall OPS-wise, but his HR and RBI numbers are actually below-average for him.

 

Ramirez has good RBI totals but very little power. Rios can't expected to continue to be this good, while Dunn hopefully will be similar, while cutting down the K's. AJ will regress, for no other reason than playing too often and wearing down in the heat of July/Aug/September.

 

The bench and bullpen is a weak spot and a worry, but DET's is no sure thing, either.

 

 

As usual, it's going to come down to pitching. On paper, DET has us beat unless Danks comes back and contributes like we expected b4 the season or we make another major addition.

 

DET, if they add some offense (2B, LF, RF, DH)....let's just say they have more room or expectation to improve offensively than we do, with an owner willing to spend and a better minor league system.

 

That 16/19 stretch on the road, we'll be pretty fortunate to still be in 1st place at the end of that stretch.

 

After that, it gets a lot easier. Just need to be no worse than 4-6 games over .500 (8-11/7-12). Then we face the Angels, who might actually end up being the best team in the AL if they can get enough starting pitching. Tough. Has the feel of that 2008 race, where it will be a grind all the way down to the end...87-88-89 wins to take the division.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2012 by caulfield12

[Special K]

It's evident that the White Sox have made a drastic turnaround since last year and there are many speculations why this is happening. Simply put, Ozzie out Robin in. Ventura has been the catalyst to this exploding offense and attitude surround the Sox Clubhouse. But this tends to be a trend when a manager gets ousted and a new one gets thrown in. Can the Sox keep competing like this? Obviously we won't find out if this will continue till we see what happens at the end of the season and how next season will start.

 

Robin Ventura

 

I don't doubt Ozzie being gone having a huge impact on this team's success, however, let's not forget the stranglehold on our offense that was Greg Walker is gone. Team is obviously hitting much better.

 

For instance, Alex Rios, if anybody saw, comcast showed his 2011 batting stance vs. the 2012 and they were drastically different.

 

Dunn obviously much better as well.

[everafan]

I still don't get why so many people are saying this. I've people saying this on espn.com, Sports Illustrated, and here. The Tigers are giving up nearly 4½ runs per game, and they have a lot of games left against the top 5 offenses in the league (TEX, BOS, TOR, NYY, SOX). Their defense isn't going to get much better.

 

Now, something could always happen to cause the Sox to fall apart, but I don't see the Tigers winning more than 85-86 games.

 

The reason that the national media is saying it is because thus far, thier preseason predictions were horrible and lazy. If they admit they were wrong now, and the Tigers take over, then they were wrong twice. If they stick with their original projection - at worst they're only wrong once - and there's still a slim chance that they're right. And nobody really holds them accountable anyway.

 

I don't know how a real Sox fan can say this. If you can't believe in this team and what you see on the field right now, what can you believe in? Why bother being a fan if you can't enjoy your 1st place Chicago White Sox.

[everafan]

I don't doubt Ozzie being gone having a huge impact on this team's success, however, let's not forget the stranglehold on our offense that was Greg Walker is gone. Team is obviously hitting much better.

 

For instance, Alex Rios, if anybody saw, comcast showed his 2011 batting stance vs. the 2012 and they were drastically different.

 

Dunn obviously much better as well.

 

Ozzie was Walker's boss. Ozzie is responsible for his staff's failure or success.

 

[southsider2k5]

The reason that the national media is saying it is because thus far, thier preseason predictions were horrible and lazy. If they admit they were wrong now, and the Tigers take over, then they were wrong twice. If they stick with their original projection - at worst they're only wrong once - and there's still a slim chance that they're right. And nobody really holds them accountable anyway.

 

I don't know how a real Sox fan can say this. If you can't believe in this team and what you see on the field right now, what can you believe in? Why bother being a fan if you can't enjoy your 1st place Chicago White Sox.

 

Even today, I will still call the Tigers the favorites in the AL Central. Maybe I am alone on that, maybe not, but they are a way more talented team than the White Sox.

[justBLAZE]

Even today, I will still call the Tigers the favorites in the AL Central. Maybe I am alone on that, maybe not, but they are a way more talented team than the White Sox.

 

The only reason why I will call the Tigers the favorites and don't really mind the media doing so... I think it's better for the White Sox to be the underdogs. Kinda like 05.

[balfanman]

Even today, I will still call the Tigers the favorites in the AL Central. Maybe I am alone on that, maybe not, but they are a way more talented team than the White Sox.

 

Not sure that I totally agree with this. Detroit may have more offensive talent, and I'm not even sure of that, but no where near the defensive talent. Pitching I would place the talent level about even right now, but if Danks or Humber come back strong I would give the advantage to the Sox.

 

The wild card in all of this is what, if anything, each team acquires and how the acquired players perform.

[cabiness42]

Detroit may have more offensive talent

 

They may have more offensive talent, but they are only outhitting the Sox at SS, 3B, and CF. It's going to take a very significant acquisition for the Tigers to be able to take this division away from the Sox.