What happened to Cowley

[everafan]

And as usual, Cowley couldn't keep himself from throwing K.W. under the bus, as if it was K.W's fault that fundamentals were not taught, or players held accountable for executing them.

 

 

Totally bush league to suggest that KW's personal life and petty jealousy precluded him from paying attention to his job. Back it up Cowley!!!!

[EvilJester99]

He was on Mully and Hanley this morning and sounded very neutered.. the arrogance seemed to be wayyyy down compared to his normal schtick

[Kyyle23]

I disagree that Cowley has absolutely no baseball insight, but he is so jaded by the dynamic between Ozzie and KW that he just cannot express any insight anymore. I have listened to him on Hit&Run a few times, and he has had some interesting things to say, but as soon as he can he injects Ozzie into the discussion and it just becomes the same thing.

 

I listened for 5 minutes the other day on my way to Jewel, and within those 5 minutes he managed to say "You know I was talking to Walker in the offseason, and he said to me 'You wouldnt believe some of the stuff going on in the clubhouse last season, it was unbelievable and unprofessional'"

 

Well of course Walker is going to say that, the guy left with an obvious chip on his shoulder and was blamed for a lot of the hitting problems(rightly or wrongly, Im not looking to get into a debate over it DA). He isnt going to have anything nice to say.

 

Now that he is "neutered" I have seen some of articles, and he has been staying out of baseball talk a lot. This last article was a lot of the old stuff though, very disappointing.

 

[thedoctor]

I disagree that Cowley has absolutely no baseball insight, but he is so jaded by the dynamic between Ozzie and KW that he just cannot express any insight anymore. I have listened to him on Hit&Run a few times, and he has had some interesting things to say, but as soon as he can he injects Ozzie into the discussion and it just becomes the same thing.

 

I listened for 5 minutes the other day on my way to Jewel, and within those 5 minutes he managed to say "You know I was talking to Walker in the offseason, and he said to me 'You wouldnt believe some of the stuff going on in the clubhouse last season, it was unbelievable and unprofessional'"

 

Well of course Walker is going to say that, the guy left with an obvious chip on his shoulder and was blamed for a lot of the hitting problems(rightly or wrongly, Im not looking to get into a debate over it DA). He isnt going to have anything nice to say.

 

Now that he is "neutered" I have seen some of articles, and he has been staying out of baseball talk a lot. This last article was a lot of the old stuff though, very disappointing.

 

agreed. i actually really enjoyed cowley when he first got to chicago and was working for the southtown. i thought he often did a better job of handling the beat than some of the other guys at the time. i thought the s-t made a great hire when they brought him on after padilla left.

 

but the ozzie/kw stuff just totally changed his approach to his work. he moved from reporter to entertainer, and while there's a market for both, he isn't as good at the latter.

[caulfield12]

But look at all the players who KW was part of drafting that were hybrid baseball/football players or never taught how to play the game fundamentally well...

 

You can blame it on the minor league staff, but drafting athletes and turning them into baseball players hasn't worked on the position player side.

 

Beckham was supposed to be a "pure/natural/instinctive baseball player" and look where we're at with him. It's like he is either listening too much to others or he won't listen enough and he's stubborn, because you can't have a 15 homer guy striking out 150 times per season and not hitting well with RISP or advancing runners professionally.

 

We've proven we can find pitching talent. And maybe Viciedo will become an All-Star. And maybe Hawkins or Barnum will make it, but we've always done better finding guys like Quentin and DeAza when they're with other organizations.

 

It is fitting that Youkilis kind of represents something we've never been able to produce ourselves. High OBP. Patience. Ability to professionally work an at-bat and extend it. Clutch hitter. Granted, there aren't that many Youkilises out there...but it's almost like Morel was the anti-Youkilis in terms of patience and drawing walks.

 

And yeah, we might produce a "grindy" infielder like an Aaron Miles or Chris Getz from time to time, but they're not impact players.

 

And while a LOT of teams missed on Trout, it's ironic that we picked the high risk/high reward guy in Mitchell instead. (At least Mitchell's proven he can take a walk in 2012, there's that.)

 

 

 

 

 

[Kyyle23]

But look at all the players who KW was part of drafting that were hybrid baseball/football players or never taught how to play the game fundamentally well...

 

You can blame it on the minor league staff, but drafting athletes and turning them into baseball players hasn't worked on the position player side.

 

Beckham was supposed to be a "pure/natural/instinctive baseball player" and look where we're at with him. It's like he is either listening too much to others or he won't listen enough and he's stubborn, because you can't have a 15 homer guy striking out 150 times per season and not hitting well with RISP or advancing runners professionally.

 

We've proven we can find pitching talent. And maybe Viciedo will become an All-Star. And maybe Hawkins or Barnum will make it, but we've always done better finding guys like Quentin and DeAza when they're with other organizations.

 

It is fitting that Youkilis kind of represents something we've never been able to produce ourselves. High OBP. Patience. Ability to professionally work an at-bat and extend it. Clutch hitter. Granted, there aren't that many Youkilises out there...but it's almost like Morel was the anti-Youkilis in terms of patience and drawing walks.

 

And yeah, we might produce a "grindy" infielder like an Aaron Miles or Chris Getz from time to time, but they're not impact players.

 

And while a LOT of teams missed on Trout, it's ironic that we picked the high risk/high reward guy in Mitchell instead. (At least Mitchell's proven he can take a walk in 2012, there's that.)

 

What matters is the major league team, not who was drafted and who is fumbling around in the minors. And more often than not, Ozzie was given some really good teams that never played up to potential.

 

 

 

[caulfield12]

What matters is the major league team, not who was drafted and who is fumbling around in the minors. And more often than not, Ozzie was given some really good teams that never played up to potential.

 

 

Yes, BUT...

 

If JR isn't willing to take on additional salary, then it severely hamstrings our ability to make a deal for an impact pitcher.

 

Mitchell just doesn't quite make it right now as the centerpiece of any type of trade. Same with Castro. Intriguing, sure, but you don't trade a Hamels or Greinke for huge question marks.

 

Even those "sure thing" guys like Maybin/Andrew Miller or all the prospects the Brewers gave up for Sabathia, or the Mets for Santana....none of those guys have panned out.

 

 

[Kyyle23]

Yes, BUT...

 

If JR isn't willing to take on additional salary, then it severely hamstrings our ability to make a deal for an impact pitcher.

 

Mitchell just doesn't quite make it right now as the centerpiece of any type of trade. Same with Castro. Intriguing, sure, but you don't trade a Hamels or Greinke for huge question marks.

 

Even those "sure thing" guys like Maybin/Andrew Miller or all the prospects the Brewers gave up for Sabathia, or the Mets for Santana....none of those guys have panned out.

 

Wherever did they say JR wasnt willing to take on additional salary? Pretty much every season JR gives KW money to make moves if they feel that there is a chance to win it.

 

Everything you are saying above is just you guessing, we have no idea what is or is not an option or monetarily feasible.

[caulfield12]

Wherever did they say JR wasnt willing to take on additional salary? Pretty much every season JR gives KW money to make moves if they feel that there is a chance to win it.

 

Everything you are saying above is just you guessing, we have no idea what is or is not an option or monetarily feasible.

 

 

Well, yeah....Dick Allen and someone, I think "iamshack" already had this debate.

 

It is a fact, however, that it does SOMEWHAT limit our options in terms of acquisitions if money/payroll space is the only weapon in our arsenal.

 

We got really really lucky with Youkilis. He was the victim of circumstances in Boston. But the odds of that happening twice...especially now with everyone focusing on the trademark and buying/selling...not nearly as good.

[Kyyle23]

Well, yeah....Dick Allen and someone, I think "iamshack" already had this debate.

 

It is a fact, however, that it does SOMEWHAT limit our options in terms of acquisitions if money/payroll space is the only weapon in our arsenal.

 

We got really really lucky with Youkilis. He was the victim of circumstances in Boston. But the odds of that happening twice...especially now with everyone focusing on the trademark and buying/selling...not nearly as good.

 

Again, you are guessing that the Sox only can pick up unwanted players and dont have money/players/prospects to make a move. We have seen this movie before, and many times it has ended with KW making a surprise acquisition like Peavy with a bunch of prospects that nobody on this board thought would be taken.

 

 

I know this, if KW wants a player, he will go for it. if he wants Greinke and thinks he can resign him(which i think is the issue, not Greinke's mentality), then he will have to be outbid for Greinke. The problem is that Texas does have a stud in the minors, so they have a sweetener that the Sox do not currently have.

 

But at the same time, going after Greinke is not really KW's MO. He goes after players that have contracts that go past the current season, so we all might be focusing on the wrong crop of pitchers.

[balfanman]

I listened for 5 minutes the other day on my way to Jewel, and within those 5 minutes he managed to say "You know I was talking to Walker in the offseason, and he said to me 'You wouldnt believe some of the stuff going on in the clubhouse last season, it was unbelievable and unprofessional'"

 

And yet Cowley twisted all of the comments in the article to be K.W's fault rather than the guy who is, you know, in charge of the clubhouse.

 

I'm not saying that K.W. is totally innocent in all of this, but I doubt very much if it was all, or very much of even, his fault.

[southsider2k5]

And SSS pretty well demolishes the "not robin" theory.

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2012/7/11/3150...ficiency-expert

[balfanman]

And SSS pretty well demolishes the "not robin" theory.

 

http://www.southsidesox.com/2012/7/11/3150...ficiency-expert

 

Great article. Every day that goes by, even though I don't consider myself an Ozzie hater, it is proven how bad a manger he really is. You have to keep tabs on the actual (baseball) activities of your players and coaches, not just assume it's being done. Even though he gave lip service to fundamentals, he obviously never cared enough to actually practice it, or enforce it.

 

Yes, I know, Greg.

[caulfield12]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/cowley/1372...kes-to-win.html

 

 

Williams getting credit for the Youkilis deal? What?

 

Had to get the shot from Cabrera in...laying down the gauntlet, but that was pretty weak in terms of his usual sensationalist journalism. Not exactly a locker room quote which will be used against the big guy later.

[kitekrazy]

But look at all the players who KW was part of drafting that were hybrid baseball/football players or never taught how to play the game fundamentally well...

 

You can blame it on the minor league staff, but drafting athletes and turning them into baseball players hasn't worked on the position player side.

 

Beckham was supposed to be a "pure/natural/instinctive baseball player" and look where we're at with him. It's like he is either listening too much to others or he won't listen enough and he's stubborn, because you can't have a 15 homer guy striking out 150 times per season and not hitting well with RISP or advancing runners professionally.

 

We've proven we can find pitching talent. And maybe Viciedo will become an All-Star. And maybe Hawkins or Barnum will make it, but we've always done better finding guys like Quentin and DeAza when they're with other organizations.

 

It is fitting that Youkilis kind of represents something we've never been able to produce ourselves. High OBP. Patience. Ability to professionally work an at-bat and extend it. Clutch hitter. Granted, there aren't that many Youkilises out there...but it's almost like Morel was the anti-Youkilis in terms of patience and drawing walks.

 

And yeah, we might produce a "grindy" infielder like an Aaron Miles or Chris Getz from time to time, but they're not impact players.

 

And while a LOT of teams missed on Trout, it's ironic that we picked the high risk/high reward guy in Mitchell instead. (At least Mitchell's proven he can take a walk in 2012, there's that.)

 

I like this post.

[caulfield12]

I like this post.

 

 

I like The Kite Runner.

[kitekrazy]

What matters is the major league team, not who was drafted and who is fumbling around in the minors. And more often than not, Ozzie was given some really good teams that never played up to potential.

 

I don't know about that. There is no accurate measurement of manager vs. player in that scenario. Maybe that was their potential. I guess if teams that had similar stats other than wins were in the post season, I can see that. I think it's real easy to blame everything on Ozzie that the team is doing well. The difference is there was no high expectations for the 2012 Sox.

 

[caulfield12]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/cowley/1379...-scores-to.html

 

 

So Cowley doesn't constantly use Ozzie as an excuse to fill column inches, just like he's complaining all the Chicago media "take advantage" of the Ozzie story? Cowley wouldn't exist without Ozzie. He tried to get in front of the "Ozzie Coming Back to Chicago" story again and almost no one even noticed.

 

"Chicago tough." I bet Ozzie Guillen didn't even say that, Cowley surely made that quote up just to rile up KW.

 

And he's going to take credit for Viciedo in the outfield when he patently refused all season long to bench Pierre for him? HILARIOUS.

 

Maybe he should take the credit for Dunn and Rios playing so well in 2012, as a result of his not benching them last year.

 

 

 

 

 

Just admit it: You miss Ozzie Guillen.

 

Oh, sure, you’ve fooled yourself into believing life is better for the White Sox without all the noise. You’ve convinced yourself the newfound tranquillity on the South Side is just what everyone needed. In your eyes, Guillen in any other ZIP code is a good thing.

 

Then again, denial is the first stage of grief.

 

Guillen will be at Wrigley Field on Tuesday for the first time as the manager of the Miami Marlins. And before he takes one step onto the field at the Friendly Confines, he knows what awaits his homecoming.

 

Most columnists already have their stories written about how the Sox are so much better without Guillen. Radio talk-show hosts have their ‘‘Ozzie moratorium’’ in place. It has been broken 12 times since June, but they mean it this time.

 

Guillen knows what to expect, and he has been keeping score. (has to be a shot at the radio station, hasn't his appearances been cut back there???)

 

‘‘Good, make that excuse because the manager [Robin Ventura] is my friend,’’ Guillen said in a phone interview. ‘‘I want that ballclub to succeed; I have friends on the White Sox. People want to run around and say the coaching staff is better now. Well, check the numbers. Check the numbers for what I did for that city.

 

‘‘And good or bad, they won’t stop talking about me. Every time they walk into U.S. Cellular Field, the first thing they see is me holding the World Series trophy.’’

 

It’s an image far too many would like to erase. (where did that come from? the persecution complex is worse than Hugo Chavez) But what can’t be erased are Guillen’s 678 victories with the Sox, the fact he was the only manager to guide them to more than one playoff appearance and, of course, that World Series trophy.

 

Plus, Guillen’s influence is all over the first-place Sox this season. It was Guillen who wanted Alexei Ramirez to play shortstop when the Sox’ brass was thinking of him as a center fielder. It was Guillen who thought Dayan Viciedo should be an outfielder, while others were cramming him into corner-infield spots. It was Guillen who saved second baseman Gordon Beckham from being busted down to Class AAA Charlotte multiple times. And the list goes on. (Because Gordon Beckham's career has clearly been turned around in a positive fashion by Ozzie and Walker).

 

Guillen’s fingerprints are all over this Sox team, like it or not.

 

‘‘I was in Chicago last week for the All-Star break, and I heard the [bleep] that people are talking,’’ Guillen said. ‘‘I hear the backstabbing comments. I said when I took the job with Miami that if [the Sox] played like they were capable of, Robin will be manager of the year. They didn’t play well for me, and I take that blame.

 

‘‘But the media is all of a sudden angry with me? I answered every question I was ever asked. They don’t have the balls to say [bleep] when I was there. Tell the people in Chicago to look up and see who I blamed when we lost (pretty much every member of the White Sox was thrown under the bus at one point or another, except AJ, Buehrle and Konerko). I’m not a chicken [bleep], like the media there.’’

 

He’s not backing down from where his Marlins are in the National League East standings, either. They are 42-46 and trail the Washington Nationals by 10 games.

 

‘‘We’re not playing good baseball, and that’s on me,’’ Guillen said.

 

Guillen would like to promise a turnaround for the Marlins, but he can’t. What he can promise is that certain media members — the ones who once smiled to his face but since have stabbed him in the back — shouldn’t bother talking to him Tuesday.

 

‘‘Write your [bleep],’’ Guillen said. ‘‘I remember the cheap shots and the names. I see people around me [Tuesday], it will be a pretty quick conversation.’’ (Yeah, right, it that press conference will go longer than the Marlins' longest winning streak this year.)

 

What can’t be overlooked about Tuesday, with the Sox playing in Boston and the Cubs about to be broken up for prospects, is that Guillen will be the epicenter of Chicago sports. Now that’s staying power.

 

‘‘See everyone Tuesday,’’ Guillen said. ‘‘I’m not hiding. Like I’ve said, I’m the real Chicago tough.’’

 

So you don’t miss him? If you reached this point of the column, you really do.

Edited July 17, 2012 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/cowley/1379...-scores-to.html

 

 

So Cowley doesn't constantly use Ozzie as an excuse to fill column inches, just like he's complaining all the Chicago media "take advantage" of the Ozzie story? Cowley wouldn't exist without Ozzie. He tried to get in front of the "Ozzie Coming Back to Chicago" story again and almost no one even noticed.

 

"Chicago tough." I bet Ozzie Guillen didn't even say that, Cowley surely made that quote up just to rile up KW.

 

And he's going to take credit for Viciedo in the outfield when he patently refused all season long to bench Pierre for him? HILARIOUS.

 

Maybe he should take the credit for Dunn and Rios playing so well in 2012, as a result of his not benching them last year.

 

Do everyone a favor and quote the article, so no one has to click the link

[Quin]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/cowley/1379...-scores-to.html

 

Just admit it: You miss Ozzie Guillen.

 

Then again, denial is the first stage of grief.

 

The first line: We know you do Joe, we know you do.

Second line: Joe's in denial because he know's he'll be out a job soon.

[ILMOU]

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/cowley/1379...-scores-to.html

 

Cowley is insufferable. Please just move to Miami already, Joe.

[Harry Chappas]

I watch baseball because I like Spanish speaking soap operas that is why I miss Guillen as my cable provider does not have Telemundo.

 

What a waste of an article. There really is no conversation to even start there.

[Melissa1334]

Cowley is insufferable. Please just move to Miami already, Joe.

that is hilarious lol

Plus, Guillen’s influence is all over the first-place Sox this season. It was Guillen who wanted Alexei Ramirez to play shortstop when the Sox’ brass was thinking of him as a center fielder. It was Guillen who thought Dayan Viciedo should be an outfielder, while others were cramming him into corner-infield spots. It was Guillen who saved second baseman Gordon Beckham from being busted down to

Class AAA Charlotte multiple times. And the list goes on.

 

and lol @ the last part: So you don’t miss him? If you reached this point of the column, you really do. wow

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

I watch baseball because I like Spanish speaking soap operas that is why I miss Guillen as my cable provider does not have Telemundo.

 

What a waste of an article. There really is no conversation to even start there.

 

 

I watched the first episode of the Marlins docudrama thing on cable. Ozzie is such a jackass. Instead of a peptalk in Spring Training it went a little something like this:

 

Jeff Loria: And your new manager, Ozzie Guillen

Ozzie Guillen: f*** f***ity f*** f*** f*** mutherf***ers, f*** you f***ers f*** f***.

Players: Stunned faces

Ozzie Guillen: I make the Goddamn lineup, you mutherf***ers, f***! 2005!!!11!!!!1!!!

 

... show profiles the open day loss.... then moves to locker room after the game...

 

Jeff Loria: You alright Ozzie?

Ozzie Guillen: I'm always alright.

Ozzie Guillen (to players): f*** f***ity f*** f*** f*** mutherf***ers, f*** you f***ers f*** f***.

Players: Stunned faces

 

I am so glad he isn't our manager anymore.

 

 

[cabiness42]

Cowley reference on a BP article:

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article....articleid=17719

 

Three innings into the game, the reporter who had for years functioned as Ozzie's personal mouthpiece started to leisurely stroll around the box with a Cheshire cat's grin on his face. The news began to circulate: Ozzie was already gone.