caulfield12 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 14, 2012 -> 12:54 PM) Cooper is the rockstar of pitching coaches good with the bad. Jackson was in roughly the same boat as Volquez is now when they traded for him and that worked out pretty well. How? Jackson's a major workhorse. Volquez has been injury-prone and hasn't made 30+ starts too often in his career. And very few have ever questioned Edwin's character, work ethic or as a teammate. Can't say the same about Volquez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 14, 2012 -> 01:14 PM) How? Jackson's a major workhorse. Volquez has been injury-prone and hasn't made 30+ starts too often in his career. And very few have ever questioned Edwin's character, work ethic or as a teammate. Can't say the same about Volquez. When the Sox traded for Jackson his ERA was 5.16. Volquez is a similar style pitcher in that he has a good fastball, but has control problems. It would be nice if he was a workhorse, but at the time the Sox traded for Jackson they didn't have Peavy. At this moment, the Sox need quality innings more than just innings. Volquez is the best option aside from Hamels or Greinke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pktmotion Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 14, 2012 -> 01:49 PM) When the Sox traded for Jackson his ERA was 5.16. Volquez is a similar style pitcher in that he has a good fastball, but has control problems. It would be nice if he was a workhorse, but at the time the Sox traded for Jackson they didn't have Peavy. At this moment, the Sox need quality innings more than just innings. Volquez is the best option aside from Hamels or Greinke. A package of Volquez and Street is really what the White Sox would need to propel them in the 2nd half and possibly through the playoffs. Who do we give up, though? We're thin in the farm and don't want to disturb the ML club because they're doing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Everyone in majors talking Hamels, what's up with Holladay, we know Kenny tried for him once (before he went to Phillies), what's his contract like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 14, 2012 -> 01:49 PM) When the Sox traded for Jackson his ERA was 5.16. Volquez is a similar style pitcher in that he has a good fastball, but has control problems. It would be nice if he was a workhorse, but at the time the Sox traded for Jackson they didn't have Peavy. At this moment, the Sox need quality innings more than just innings. Volquez is the best option aside from Hamels or Greinke. I don't know how you can definitively say he'd be better than say, Garza or Dempster. Look at what happened to Latos when he went to Great American Ballpark. Volquez throws hard, but the ball leaves the park 1.5X that speed at USCF in July/Aug/September. Once again, there were no character issues with Edwin like there are with Edinson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Jul 14, 2012 -> 02:09 PM) Everyone in majors talking Hamels, what's up with Holladay, we know Kenny tried for him once (before he went to Phillies), what's his contract like? Halladay...no. Not happening, for a number of reasons. Most importantly, because he's missed so much time with that muscle strain. I'd think we learned our lesson with Peavy. Roy has been out for basically 2 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 14, 2012 -> 02:35 PM) I don't know how you can definitively say he'd be better than say, Garza or Dempster. Look at what happened to Latos when he went to Great American Ballpark. Volquez throws hard, but the ball leaves the park 1.5X that speed at USCF in July/Aug/September. Once again, there were no character issues with Edwin like there are with Edinson. I could write that 1+1 = 2 and you'd take the opposing view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Edwin Jackson was fantastic for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 14, 2012 -> 12:49 PM) When the Sox traded for Jackson his ERA was 5.16. Volquez is a similar style pitcher in that he has a good fastball, but has control problems. It would be nice if he was a workhorse, but at the time the Sox traded for Jackson they didn't have Peavy. At this moment, the Sox need quality innings more than just innings. Volquez is the best option aside from Hamels or Greinke. I'm going to agree with Marty here, insomuch as we're comparing two guys whose raw talent has never been questioned, but whose results have not always matched. And EJax hasn't exactly had a squeaky clean rep, with rumors of "smokiness", and the endless teamhopping that might have something to do with that. (Not that I would ever hold that against the man) And, well, I'll probably start a thread soon, but hasn't Coop proven to be worth every penny this year, and then some? Who else could steer this ship of toddlers so well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I don't think we "need" Huston Street and Volquez to compete, but they might be useful. I wouldn't give up too much for them and almost certainly nothing on the current roster. I would be absolutely shocked if we went for a big fish at this point, we really don't have the guns to do it if we plan on keeping our offense potent. As far as Halladay goes, I think he has a torn labrum. Wouldn't shock me if we don't hear much from him again, but we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 14, 2012 -> 04:49 PM) I don't think we "need" Huston Street and Volquez to compete, but they might be useful. I wouldn't give up too much for them and almost certainly nothing on the current roster. I would be absolutely shocked if we went for a big fish at this point, we really don't have the guns to do it if we plan on keeping our offense potent. As far as Halladay goes, I think he has a torn labrum. Wouldn't shock me if we don't hear much from him again, but we'll see. They say he strained the same back muscle that Peavy tore. He is on the shelf for the foreseeable future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitekrazy Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 09:12 AM) Hamels and Grienke will cost a great package of prospects. We do not have those prospects. I think Dempster is the best fit. However, I think Brandon McCarthy can help us out along the way as well. Wouldn't that be something? Danks is out so we bring in the pitcher we traded him for to help us get in the playoffs I think the Sox will get outbid on Dempster as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 14, 2012 -> 03:54 PM) They say he strained the same back muscle that Peavy tore. He is on the shelf for the foreseeable future That can't be good. FWIW, I recently saw Doc's little "shrine" at his alma mater, Arvada West HS, where they have his old jersey on display. The kid was huge, and more than a little fat. He really had to transform his body to become the great pro that he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 14, 2012 -> 03:34 PM) I'm going to agree with Marty here, insomuch as we're comparing two guys whose raw talent has never been questioned, but whose results have not always matched. And EJax hasn't exactly had a squeaky clean rep, with rumors of "smokiness", and the endless teamhopping that might have something to do with that. (Not that I would ever hold that against the man) And, well, I'll probably start a thread soon, but hasn't Coop proven to be worth every penny this year, and then some? Who else could steer this ship of toddlers so well? Answer: Rudy Jaramillo. Dave Duncan? Leo Mazzone (I know, someone will mention that he failed in BAL, although the Orioles years later are still having trouble with their Big 4 young pitchers in Tillman, Arrieta, Britton and Matusz). The White Sox should sign any available pitcher in the world with the last name of CHEN with how Bruce befuddles us and how Taiwan's Chen has been shutting down the TIGGERS. Edited July 14, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 14, 2012 -> 04:49 PM) I don't think we "need" Huston Street and Volquez to compete, but they might be useful. I wouldn't give up too much for them and almost certainly nothing on the current roster. I would be absolutely shocked if we went for a big fish at this point, we really don't have the guns to do it if we plan on keeping our offense potent. As far as Halladay goes, I think he has a torn labrum. Wouldn't shock me if we don't hear much from him again, but we'll see. I can't see much good coming from splitting 30 starts between Quintana, Humber, and Axelrod even if Sale, Peavy, and Floyd perform as hoped. I believe KW understands this and will act with a sense of urgency to upgrade the rotation. There's just no other choice at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jul 14, 2012 -> 03:54 PM) They say he strained the same back muscle that Peavy tore. He is on the shelf for the foreseeable future Yeah, I've heard this -- the mysterious loss of velocity, inability to recover in between outings, non-response to rest reminds me of just about every torn labrum case I've heard of. This is actually why I was so afraid of the Danks business at first. The rub here is that many throwers have torn labrums and have no problems, so it isn't cut and dry if you see some fraying on an arthrogram. In my personal case, the radiologist said I had a torn RC and perfect labrum and the orthopedist saw something completely different (labrum tear). Sometimes some rehab type work alleviates the symptoms of a labrum tear and you'll never tarnish a pitcher's value with that label until you know rehab won't work. I suspect a similar story with Sergio Santos who has been DL'd with shoulder inflammation for 3 months and has a setback after every time he throws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 14, 2012 -> 04:31 PM) Yeah, I've heard this -- the mysterious loss of velocity, inability to recover in between outings, non-response to rest reminds me of just about every torn labrum case I've heard of. This is actually why I was so afraid of the Danks business at first. The rub here is that many throwers have torn labrums and have no problems, so it isn't cut and dry if you see some fraying on an arthrogram. In my personal case, the radiologist said I had a torn RC and perfect labrum and the orthopedist saw something completely different (labrum tear). Sometimes some rehab type work alleviates the symptoms of a labrum tear and you'll never tarnish a pitcher's value with that label until you know rehab won't work. I suspect a similar story with Sergio Santos who has been DL'd with shoulder inflammation for 3 months and has a setback after every time he throws. It is a bit ironic that Sirotka went down, then David Wells in 2011. Santos went down, Molina not too much later...what's the latest prognosis on Nestor? On the bright side, Zach Stewart lost 3-4 mph but turned into an essentially "free" player for us in Youkilis who already had 5 GW RBI's in his short time with the Sox. Mark Teahen should watch out for any sharp objects and avoid watching Final Destination. •White Sox GM Kenny Williams always thinks big and it would not be surprising to see him get in on pitcher such as Zack Greinke. The problem is that his farm system doesn't have much to offer and they don't want to give up pieces off the big league roster while contending. Ken Rosenthal, Foxsports.com Edited July 15, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggins Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 A guy like Kevin Millwood would allow the Sox to keep their top prospects and still get a guy who is going to be better than Axelrod going forward. Might be the best way to improve the rotation without opening a hole elsewhere. That's assuming Danks is done, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 QUOTE (daggins @ Jul 15, 2012 -> 09:46 AM) A guy like Kevin Millwood would allow the Sox to keep their top prospects and still get a guy who is going to be better than Axelrod going forward. Might be the best way to improve the rotation without opening a hole elsewhere. That's assuming Danks is done, of course. Maybe. I'd say this if Danks were returning though. Zambrano is a guy you have to figure being on the market if the Marlins don't go on a run soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 15, 2012 -> 10:54 AM) Maybe. I'd say this if Danks were returning though. Zambrano is a guy you have to figure being on the market if the Marlins don't go on a run soon. Why would a team take a chance on a Zambrano blowing up their clubhouse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justBLAZE Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 (edited) Heyman lists 10 teams who could pursue Hamels and Grainke. Lists Sox at 4. LINK. Edited July 15, 2012 by justBLAZE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 15, 2012 -> 10:56 AM) Why would a team take a chance on a Zambrano blowing up their clubhouse? Because he's not going to blow a clubhouse in 2 months before he hits free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez's Ghost Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 15, 2012 -> 03:27 PM) Because he's not going to blow a clubhouse in 2 months before he hits free agency. He can't control himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 No to Z, and I hope Shields isn't on the radar. Guy's throwing BP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted July 15, 2012 Share Posted July 15, 2012 QUOTE (whitesox901 @ Jul 13, 2012 -> 02:44 PM) I think Millwood and Wolf are realistic expectations. Wolf isn't much better than Dylan Axelrod. I wouldn't mind Millwood though. He'd fit in well in our park. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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