justBLAZE Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm surprised by a lot of you wanting to part ways with Tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 03:48 PM) Marty34 coming into 2013 when the Sox don't make the playoffs...because their offense goes into the "Tanks" when Juan Pierre puts up a .597 OPS replacing Viciedo. "KW should be fired for giving up Viciedo, Mitchell and Jones for Greinke. We didn't re-sign him and now this team's at least 3-4 years from being able to compete again. We won't ever draw 2,000,000 fans again, and customers at Applebee's in Lawrence will forget Ozzie or the White Sox even existed by 2015." It's you who is notorious for this kind of flip-flop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 08:58 PM) Okay, then who are we going to play in LF if we did trade him? Dan Johnson? Pierre? I can see Williams giving up Mitchell and Jones (if Crain is going to be healthy), but not Viciedo. And Shields' contract is pretty similar to Gavin Floyd's ($9.5 million for 2013) so it's not like we're getting anything resembling a cheap pitcher. Tampa Bay really can't afford to keep pitchers like Shields on their roster with their attendance issues anyway. Under no circumstances would I deal Viciedo for Shields. There have to be other options. Shields isn't a #1 guy in the true sense of it. Good/solid, but not great. I agree with you I wouldn't want the Sox to give up Viciedo, all I was saying is that connecting Viciedo to the Brewers makes no sense to me at all. I also happen to think people are overrating Mitchell's trade value on here though. I don't think Mitchell and Jones gets you Dempster, to be honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 04:02 PM) I agree with you I wouldn't want the Sox to give up Viciedo, all I was saying is that connecting Viciedo to the Brewers makes no sense to me at all. I also happen to think people are overrating Mitchell's trade value on here though. I don't think Mitchell and Jones gets you Dempster, to be honest. Without draft pick compensation, that SHOULD be enough. If necessary, throw in Trayce Thompson, Rienzo, Petricka, Johnson, Olacio, Leesman, etc. Would like to hold on to both Santiago and Castro and see what they evolve into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Shields' recent performances against us and other teams give me the willies. But for the right price, I guess I could be talked into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnCangelosi Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I'm also surprised at all of the people willing to deal Dayan. We're talking about a 22-23 yr old kid here who may hit 30 HR's this year. It's not like our system is overflowing with guys like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Since I don't think we have the pieces for Greinke, I'd be happy if KW is just trying to drive the price up on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 03:06 PM) Would like to hold on to both Santiago and Castro and see what they evolve into. One of my few minor beefs with this mostly pleasant season is how we've handled Hector. His role in the pen seems to be the least defined, and we really haven't learned anything, other than that he's susceptible to the long ball. If he's going to be used so sparingly (and the 14 inning affair seemed to show a lowness on the current pecking order), why not give the starter conversion a shot? Maybe they will if/when Leyson is deemed a keeper? Here's hoping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 04:15 PM) I'm also surprised at all of the people willing to deal Dayan. We're talking about a 22-23 yr old kid here who may hit 30 HR's this year. It's not like our system is overflowing with guys like this. Although I agree with your point, flags fly forever. Whatever window the White Sox have left, in my opinion, it won't last long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 04:23 PM) Although I agree with your point, flags fly forever. Whatever window the White Sox have left, in my opinion, it won't last long. I really hate that window statement, people have seemingly been saying it about the White Sox, Bears, and Bhawks for the past 5 seasons. Teams change there is no such thing as a window unless you are talking about the Celtics when the 3 main stars were all past their prime to begin with and even they put up a fight injured and all vs the Heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 03:54 PM) I think Shields makes more sense than Greinke, and that Tampa might have more use for a corner outfielder like Viciedo. The Brewers have absolutely no need for Tank. QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 03:55 PM) I want nothing to do with Greinke (for the price it will take). His struggles on the road in the NL the last two years raise some red flags to me. These. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 03:15 PM) I'm also surprised at all of the people willing to deal Dayan. We're talking about a 22-23 yr old kid here who may hit 30 HR's this year. It's not like our system is overflowing with guys like this. Nobody's system is overflowing with guys like this. He may be a 40 HR guy as soon as next season. He has uncommon power, and an approach that allows for adjustment - he's not dumb. Mark Trumbo's 2011 stats (1st full season at age 25) look remarkably similar to DV's this year. How's that working out now? Much like our guy: power, uncommon. This idea that what a guy IS is all he'll ever be seems to go hand-in-hand with the general impatience of an internet community. Improvement is almost never as quick as we want it to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 04:45 PM) Nobody's system is overflowing with guys like this. He may be a 40 HR guy as soon as next season. He has uncommon power, and an approach that allows for adjustment - he's not dumb. Mark Trumbo's 2011 stats (1st full season at age 25) look remarkably similar to DV's this year. How's that working out now? Much like our guy: power, uncommon. This idea that what a guy IS is all he'll ever be seems to go hand-in-hand with the general impatience of an internet community. Improvement is almost never as quick as we want it to be. Say he hits 40 home runs next year what does that get you? He is not a prospect that put in front of a chance to win this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffro2525 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Grienke has already been scratched from his Wednesday start vs. St. Louis. Something is going down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (GoodAsGould @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 04:34 PM) I really hate that window statement, people have seemingly been saying it about the White Sox, Bears, and Bhawks for the past 5 seasons. Teams change there is no such thing as a window unless you are talking about the Celtics when the 3 main stars were all past their prime to begin with and even they put up a fight injured and all vs the Heat. When the Tigers get a full year of Cabrera/Fielder/VMart this division is about sealed up. Ditto when Kansas City finds some pitching. Their lineup is already very good. It's only a matter of time before Hosmer wins an MVP. Face it, it's highly unlikely the White Sox are going to get good years out of Konerko, Dunn, and Rios AND have Peavy and Sale healthy. Everything is going right for this year (health issues aside) and they need to capitalize right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 03:58 PM) Say he hits 40 home runs next year what does that get you? He is not a prospect that put in front of a chance to win this year. Four more very inexpensive years of an absolute stud, and a foundation for sustained excellence. BTW, we HAVE a chance to win this year. Of course another stud pitcher would increase that chance, but would guarantee nothing. Edited July 16, 2012 by Stan Bahnsen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Did Chicago Tribune Live mentioned that the Sox are after Cliff Lee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 04:03 PM) When the Tigers get a full year of Cabrera/Fielder/VMart this division is about sealed up. Ditto when Kansas City finds some pitching. Their lineup is already very good. It's only a matter of time before Hosmer wins an MVP. Face it, it's highly unlikely the White Sox are going to get good years out of Konerko, Dunn, and Rios AND have Peavy and Sale healthy. Everything is going right for this year (health issues aside) and they need to capitalize right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 05:09 PM) Four more very inexpensive years of an absolute stud, and a foundation for sustained excellence. BTW, we HAVE a chance to win this year. Of course another stud pitcher would increase that chance, but would guarantee nothing. Yeah, I didn't understand that statement either. A young guy under control for several more years that can hit 40 HRs a year...and that doesn't get you anything? The Sox are in first place with that guy in left field. Sure, he struggles against righties, but he needs this year to develop. I am not in favor of banching the guy 50% of the time so we can have JUAN PIERRE take his place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 05:09 PM) Four more very inexpensive years of an absolute stud, and a foundation for sustained excellence. BTW, we HAVE a chance to win this year. Of course another stud pitcher would increase that chance, but would guarantee nothing. Greinke does not guarantee a championship, by the same token Viciedo isn't guaranteed to hit 40 homers next year either. LF'ers are found anyway. If the Sox end up keeping Mitchell and slot him in center with De Aza moving to left over the next 2-3 years how much worse are they really than they would be if they kept Viciedo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 05:19 PM) Yeah, I didn't understand that statement either. A young guy under control for several more years that can hit 40 HRs a year...and that doesn't get you anything? The Sox are in first place with that guy in left field. Sure, he struggles against righties, but he needs this year to develop. I am not in favor of banching the guy 50% of the time so we can have JUAN PIERRE take his place. No way do I trade Tank for half of a season, but 2.5 seasons of cost controlled Shields is pretty damn attractive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigruss Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 05:19 PM) Greinke does not guarantee a championship, by the same token Viciedo isn't guaranteed to hit 40 homers next year either. LF'ers are found anyway. If the Sox end up keeping Mitchell and slot him in center with De Aza moving to left over the next 2-3 years how much worse are they really than they would be if they kept Viciedo. At this point, Mitchell shouldn't be counted on. That said, I feel like finding a decent/mediocre LF won't be that hard, either through FA or trade, and won't cost nearly as much as a top of the line starter with 2.5 years on their deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 05:19 PM) Yeah, I didn't understand that statement either. A young guy under control for several more years that can hit 40 HRs a year...and that doesn't get you anything? The Sox are in first place with that guy in left field. Sure, he struggles against righties, but he needs this year to develop. I am not in favor of banching the guy 50% of the time so we can have JUAN PIERRE take his place. You'd put developing a good, not great LF'er over winning in August and September? I could not disagree with your approach more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 04:19 PM) Greinke does not guarantee a championship, by the same token Viciedo isn't guaranteed to hit 40 homers next year either. LF'ers are found anyway. If the Sox end up keeping Mitchell and slot him in center with De Aza moving to left over the next 2-3 years how much worse are they really than they would be if they kept Viciedo. Bad one's, yes. Considering that Dunn, Konerko and Rios will either be gone or declining at that juncture, we will clearly need his power bat. Or we could just win with Ozzieball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILMOU Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 04:23 PM) You'd put developing a good, not great LF'er over winning in August and September? I could not disagree with your approach more. Because clearly, he's keeping us from winning now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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