Dick Allen Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:14 PM) Viciedo makes too many outs against RH'ers. If he continues to do so, Pierre's .385 obp is an excellent way to upgrade a weakness cheaply. Juan Pierre makes a ton of outs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:04 PM) This is the dumbest idea I've heard. Pierre as a 2 hitter. Your what hurts? In the American League? Those numbers that he's putting up won't translate at all for the Sox. Two, we need power at home in July/Aug/September. We already have a 1 hole hitter. Why do we need any insurance for Viciedo? I'm more concerned with needing insurance for DeAza at this point if he wears down in the 2nd half. No Thank You on Pierre. One of my biggest joys watching the Sox this year is the sheer fact that Juan Pierre is no longer on the baseball team. He is a terrible baseball player and an example of why sometimes stats can be deceiving. Viciedo's bat needs to stay in the lineup and Dayan is even a better OF than Pierre is. I can't even believe that Pierre was suggested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Its pretty rare a pitcher has his career year when he's 35. If Dempster pitches 75 innings the rest of the way, if he has a 4.32 ERA, he will equal his career best ERA. I expect a big dropoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:17 PM) Juan Pierre makes a ton of outs. Not nearly as many as Viciedo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:14 PM) Viciedo makes too many outs against RH'ers. If he continues to do so, Pierre's .385 obp is an excellent way to upgrade a weakness cheaply. .385 is his slugging %. His career high OBP is .378, he is at .354 this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:21 PM) Not nearly as many as Viciedo. This year's LF is better than last year's LF. By far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 12:14 PM) Viciedo makes too many outs against RH'ers. If he continues to do so, Pierre's .385 obp is an excellent way to upgrade a weakness cheaply. And what was his OBP for the White Sox when we really needed him in the first half of 2010 and 2011? You can't just throw out a number for the NL, when he's had limited appearances, and argue that's what he will do for us. You can take the same theory from his time the final year in LA where he had a really good spurt for 2 months and everyone was expecting that would carry over and it simply didn't. Paul Konerko's also making a lot of outs the last month, are we going to bench him? Why not benching DeAza, Dunn and AJ against LHP? They make a lot of outs in those situations, too. Or sending Alexei Ramirez packing, because he was clearly done 2 months ago and should have been traded at his lowest possible value. Ooops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 12:24 PM) This year's LF is better than last year's LF. By far. And he's been better than advertised defensively. At least better than Quentin and Magglio IMO if you factor in his arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:21 PM) Not nearly as many as Viciedo. they have played in almost the same amount of games, viciedo: 15hr,43rbi, pierre:1hr,18rbi. who cares if pierre gets some meaningless hits, i rather have the production.viciedo>>>>pierre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 12:21 PM) Not nearly as many as Viciedo. How many outs did Juan Pierre make last year? Wasn't it the most in the AL or majors? C'mon, you can do better. Don't hate Cuba! PS: How many AL Central championships did we win with Juan? How many closers did he give nervous breakdowns with his OF play? Edited July 16, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:21 PM) Not nearly as many as Viciedo. Marty the power makes up for that though. Pierre's are empty outs. Neither player walks. Viciedo's power makes him much more valuable. Viciedo is going to hit 25-30 homers in his rookie season as the 5th-6th offensive option as a 23 year old. I wish Viciedo was more selective but comparing the two is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:20 PM) No Thank You on Pierre. One of my biggest joys watching the Sox this year is the sheer fact that Juan Pierre is no longer on the baseball team. He is a terrible baseball player and an example of why sometimes stats can be deceiving. Viciedo's bat needs to stay in the lineup and Dayan is even a better OF than Pierre is. I can't even believe that Pierre was suggested. Like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) And he's shown signs recently of... 1) Taking more walks 2) Cutting down his swing a bit and showing a willingness to take the ball to RF....the triple and then he served one into RF yesterday, ala Paulie. And he's had two game changing 3 run homers, against the Yankees and Royals, that led directly to our winning those two games. Edited July 16, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:27 PM) Marty the power makes up for that though. Pierre's are empty outs. Neither player walks. Viciedo's power makes him much more valuable. Viciedo is going to hit 25-30 homers in his rookie season as the 5th-6th offensive option as a 23 year old. I wish Viciedo was more selective but comparing the two is wrong. I don't think the power makes up for the 100+ point difference in obp between the two v. rh'ers. a top 5 of DeAza, Pierre, Youk, Dunn, and Konerko is some serious on base potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:30 PM) And he's shown signs recently of... 1) Taking more walks 2) Cutting down his swing a bit and showing a willingness to take the ball to RF....the triple and then he served one into RF yesterday, ala Paulie. And he's had two game changing 3 run homers, against the Yankees and Royals, that led directly to our winning those two games. Every one of his hits gets celebrated like someone on here won the lotto. Edited July 16, 2012 by Marty34 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 11:17 AM) Juan Pierre makes a ton of outs. But he hit so many key 3-run homers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox_Sonix Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 02:14 PM) Viciedo makes too many outs against RH'ers. If he continues to do so, Pierre's .385 obp is an excellent way to upgrade a weakness cheaply. I love the irony in you using something like that and assuming he's going to maintain that playing every day the rest of the year. Not to mention that you are advocating sitting Viciedo in favor of Pierre, period. That alone is LOL-worthy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Well, this thread has morphed into another discussion (which happens often, and that's okay). But the disturbing part is that the discussion is about bringing back Pierre. Really? And the reasoning is that Pierre has a higher OBP against right handers. Okay, so let's platoon every position. Dunn sits against lefties, Rios sits against righties, Beckham sits against... Viciedo's power and ability to change a game with one swing makes up for the difference in BA and OBP. Besides, this is his first full year in the majors, and we've already seen two people on the board bound and determined to trade and/or sit him. As far as I'm concerned, Viciedo is doing fine. His patience is getting better, his defense has been surprisingly decent, and he's got a ton of power. Let the guy develop for god's sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:40 PM) I love the irony in you using something like that and assuming he's going to maintain that playing every day the rest of the year. Not to mention that you are advocating sitting Viciedo in favor of Pierre, period. That alone is LOL-worthy Didn't say play him every day. I guess you're ok with the .278 obp against righties and that .411 slg. Why get a guy who gets on base when you have all that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:37 PM) Every one of his hits gets celebrated like someone on here won the lotto. He's batting .261 with 15 HRs and 43 RBIs. His OBP has been improving and now sits at .302. There's nothing wrong with that type of production, especially when there are signs of improvement. The only hits of his that have been "celebrated" on here have been those game-changing HRs. And those were celebration-worthy hits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melissa1334 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 no juan pierre! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:46 PM) Didn't say play him every day. I guess you're ok with the .278 obp against righties and that .411 slg. Why get a guy who gets on base when you have all that? By all means, not only should we have All-Stars at every position, we should really be 6 1/2 or 7 1/2 up on the Tigers if KW would have kept Buehrle instead of Danks and were it not for our inexperienced bullpen and starting out the season with Santiago and sticking Sale in there, too. BOO KW!!! You suck. And you should be fired anyway for trading Santos for Molina and low attendance. And Brent Morel hasn't developed. Etc. Essentially, Viciedo at age 23 is about 20-30 points lower than the average OPS for a major league LF (but when you take into consideration all at-bats, still better than average). So we should play Dan Johnson in his place. Or Juan Pierre. Or Conor Jackson. Maybe we should pick on Gordon Beckham for striking out so much? Edited July 16, 2012 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty34 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:42 PM) Well, this thread has morphed into another discussion (which happens often, and that's okay). But the disturbing part is that the discussion is about bringing back Pierre. Really? And the reasoning is that Pierre has a higher OBP against right handers. Okay, so let's platoon every position. Dunn sits against lefties, Rios sits against righties, Beckham sits against... Viciedo's power and ability to change a game with one swing makes up for the difference in BA and OBP. Besides, this is his first full year in the majors, and we've already seen two people on the board bound and determined to trade and/or sit him. As far as I'm concerned, Viciedo is doing fine. His patience is getting better, his defense has been surprisingly decent, and he's got a ton of power. Let the guy develop for god's sake. I don't care if it's his first year or fifth year. I also could not care less about his development the rest of this year. A 100+ difference in obp that could be had cheaply is an upgrade worth considering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jul 16, 2012 -> 01:51 PM) I don't care if it's his first year or fifth year. I also could not care less about his development the rest of this year. A 100+ difference in obp that could be had cheaply is an upgrade worth considering. Why not Jordan Danks? He was hitting over .400 recently. That would be even cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOXOBAMA Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) http://dplbaseball.com/featured-post/luis-...cago-white-sox/ Looks like he is going be a great player.. Sorry wrong thread. Edited July 16, 2012 by SOXOBAMA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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