cwsox Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 correct answer posted tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted August 16, 2003 Share Posted August 16, 2003 Cool quiz, CW -- just when I was really starting to miss the old Wilbur Archana, too. I'm pretty sure JM has a better lifetime record than most of that field. Off the top of my head I'll state that Jimmie Dykes has to be worse than JM -- at 20 seasons managing with no championship he is second justbehind Gene Mauch (26). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I hope it's all of those. Cause a lot of those had s***ty teams and Manuel has good Teams and Makes them s***ty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sat46 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 None of the Managers you listed has a better won loss pct. than Jerry Manuel (.512). Eddie Stanky was close (.511). All of these Managers did better: Clark Griffith (.581) Clarance Rowland (.578) Fielder Jones (.576) Marty Marrion (.565) Al Lopez (.562) Gene Lamont (.551) Paul Richards (.529) Bob Lemon (.525) Eddie Collins (.521) Kid Gleason (.519) Jeff Toborg (.515) Billy Sullivan is tied (.512). PS: (You meant Blackburne.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 I didn't intend that any of the choices have a better percentage - that was my point, that JM has fared well for us with wins and winning %. Posters may and will disagree with some his moves, but the total attacks upon him as being incompetent and stupid are historically and intellectually invalid - the man may have to go or not, but deserves respect for being one of the top managers we have ever had in terms of total wins and winning percentage, and winning a division championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 failed well Dont you mean "fared well"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 Tony LaRussa [ 2 ] [28.57%] .504 Russ Blackburn [ 0 ] [0.00%] .427 Terry Bevington [ 1 ] [14.29%] .509 Eddie Stankey [ 0 ] [0.00%] .511 Chuck Tanner [ 0 ] [0.00%] .492 Ed Walsh [ 0 ] [0.00%] .333 Jim Fregosi [ 1 ] [14.29%] ,461 Ted Lyons [ 1 ] [14.29%] .430 Lew Fonseca [ 1 ] [14.29%] .377 Jimmy Dykes [ 1 ] [14.29%] .489 JM is at, as sat noted, .512 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 Dont you mean "fared well"? what a typo!!!! yes, I meant fared well! thanks for catching it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Ok cwsox would you agree that this team has underachieved for 3 years in a row, Manuel is a terrible manager and this is a pointless thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danman31 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Ok cwsox would you agree that this team has underachieved for 3 years in a row, Manuel is a terrible manager and this is a pointless thread. Yeah, these polls are ridiculous. He's had better talent than a .512 win %. Right now JM doesn't deserve polls like these. What has he done for me lately..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 Ok cwsox would you agree that this team has underachieved for 3 years in a row, Manuel is a terrible manager and this is a pointless thread. no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 I didn't intend that any of the choices have a better percentage - that was my point, that JM has fared well for us with wins and winning %. Posters may and will disagree with some his moves, but the total attacks upon him as being incompetent and stupid are historically and intellectually invalid - the man may have to go or not, but deserves respect for being one of the top managers we have ever had in terms of total wins and winning percentage, and winning a division championship. Actually thank you for pointing out we have never had a great manager. Of that group who's HoF material as a manager? Probably Larussa since he reads as many books as the press that follows the team and votes for the Hall. Do you think things would have been better this year if the Dusty had moved to the south side instead of the north? I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 Actually thank you for pointing out we have never had a great manager. Of that group who's HoF material as a manager? Probably Larussa since he reads as many books as the press that follows the team and votes for the Hall. Do you think things would have been better this year if the Dusty had moved to the south side instead of the north? I do. I don't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 Actually thank you for pointing out we have never had a great manager. Of that group who's HoF material as a manager? Probably Larussa since he reads as many books as the press that follows the team and votes for the Hall. Do you think things would have been better this year if the Dusty had moved to the south side instead of the north? I do. I don't ANd I can respect you for that opinion. I look at the team we are chasing and if Pena isn't their MVP (Most Valuable Person) I don't know who is. Even if JM is a good manager he is not a good fit for this club. IMHO we need a fiery touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sat46 Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 what a typo!!!! yes, I meant fared well! thanks for catching it! Why didn't you thank me for the correct spelling of Blackbune? Guess I'm just not important enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 no A tad over .500 is not that great, f*** JM he sucks, Sox win in spite of his dumbass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CubKilla Posted August 17, 2003 Share Posted August 17, 2003 the man deserves respect for being one of the top managers we have ever had in terms of total wins and winning percentage, and winning a division championship. Bulls***. Most of the time, like from 07/18-08/10..... during which time the White Sox only lost one series, the White Sox were winning games despite Manuel. And the few games that the White Sox lost..... 07/26 comes to mind against Tampa Bay when JM, in his wisdom , allowed an already shelled Rick White-Flag to return to the game after the White Sox started a possible comeback a half-inning before and White-Flag stomped any realistic hope of a White Sox comeback from that point on..... were lost due to JM's utter impotency as White Sox manager. In the Tampa Bay case, total and utter BP mismanagement. JM's never done that! And excuse me if I don't get fired up over 1 AL Central Division Championship over about 6 seasons in a mostly s*** ass division. And what does this poll say when you have to add names like Bevington to the list? You're really proving your point with that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 Bulls***. Most of the time, like from 07/18-08/10..... during which time the White Sox only lost one series, the White Sox were winning games despite Manuel. And the few games that the White Sox lost..... 07/26 comes to mind against Tampa Bay when JM, in his wisdom , allowed an already shelled Rick White-Flag to return to the game after the White Sox started a possible comeback a half-inning before and White-Flag stomped any realistic hope of a White Sox comeback from that point on..... were lost due to JM's utter impotency as White Sox manager. In the Tampa Bay case, total and utter BP mismanagement. JM's never done that! And excuse me if I don't get fired up over 1 AL Central Division Championship over about 6 seasons in a mostly s*** ass division. And what does this poll say when you have to add names like Bevington to the list? You're really proving your point with that one. CK, I could have used a lot of names other than Bevingingtons. I am not a diehard JM supporter byt so much of the criticism of him is, IMHO, shrill, not based on history, and is demagoguery. I say that even thoguh I value you as friend highly - your opinions on JM have been so visceral from th begnnning - as of others - that any valid points that are being made (if any) are lost in the din. Then to argue that when the team wins it is "despite manuel" but when it loses it is "because of Manuel" is, buddy, not very convincing, reminds of cubs fans arguing or 10 year olds trying to make a point. You can't say any good is not to his credit and any bad it is to his detriment. I have my frustrations with JM. My point is that he has done a job for us better than a lot of others. He may or may not need to at the end of the season. But that decision I trust will be made by cooler, more analyticial and informed heads that ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted August 17, 2003 Author Share Posted August 17, 2003 A tad over .500 is not that great, f*** JM he sucks, Sox win in spite of his dumbass. that fact that his average is better than any of those managers - and I could have doubled that list had the software allowed me - says what? If you studied the actual won-loss % of managers on or team and other teams, you might be surprized. JM has been more than successful at what he has done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 no You honestly don't think the sox have underachieved the last 3 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted August 18, 2003 Author Share Posted August 18, 2003 I honestly do not. 2001 was a year of many injures and yet JM held the team together. 2002 we slumped and JM ralied them magnificantly so we could be in better shape in 2003. 2003 is not over with so I haven't drawn any conclusions yet. I am none too pleased with a 1-5 road trip. I am also none too pleased with the performances of Koch, Colon, PK, Jose, a whole team that is hitting 25-100 points lower than they should, and, not that jacked about MB having struggled either. The players bear responsibility for what they do bat and ball in hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sat46 Posted August 18, 2003 Share Posted August 18, 2003 You honestly don't think the sox have underachieved the last 3 years? The truth is for a half a season in 2000 the White Sox were on fire. This team hasn't done anything except that, since the strike hit them in 1994. Look at 1995, 1996, 1997,1998, 1999, 2001, 2002 seasons, and this 63-61 record we have now in 2003.......do you see a pattern there? The team stinks............. hello there, the team stinks!!!!!!!!!!! They haven't achieved anything, and Manuel ain't nothing but a mediocre manager at best. (That's being kind to him.) We only spend bottom feeder money on this team, what does anyone really expect the White Sox to do? What has this team done since 1917 to get excited about? Nothing!!!!!!!!!!! Welcome to the land of lost hopes, you're White Sox fans, so suffer for it, like you have been for so very long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 what a typo!!!! yes, I meant fared well! thanks for catching it! Youre welcome my friend. I saw "failed well" and thought well hell, thats an oxymoron if I ever saw him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted August 19, 2003 Share Posted August 19, 2003 I didn't intend that any of the choices have a better percentage - that was my point, that JM has fared well for us with wins and winning %. Posters may and will disagree with some his moves, but the total attacks upon him as being incompetent and stupid are historically and intellectually invalid - the man may have to go or not, but deserves respect for being one of the top managers we have ever had in terms of total wins and winning percentage, and winning a division championship. Take out 2000 and Mr. Manuel is Under .500 And hey a lot of those manager had really s***ty Teams. If only we could see what those managers could do with Gahndi's teams. Manuel Sucks, Plain and Simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwsox Posted August 19, 2003 Author Share Posted August 19, 2003 Take out 2000 and Mr. Manuel is Under .500 And hey a lot of those manager had really s***ty Teams. If only we could see what those managers could do with Gahndi's teams. Manuel Sucks, Plain and Simple take out any manager's best year and you throw off the stats - that is very unfair comment I suspect you are not old enough to have watched many of those teams that you say were so s***ty I am not putting Manuel in the HOF but he is no where near as bad as so many make him out to be, and he does not deserve the trashing that he gets nonstop the 2001 team was ravaged by injuries and he pulled that team back , that was great managing as it was in 2000 when you look at who the pitching staff was Manuel is ok, sometimes more than ok, Plain and Simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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