Reddy Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 11:09 AM) There you go, making everything about color again. Is there nothing you won't discriminate against?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 11:03 AM) But it's a legal contract. How do you have a legal contract without the resources of the state to enforce it. It's specifically a state license and document right now, kinda like a corporation. You can have the state enforce all sorts of non-state contracts, though, like the loan you took out for your house. Anyway, I wouldn't agree with removing marriage from government because I think it serves a useful legal function in that regard, but I do agree that it needs to be either fully and freely available to all or not a part of government at all. The current situation is a violation of peoples' rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 12:09 PM) It's specifically a state license and document right now, kinda like a corporation. You can have the state enforce all sorts of non-state contracts, though, like the loan you took out for your house. Anyway, I wouldn't agree with removing marriage from government because I think it serves a useful legal function in that regard, but I do agree that it needs to be either fully and freely available to all or not a part of government at all. The current situation is a violation of peoples' rights. Even basic things in society wind up involving marriage. We're not just talking about tax returns or social security benefits, we're talking about things like hospital visitation rights, right to speak on the other's behalf, right to not testify against your spouse in court, and on and on. The idea that the government can just "Get out of the business of recognizing marriage" is foolhardy. You're not going to take away the right to avoid testifying against your spouse from everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Like I said, I don't actually agree with that 'solution' because it creates numerous problems. But it does solve the denial of equal rights problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 11:13 AM) Even basic things in society wind up involving marriage. We're not just talking about tax returns or social security benefits, we're talking about things like hospital visitation rights, right to speak on the other's behalf, right to not testify against your spouse in court, and on and on. The idea that the government can just "Get out of the business of recognizing marriage" is foolhardy. You're not going to take away the right to avoid testifying against your spouse from everyone. The visitation/hospital issue is f***ed up to begin with. When my wife and I had our kid a few weeks ago I didn't even have the same rights as she did. The baby was considered hers in everything that we did there, so much so that when my wife wanted to walk around the halls, she was instructed to take the baby or the nurses had to take him to the nursery. I wasn't allowed to stay in the room with him by myself. I was able to watch him be born, I had a tag on my hand that said I was the father, but I couldn't be alone with my own son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 This whole issue opens up a new can of worms. What about marrying your sibling or cousin? What about having multiple wives/husbands? If government gets out of the marriage game completely, what's the limit? Because you know someone out there will test it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 11:19 AM) The visitation/hospital issue is f***ed up to begin with. When my wife and I had our kid a few weeks ago I didn't even have the same rights as she did. The baby was considered hers in everything that we did there, so much so that when my wife wanted to walk around the halls, she was instructed to take the baby or the nurses had to take him to the nursery. I wasn't allowed to stay in the room with him by myself. I was able to watch him be born, I had a tag on my hand that said I was the father, but I couldn't be alone with my own son. Now imagine you were your wife's civil-unioned partner instead. You may not have even been let into the delivery room. ps congrats! Edited July 30, 2012 by StrangeSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 11:22 AM) Now imagine you were your wife's civil-unioned partner instead. You may not have even been let into the delivery room. ps congrats! Sure, and I agree it's a BS policy. But at least I have a better claim. I half made the kid! And thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Well there's an answer to why people shouldn't just accept civil unions. They're not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjshoe04 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 07:55 AM) Then either you don't know anyone who is gay or you're not paying attention. One of probably 4 good friends is gay. I never see any type of discrimination against him. He's also not a stereotype so unless he's with his boyfriend it would be impossible to know. I'm only in my 20's so I don't know any gay couples that would be considered married. I've never known anyone that was fired for being gay or turned away from living somewhere. That's ridiculous if it's truly happening. I am completely on the side of having the government just give all couples equal civil unions and if you want the title of marriage from a church you can go get married in a church. Edited July 30, 2012 by kjshoe04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 11:28 AM) One of probably 4 good friends is gay. I never see any type of discrimination against him. He's also not a stereotype so unless he's with his boyfriend it would be impossible to know. I'm only in my 20's so I don't know any gay couples that would be considered married. I've never known anyone that was fired for being gay or turned away from living somewhere. That's ridiculous if it's truly happening. I am completely on the side of having the government just give all couples equal civil unions and if you want the title of marriage from a church you can go get married in a church. i have dozens of gay friends, and most, if not all, have experienced really hateful instances of being ridiculed or discriminated against. I personally know guys who have been together for over 10 years, but don't get any benefits. I've gotten near to blows with drunk bums on the subway for berating gay couples. It's painful how much gays in this country have to put up with. Why do you think kids are killing themselves at such an alarming rate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjshoe04 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 11:40 AM) i have dozens of gay friends, and most, if not all, have experienced really hateful instances of being ridiculed or discriminated against. I personally know guys who have been together for over 10 years, but don't get any benefits. I've gotten near to blows with drunk bums on the subway for berating gay couples. It's painful how much gays in this country have to put up with. Why do you think kids are killing themselves at such an alarming rate? High school is bad for everyone. It's worse for gay kids. That's probably not going to change anytime soon. It's also bad to be fat, ugly, short, poor, black, hispanic. I also associate with dozens of gay people that I like but don't really consider more than about 5-7 people true "friends." I'm really sorry that you're friends have been treated that way and I fully support them in their fight. I just think that it's really not as bad as civil rights were for black people. I'm not saying it's not horrible but that s*** was super violent and I think the hate was more on the surface. I wasn't there so I guess I wouldn't know. We're moving in the right direction and I hope it continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2HH Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 11:52 AM) High school is bad for everyone. It's worse for gay kids. That's probably not going to change anytime soon. It's also bad to be fat, ugly, short, poor, black, hispanic. I also associate with dozens of gay people that I like but don't really consider more than about 5-7 people true "friends." I'm really sorry that you're friends have been treated that way and I fully support them in their fight. I just think that it's really not as bad as civil rights were for black people. I'm not saying it's not horrible but that s*** was super violent and I think the hate was more on the surface. I wasn't there so I guess I wouldn't know. We're moving in the right direction and I hope it continues. Too bad most kids these days are fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjshoe04 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (Y2HH @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 11:58 AM) Too bad most kids these days are fat. They still have to hear about it every day from the good looking kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 12:03 PM) They still have to hear about it every day from the good looking kids. again... big difference between being fat (something you can control) and being gay (something you can't). It means kids think there's inherently something WRONG with being themselves. And that's so f***ed up. As for not being as bad as civil rights... maybe not... but ask a gay person their thoughts, and you might understand why it's still a very, very important issue. Treating ANYONE as less than equal is not ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 12:06 PM) again... big difference between being fat (something you can control) and being gay (something you can't). It means kids think there's inherently something WRONG with being themselves. And that's so f***ed up. As for not being as bad as civil rights... maybe not... but ask a gay person their thoughts, and you might understand why it's still a very, very important issue. Treating ANYONE as less than equal is not ok. I think a lot of fat people would argue it's not really by choice. Genes and parents are a big factor there. The extreme 400 lb person? Sure, that's a choice. But the 20-25 lb overweight kid? Eh, that's not pure choice there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 12:19 PM) I think a lot of fat people would argue it's not really by choice. Genes and parents are a big factor there. The extreme 400 lb person? Sure, that's a choice. But the 20-25 lb overweight kid? Eh, that's not pure choice there. true, the parents are probably at fault. but if he's sick of being fat there are things he can do to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jul 29, 2012 -> 08:44 PM) Fine, let's take a poll, and see if I'm off base: All southerners posting in this thread, do you support gay marriage? I do. (No pun intended) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 29, 2012 -> 09:23 PM) One doesn't choose to be a southerner either! Wait... I was born this way. Balta, I think you qualify as a stinkin' carpet bagger. FYI, I'm very liberal as compared to your typical southerner. Edited July 30, 2012 by JPN366 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPN366 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Coming soon to FlapShip, my take on guilt free alternatives to Chick-fil-A. It's supposed to be funny and not political. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (JPN366 @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 12:27 PM) I was born this way. Balta, I think you qualify as a stinkin' carpet bagger. FYI, I'm very liberal as compared to your typical southerner. WTF man? What do you mean by typical southerner? You're stereotyping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (Reddy @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 09:40 AM) i have dozens of gay friends, and most, if not all, have experienced really hateful instances of being ridiculed or discriminated against. I personally know guys who have been together for over 10 years, but don't get any benefits. I've gotten near to blows with drunk bums on the subway for berating gay couples. It's painful how much gays in this country have to put up with. Why do you think kids are killing themselves at such an alarming rate? I guarantee it happens. I've gotten comments twice for being married to a "non-white" (both times were in Chicago of all places too). So if I'm getting comments for something that has been going on a lot longer, you better believe it happens quite a bit for something that as a whole is far less accepted in society. I think its unfair. To be honest, I think there are 2 debates. One is the religious debate regarding marriage. The other is the equality debate. I can see someone making the religious argument and understand there view (even if I disagree with it). However, I can't understand how you can't create a civil union which provides a gay couple the same exact rights as a married couple. Plus, to be frank, the religious side of the argument, shouldn't be up to the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 01:55 PM) I guarantee it happens. I've gotten comments twice for being married to a "non-white" (both times were in Chicago of all places too). So if I'm getting comments for something that has been going on a lot longer, you better believe it happens quite a bit for something that as a whole is far less accepted in society. I think its unfair. To be honest, I think there are 2 debates. One is the religious debate regarding marriage. The other is the equality debate. I can see someone making the religious argument and understand there view (even if I disagree with it). However, I can't understand how you can't create a civil union which provides a gay couple the same exact rights as a married couple. Plus, to be frank, the religious side of the argument, shouldn't be up to the government. Just out of curiousity, how would you feel if your marriage was described as a "Civil Union" and you couldn't call it a marriage because churches objected to the union and wanted to make sure you were made to know it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 The answer is clearly to just not let anyone get married... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2012 -> 01:00 PM) Just out of curiousity, how would you feel if your marriage was described as a "Civil Union" and you couldn't call it a marriage because churches objected to the union and wanted to make sure you were made to know it? just out of curiosity, how would you feel if someone told you what your religion could and couldn't recognize? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts