Chick-Fil-A and Homosexuality

[greg775]

Sort of like every single argument you've ever made on this site.

I disagree. I may take the other position many times, but I feel my arguments are passionate and backed up with facts many times.

 

That perception has been repeated so much because there are so many stories of child-rape cover-ups around the world. The fault for that lies squarely with the rapists and their abettors in the church's hierarchy, not with news organizations covering a worldwide scandal in one of the most prominent religions in the world.

I don't blame the media, but I do blame them for not going out of their way to balance this out a bit. The word "priest" shouldn't have turned into a synonym for devil because of the evil scandal. Just as coach should not now be synonym for devil because of Sandusky/Paterno and all the youth coaches who abuse.

[Soxbadger]

No, it's the whole story and slanted coverage as a whole. Not all priests are bad, yet the perception has been repeated so much that now you look up priest in the dictionary and the word pedophile appears so to speak. It's just not so. And I'm all for the bastard bishops who covered it up getting thrown in jail. I hate all molesters and all people who cover up molestation. Crimes against kids should be punishable by the death penalty or life in solitary! But it's not all priests. And the occupation has been ruined.

 

I work in a profession that is pretty disliked, yet every year thousands more people want that job.

 

Why?

 

Money, power, etc.

 

Priest just isnt as glamorous these days. Priest was a good job for a 2nd son, who you had no money to marry away. Since society has evolved passed that, there have been decreasingly less priests.

 

2 of my close friends fathers were going to be Priests, both quit seminary school because of girls and money.

 

People are people.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Balta1701]

No, it's the whole story and slanted coverage as a whole. Not all priests are bad, yet the perception has been repeated so much that now you look up priest in the dictionary and the word pedophile appears so to speak. It's just not so. And I'm all for the bastard bishops who covered it up getting thrown in jail. I hate all molesters and all people who cover up molestation. Crimes against kids should be punishable by the death penalty or life in solitary! But it's not all priests. And the occupation has been ruined.

Slanted coverage? Are you kidding me?

 

Yes, the media was too hard on the catholic church for covering up the systematic abuse of kids for decades across the entire world. GMAFB.

 

Do you think the media should have covered up the rape of children?

 

Because otherwise, no, the media was not too hard on the church. The Church has gotten off easy. Many, many more leaders of the church, going all the way up, should have gone to jail for what they did, shifting those priests around and covering up for them, and those people are still happily employed and have gone without punishment except in the eyes of God.

[CrimsonWeltall]

No, I've seen some jokes in movies and on TV where there's a feminine portrayal of gays or the old gay jokes. I'd think somebody could find one of these examples and immediately start a nationwide boycott of the theatres and the company that produced said movie or TV show.

 

People understand the difference between non-malicious comedy about stereotypes (even when offensive) and taking actions which actually harm a group.

 

If I made a dumb joke about women and kitchens and sammiches, you might think I was an ass.

If I told you I donate money to a group working to repeal women's suffrage, you'd think a lot worse.

 

No, it's the whole story and slanted coverage as a whole.

 

Can you give us some examples of what kinds of coverage you felt was slanted?

[Balta1701]

I don't blame the media, but I do blame them for not going out of their way to balance this out a bit. The word "priest" shouldn't have turned into a synonym for devil because of the evil scandal. Just as coach should not now be synonym for devil because of Sandusky/Paterno and all the youth coaches who abuse.

Do you really think it would help the catholic church to have the media interject statements reminding people how many priests didn't rape children?

 

Wouldn't the fact that they were doing that...remind people of how many priests raped children?

[greg775]

Priest just isnt as glamorous these days. 2 of my close friends fathers were going to be Priests, both quit seminary school because of girls and money.

People are people.

Why is it not glamorous? Society has rotted to the point that all that matters is money and power like you said. Which is fine, always been that way, but there used to be tolerance and respect for those who decided to eschew money and power and give their lives to God or work for free as a missionary. Now that is considered laughable, moronic. "You want to be a missionary?? What is wrong with you???? You want to be a priest?? My gawd, where did I go wrong. Priests are molesters!!!" I still consider both missionary and priest noble professions. More power to them for living lives of poverty. society says no.

 

Slanted coverage? Are you kidding me?

 

Yes, the media was too hard on the catholic church for covering up the systematic abuse of kids for decades across the entire world. GMAFB.

 

Do you think the media should have covered up the rape of children?

 

Because otherwise, no, the media was not too hard on the church. The Church has gotten off easy. Many, many more leaders of the church, going all the way up, should have gone to jail for what they did, shifting those priests around and covering up for them, and those people are still happily employed and have gone without punishment except in the eyes of God.

No. I said I'm glad it was covered and all those guilty of cover up and abuse should be sentenced to death or life in solitary confinement.

 

Do you really think it would help the catholic church to have the media interject statements reminding people how many priests didn't rape children?

 

Wouldn't the fact that they were doing that...remind people of how many priests raped children?

Yes I think that would have been good. But it was a pile on, making it seem to the world that priests are child molesters and that is what a priest does.

Edited August 2, 2012 by greg775

[Balta1701]

No. I said I'm glad it was covered and all those guilty of cover up and abuse should be sentenced to death or life.

Then why are you not piling on right now when the people who moved those priests around, going all the way up to places in the Vatican, are still in power? I know of only 1 case where the guy who did the coverup was charged with anything and convicted, and that just happened last month. He was convicted of one count of child endangerment and will spend a couple years in prison at most.

 

By your own standard, the media has not been tough enough on the Church, because the people who did the coverup are walking away and having their parishioners pay the fines! You asked for life imprisonment, I give you a couple years on a single count of child endangerment for one guy!

[greg775]

Then why are you not piling on right now when the people who moved those priests around, going all the way up to places in the Vatican, are still in power? I know of only 1 case where the guy who did the coverup was charged with anything and convicted, and that just happened last month. He was convicted of one count of child endangerment and will spend a couple years in prison at most.

 

By your own standard, the media has not been tough enough on the Church, because the people who did the coverup are walking away and having their parishioners pay the fines! You asked for life imprisonment, I give you a couple years on a single count of child endangerment for one guy!

 

Well it needs to continued to be covered then, because I want all molesters to rot. I want them dead by lethal injection and/or stuck in jail the rest of their lives where they will be abused as well. I guess I don't condone them being abused in jail but that is apparently what happens in prison so be it.

I just want it recognized and pointed out nationally over and over that as not all coaches are molesters (like Sandusky) and cover up artists (like Paterno). Coach is not suddenly going to be thought of in disdain, yet the priest profession is OVA. The only ones remaining in America are oldies. The future of the Catholic Church in America will be priests coming over from India and maybe parishes sharing such priests.

It saddens me.

 

[Kyyle23]

Well it needs to continued to be covered then, because I want all molesters to rot. I want them dead by lethal injection and/or stuck in jail the rest of their lives where they will be abused as well. I guess I don't condone them being abused in jail but that is apparently what happens in prison so be it.

I just want it recognized and pointed out nationally over and over that as not all coaches are molesters (like Sandusky) and cover up artists (like Paterno). Coach is not suddenly going to be thought of in disdain, yet the priest profession is OVA. The only ones remaining in America are oldies. The future of the Catholic Church in America will be priests coming over from India and maybe parishes sharing such priests.

It saddens me.

 

Such a terrible, terrible comparison. This wasnt one priest greg. This wasnt one act of coverup. Thousands. Thousands of lives shattered.

[Balta1701]

Well it needs to continued to be covered then, because I want all molesters to rot.

The sad thing is...it will not be covered much until there is another major bit of news...because it really is no longer news that the catholic church harbored and covered up for child molesters systematically for decades. It's actually true, it has happened, it has been covered, and most of the media have moved on. There was a brief bit a few years ago when the scandal broke in Ireland, and occasionally you'll see an in-depth look at some particular abuse case on 60 minutes, but that's it. It's not news any more that the catholic church was basically a criminal conspiracy.

[Quin]

Why is it not glamorous? Society has rotted to the point that all that matters is money and power like you said. Which is fine, always been that way, but there used to be tolerance and respect for those who decided to eschew money and power and give their lives to God or work for free as a missionary. Now that is considered laughable, moronic. "You want to be a missionary?? What is wrong with you???? You want to be a priest?? My gawd, where did I go wrong. Priests are molesters!!!" I still consider both missionary and priest noble professions. More power to them for living lives of poverty. society says no.

 

 

No. I said I'm glad it was covered and all those guilty of cover up and abuse should be sentenced to death or life in solitary confinement.

 

 

Yes I think that would have been good. But it was a pile on, making it seem to the world that priests are child molesters and that is what a priest does.

 

It's not glamorous because there is no need for a large amount of priests.

 

My generation is increasingly unreligious, because that's a viewpoint and way of life. There's a downturn in Priests because they live as very poor in a time where you NEED to have money for bills, housing, and living expenses.

 

So of course there's fewer priests when there are fewer people to preach too.

 

As for missionaries...it's like my very religious Baptist friend said. God said only he can judge, yet missionaries judge by deeming their religion is better and they must spread it. Yes, the work they do outside spreading religion is very admirable, but it's not their main cause of going.

 

I love one of my missionaries friends very dearly yet she tried to convert me saying God would cure my seizures. She's a Born Again who partied a bit too hard before being "reborn" so she thinks that would fix me. Yet all converting would do for me is ask that I give up my free will, opinions, and change my (in my opinion) very solid morals. I don't have any character issues that need religion to fix exactly.

[Soxbadger]

Why is it not glamorous? Society has rotted to the point that all that matters is money and power like you said. Which is fine, always been that way, but there used to be tolerance and respect for those who decided to eschew money and power and give their lives to God or work for free as a missionary. Now that is considered laughable, moronic. "You want to be a missionary?? What is wrong with you???? You want to be a priest?? My gawd, where did I go wrong. Priests are molesters!!!" I still consider both missionary and priest noble professions. More power to them for living lives of poverty. society says no.

 

Well missionaries and priests arent the same. But historically speaking Priest used to be a very powerful, influential and often wealthy member of the community. It is the reason why Nobles would have their 2nd/3rd sons become Priests, or why Kings would have their 2/3rds become Bishops/Pope.

 

People have always been about power and money, the establishment just did a really good job of convincing their flock that they werent about money and power.

 

If you believe in Jesus, you have to remember one of his biggest gripes was about the corruption of the Jewish priests.

 

So this isnt new, its been going on at least 5700 years (I think Jewish calendar is in the year 5700 something).

 

[greg775]

People understand the difference between non-malicious comedy about stereotypes (even when offensive) and taking actions which actually harm a group.

 

OK, what if the CEO of CFA said the same things said on a comedy show about gays? He'd be fried in the media. Why not movie producers and actors? Actors could refuse the part if they have to make gay jokes. There is no outrage because Hollywood is glamorous and everybody there is rich. That's what our society is about. No scorn for the rich in this instance.

[Soxbadger]

OK, what if the CEO of CFA said the same things said on a comedy show about gays? He'd be fried in the media. Why not movie producers and actors? Actors could refuse the part if they have to make gay jokes. There is no outrage because Hollywood is glamorous and everybody there is rich. That's what our society is about. No scorn for the rich in this instance.

 

The CEO of CFA is super rich. There is no outrage because by and large Hollywood is pro-SSM so what would they be complaining about?

 

[Balta1701]

OK, what if the CEO of CFA said the same things said on a comedy show about gays? He'd be fried in the media. Why not movie producers and actors? Actors could refuse the part if they have to make gay jokes. There is no outrage because Hollywood is glamorous and everybody there is rich. That's what our society is about. No scorn for the rich in this instance.

Because "We strongly feel that homosexuals are second class citizens and do not deserve equal rights" is pretty darn unfunny.

[greg775]

Such a terrible, terrible comparison. This wasnt one priest greg. This wasnt one act of coverup. Thousands. Thousands of lives shattered.

It is awful. Thing is, there also are many many youth coaches who are abusers. Any positions of power in which an adult can prey on kids, there are abusers.

 

It's not glamorous because there is no need for a large amount of priests.

 

My generation is increasingly unreligious, because that's a viewpoint and way of life. There's a downturn in Priests because they live as very poor in a time where you NEED to have money for bills, housing, and living expenses.

 

So of course there's fewer priests when there are fewer people to preach too.

 

I love one of my missionaries friends very dearly yet she tried to convert me saying God would cure my seizures. She's a Born Again who partied a bit too hard before being "reborn" so she thinks that would fix me. Yet all converting would do for me is ask that I give up my free will, opinions, and change my (in my opinion) very solid morals. I don't have any character issues that need religion to fix exactly.

Actually, we have a real shortage of priests, especially here in Kansas. Churches are having to be merged together and it's pretty awful.

How are your seizures anyway? Has the situation improved at all? Are you having them all the time? Are you on medication that is helping at all? Is the medical community helping or being inefficient about helping you? I'm sure you've heard a lot of stupid stuff regarding your seizures. People should just shut the f*** up and ask you how they can help you in a practical way. Her telling you God will cure your seizures is too simplistic. I mean, yes, if I had the seizures I'd pray they go away but it's wrong to try to convert you in the belief God then will zap away your seizures.

How are you doing? Do you have to go off to college? Are yu gonna be OK?

[greg775]

Well missionaries and priests arent the same. But historically speaking Priest used to be a very powerful, influential and often wealthy member of the community. It is the reason why Nobles would have their 2nd/3rd sons become Priests, or why Kings would have their 2/3rds become Bishops/Pope.

 

People have always been about power and money, the establishment just did a really good job of convincing their flock that they werent about money and power.

 

If you believe in Jesus, you have to remember one of his biggest gripes was about the corruption of the Jewish priests.

 

So this isnt new, its been going on at least 5700 years (I think Jewish calendar is in the year 5700 something).

 

Interesting stuff.

[Soxbadger]

Because "We strongly feel that homosexuals are second class citizens and do not deserve equal rights" is pretty darn unfunny.

 

It could be funny. Imagine if the owner of CFA is dressed like Jefferson Davis and he is speaking to a group of slaves, about how terrible their lives would be if he freed them, because they would have to live with the sinners in the North.

Edited August 2, 2012 by Soxbadger

[Balta1701]

Oh, and just as a reminder, Hollywood actors don't get a pass when they decide to let off a hate filled rant about the gays either.

[Balta1701]

It could be funny. Imagine if the owner of CFA is dressed like Jefferson Davis and he is speaking to a group of slaves, about how terrible their lives would be if he freed them, because they would have to live with the sinners in the North.

Yeah, but you're laughing at the head of CFA in that case, not laughing at the evil gays.

[Soxbadger]

I was making a point about context. That the exact same phrase could be non-offensive in a different context. It was to point out why you cant say "Why arent people attacking Hollywood" well without context of what he is referring to, I dont know.

[Kyyle23]

It is awful. Thing is, there also are many many youth coaches who are abusers. Any positions of power in which an adult can prey on kids, there are abusers.

 

What exactly do you want, greg? You go from one point where you say you are sick of the media sensationalizing it with the Catholic church, and now what are you trying to say, you want them to move on to sensationalizing it about all youth athletics? Well here is where your argument falls through a hole, there isnt a systematic coverup within all youth athletics that allows these rogue POS coaches to continue doing these horrible things like there was within the catholic church. There was ONE university with ONE sicko that got away with what he did due to about 4 people(depending on what you believe) and their inaction. There was hundreds maybe thousands of priests that got away with what they did because the Catholic church covered it up. The comparison is horrible and it shouldnt even be made anymore. It doesnt fit. And before you even ask, I was born, raised and confirmed Catholic. I was absolutely horrified by what has been revealed and absolutely ashamed.

[BigSqwert]

What exactly do you want, greg? You go from one point where you say you are sick of the media sensationalizing it with the Catholic church, and now what are you trying to say, you want them to move on to sensationalizing it about all youth athletics? Well here is where your argument falls through a hole, there isnt a systematic coverup within all youth athletics that allows these rogue POS coaches to continue doing these horrible things like there was within the catholic church. There was ONE university with ONE sicko that got away with what he did due to about 4 people(depending on what you believe) and their inaction. There was hundreds maybe thousands of priests that got away with what they did because the Catholic church covered it up. The comparison is horrible and it shouldnt even be made anymore. It doesnt fit. And before you even ask, I was born, raised and confirmed Catholic. I was absolutely horrified by what has been revealed and absolutely ashamed.

Don’t even bother. If there were an award for the poster who generalizes, based things on personal opinions, and “goes with their gut” the most without every using facts or statistics then greg would be the winner in a landslide.

 

[greg775]

Oh, and just as a reminder, Hollywood actors don't get a pass when they decide to let off a hate filled rant about the gays either.

Interesting stuff.

 

What exactly do you want, greg? You go from one point where you say you are sick of the media sensationalizing it with the Catholic church, and now what are you trying to say, you want them to move on to sensationalizing it about all youth athletics? Well here is where your argument falls through a hole, there isnt a systematic coverup within all youth athletics that allows these rogue POS coaches to continue doing these horrible things like there was within the catholic church. There was ONE university with ONE sicko that got away with what he did due to about 4 people(depending on what you believe) and their inaction. There was hundreds maybe thousands of priests that got away with what they did because the Catholic church covered it up. The comparison is horrible and it shouldnt even be made anymore. It doesnt fit. And before you even ask, I was born, raised and confirmed Catholic. I was absolutely horrified by what has been revealed and absolutely ashamed.

I don't know what I want. I just think it's unfair a whole profession got labeled as scum when I know there are tons of good priests. Basically there are no more priests coming through the U.S. ranks. The profession has been ruined and I think it's unfair because the percentage of abusers is probably similar to the percentage of abusers in all professions where adults are in a position to prey on kids.

[Kyyle23]

I don't know what I want. I just think it's unfair a whole profession got labeled as scum when I know there are tons of good priests. Basically there are no more priests coming through the U.S. ranks. The profession has been ruined and I think it's unfair because the percentage of abusers is probably similar to the percentage of abusers in all professions where adults are in a position to prey on kids.

 

I bet neither of us know the definition of "unfair" quite like those kids who were left in the protection of the church. The percentage doesnt matter, these other professions dont try and cover it up, that we know of. And if they do, and get caught, you know damn well they will be ridiculed just the same.