Chick-Fil-A and Homosexuality

[greg775]

My specific question to you then is...if you believe this is a positive thing for your church (and you seem to genuinely do so)...what have you done this week to show that the hate dumped at CFA does not stand for you? What has your church done?

 

I get pastors on my news at night supporting CFA. Has yours gone on the news and opposed this kind of hate? Called it out? Has your congregation stepped forwards and publicly showed that they don't speak for you?

 

If not, then no matter how welcoming your congregation is...you're still letting the people in the line at CFA speak for you. Because they are getting out and doing all those things to express their intolerance.

 

Good question. It takes a news crew to approach my priest however for him to comment on anything. The news here won't touch religious issues. I know my priest would be against the hate in the air.

This may sound naive of me, but don't some of the CFA appreciation day patrons merely support the CEO's stance on traditional marriage? I mean I am for gay marriage and gay rights, but I do prefer the man/woman thing because of the fact this is how life is formed. Without men/women relations there are no kids and no regeneration of the human race. So my point is I am for the CEO's position on man/woman marriage, but I also support gays' right to marry. If I had to rank them 1-2, the traditional man/woman marriage would definitely top my list. Does that make me bad?

[Balta1701]

Good question. It takes a news crew to approach my priest however for him to comment on anything. The news here won't touch religious issues. I know my priest would be against the hate in the air.

This may sound naive of me, but don't some of the CFA appreciation day patrons merely support the CEO's stance on traditional marriage? I mean I am for gay marriage and gay rights, but I do prefer the man/woman thing because of the fact this is how life is formed. Without men/women relations there are no kids and no regeneration of the human race. So my point is I am for the CEO's position on man/woman marriage, but I also support gays' right to marry. If I had to rank them 1-2, the traditional man/woman marriage would definitely top my list. Does that make me bad?

Frankly, yes. It doesn't impact you in any way whether or not gay people can get married. No one is going to force you to get gay married, no one will force your church to get gay married, why do you get to impose your "preference" on a group of people you're not part of? That is what all of this is about. Someone's "Preference" is not a good reason to deny people the same rights you or I have.

 

And that doesn't even count the multitude of rights that the lack of marriage denies to that group. Why do you think that a gay couple shouldn't be able to visit their partner in the hospital? Why should they be denied death benefits given to straight couples? Why shouldn't they have the same right not to testify against their spouse in court that a straight couple gets? There are some 1100 different rights at the federal level conferred on to married couples, in addition to hundreds more at the state level.

[BigSqwert]

The news here won't touch religious issues.

 

Then why would you say that the news just keeps bashing priests?

 

This may sound naive of me, but don't some of the CFA appreciation day patrons merely support the CEO's stance on traditional marriage? I mean I am for gay marriage and gay rights, but I do prefer the man/woman thing because of the fact this is how life is formed. Without men/women relations there are no kids and no regeneration of the human race. So my point is I am for the CEO's position on man/woman marriage, but I also support gays' right to marry. If I had to rank them 1-2, the traditional man/woman marriage would definitely top my list. Does that make me bad?

 

Perhaps you're not following the story as closely as others. It's not only that he has that opinion but he's also donating millions of dollars to organizations fighting equal rights here in the US. These same organizations are trying to make homosexuality illegal in other countries. bmags posted a great article a little further back in this thread. I suggest you read it.

Edited August 3, 2012 by BigSqwert

[greg775]

Frankly, yes. It doesn't impact you in any way whether or not gay people can get married. No one is going to force you to get gay married, no one will force your church to get gay married, why do you get to impose your "preference" on a group of people you're not part of? That is what all of this is about. Someone's "Preference" is not a good reason to deny people the same rights you or I have.

 

And that doesn't even count the multitude of rights that the lack of marriage denies to that group. Why do you think that a gay couple shouldn't be able to visit their partner in the hospital? Why should they be denied death benefits given to straight couples? Why shouldn't they have the same right not to testify against their spouse in court that a straight couple gets? There are some 1100 different rights at the federal level conferred on to married couples, in addition to hundreds more at the state level.

 

But I keep saying over and over I am for gay rights. I want all the things you suggest in your second paragraph. I just said I do rank my preferences: 1.) Man/woman marriage because without it there is no population. 2.) gay marriage; people can do what they want to do in America as long as it is not a criminal act. I want them to have the same rights, but at the same time, why can't I support traditional marriage as well? And even make it known that is my preference considering I am for all the things you state.

[Balta1701]

But I keep saying over and over I am for gay rights. I want all the things you suggest in your second paragraph. I just said I do rank my preferences: 1.) Man/woman marriage because without it there is no population. 2.) gay marriage; people can do what they want to do in America as long as it is not a criminal act. I want them to have the same rights, but at the same time, why can't I support traditional marriage as well? And even make it known that is my preference considering I am for all the things you state.

Let me ask it this way...do you think that same sex marriage should be illegal? Should your "preference" be codified in to law?

 

I mean, I prefer heterosexual marriage for myself also, as I happen to be heterosexually married. But the way the laws of this country, and frankly many of the people of this country (not all, just the gay-hating ones) treat gay people sickens me.

 

My whole point a moment ago was...if you're a religious person, and you believe that gay people should have the right to get married, even if it isn't something you "prefer"...then you're letting the people who hate gays speak for you.

[Texsox]

I'm sure in many places it is. But then my challenge to the religious is...if you don't want me to lump you in with the people who went to chick fil a yesterday to revel in how much they hate the gay...do something about it! Change your leaders. Create other public groups. When the bishops and the Vatican try to smack down the nuns for daring to question whether the current tax policy is consistent with Jesus's teachings, do something about the bishops! Jesus preached peace all the time, and we've gone to war in his name more times than I can count.

 

The public policy persona of the Religious in this country is "Hate the gays and stop abortion". If you don't like me saying that...great. It's not my responsibility to change it, it's not the media's responsibility to change it...that's what the people who represent the religious in this country want to focus on...if you want that changed, it's the responsibility of the religious to change it. And it's been like that for all my adult life...to the point where one would think "Hmmm, maybe they don't want to change it".

 

Millions and millions of Americans will be sitting in pews this weekend. They will be participating in denominational services and non denominational services. Their leadership will be international and local. There is no central organization. It's not only unobtainable, but unreasonable. You are also painting a Christian-centric picture. What about all of the other religions who do not recognize Christ as their savior?

 

What the media chooses to cover are extremists in all arenas. Moderates are always shut out. What you are asking is for people who wish to worship in their own way to become more militant, more vocal. Why? To attract media coverage? A message of loving your neighbor, of sacrifice, or helping the poor does not sell newspapers, it does not drag in viewers.

 

Some people believe that what they see on TV is the majority. In my experience in Texas and Illinois, that just is not the case.

 

I appreciate the idea behind your post, but I just don't see it as being reasonable.

[Rowand44]

I'm sure this has been brought up in 42 pages but Greg I assume you go to the church of Ozzie?

[Texsox]

My specific question to you then is...if you believe this is a positive thing for your church (and you seem to genuinely do so)...what have you done this week to show that the hate dumped at CFA does not stand for you? What has your church done?

 

I get pastors on my news at night supporting CFA. Has yours gone on the news and opposed this kind of hate? Called it out? Has your congregation stepped forwards and publicly showed that they don't speak for you?

 

If not, then no matter how welcoming your congregation is...you're still letting the people in the line at CFA speak for you. Because they are getting out and doing all those things to express their intolerance.

 

Is it really a requirement that a church try to get in the media on every social issue? You would have every church, every day, clambering for attention. I believe most people are intelligent enough to understand that we have religious freedom and worship in many different ways. I guess many here would classify me among the religious here, I doubt that you would put the words of those groups who support CFA's position in my mouth. So why would you for every other religious person?

[Texsox]

Let me ask it this way...do you think that same sex marriage should be illegal? Should your "preference" be codified in to law?

 

I mean, I prefer heterosexual marriage for myself also, as I happen to be heterosexually married. But the way the laws of this country, and frankly many of the people of this country (not all, just the gay-hating ones) treat gay people sickens me.

 

My whole point a moment ago was...if you're a religious person, and you believe that gay people should have the right to get married, even if it isn't something you "prefer"...then you're letting the people who hate gays speak for you.

 

A leader of a group states away is on the news, how can I change that? Has your University made a statement about CFA? Who are they letting speak for them? Why is the default position supporting CFA? Because SOME churches and SOME religious leaders support them?

 

There is diversity in teaching within "religions". Abortion, capital punishment, marriage, day to worship, dietary rules, customs, communion, rites, rules for priesthood, attire while worshiping, I can go on and on. When a news story quotes a Catholic who is holding a vigil because the state is executing someone and he claims that we shall not kill, and that includes capital punishment (the Catholic Church's official position) that doesn't reflect most protestant religions, and doesn't even reflect some Catholic's position.

 

Is America really that unknowing to think that ALL people who are religious believe and think the same way?

[Y2HH]

We spend entirely too much time on this subject in this country. I guess it shows you how well we really have it here, despite the nonstop complaints about everything from healthcare to wars...if we truly had it rough, we wouldn't f***ing care about something as trivial as this entire topic.

[BigSqwert]

We spend entirely too much time on this subject in this country. I guess it shows you how well we really have it here, despite the nonstop complaints about everything from healthcare to wars...if we truly had it rough, we wouldn't f***ing care about something as trivial as this entire topic.

Leave it to a heterosexual to consider gay rights trivial.

[Y2HH]

Leave it to a heterosexual to consider gay rights trivial.

 

You completely misconstrued what I said. Gay rights aren't what's trivial, the entire argument is. Because it shouldn't matter. At all. *People* should have the same rights as everyone else regardless of their sexual orientation.

 

That's what I said, and that's what I meant.

 

It's trivial that the subject even exists.

 

I do not care about a persons sexual orientation whatsoever. I have so many more important concerns in my life that caring about another persons sexual origination just seems...well...trivial.

Edited August 4, 2012 by Y2HH

[Balta1701]

A leader of a group states away is on the news, how can I change that? Has your University made a statement about CFA? Who are they letting speak for them? Why is the default position supporting CFA? Because SOME churches and SOME religious leaders support them?

 

There is diversity in teaching within "religions". Abortion, capital punishment, marriage, day to worship, dietary rules, customs, communion, rites, rules for priesthood, attire while worshiping, I can go on and on. When a news story quotes a Catholic who is holding a vigil because the state is executing someone and he claims that we shall not kill, and that includes capital punishment (the Catholic Church's official position) that doesn't reflect most protestant religions, and doesn't even reflect some Catholic's position.

 

Is America really that unknowing to think that ALL people who are religious believe and think the same way?

So obviously, the answer is to do nothing, be silent, let the hatemongers be the only religious voices who are ever heard, and continue to be dumbfounded when people lump religion together with the Chick Fillhators and leave it out of their lives.

[greg775]

Let me ask it this way...do you think that same sex marriage should be illegal? Should your "preference" be codified in to law?

 

I mean, I prefer heterosexual marriage for myself also, as I happen to be heterosexually married. But the way the laws of this country, and frankly many of the people of this country (not all, just the gay-hating ones) treat gay people sickens me.

 

My whole point a moment ago was...if you're a religious person, and you believe that gay people should have the right to get married, even if it isn't something you "prefer"...then you're letting the people who hate gays speak for you.

I believe same sex marriage should be legal. I thought I've made that pretty clear. I really don't understand your third paragraph. Yeah I believe gay people should have the right to get married even tho I prefer the man/woman model. How is that taking the side of those who hate gays? I don't get that. I am for gay rights. I am against gay jokes and gay bashing. But I do prefer, yes I do prefer, the man/woman thing. How does that make me bad? I'm trying to figure that out. I'm also not crazy about seeing men kiss in public but it's obviously their right to do so and if they want to do that, more power to 'em. This is the land of the free.

 

 

I'm sure this has been brought up in 42 pages but Greg I assume you go to the church of Ozzie?

I think Ozzie is a Catholic as well so we are the same religion I think.

Edited August 4, 2012 by greg775

[Quin]

I think Ozzie is a Catholic as well so we are the same religion I think.

 

I forget what it is, but I know Ozzie is definitely not Catholic.

[Quin]

You've had some tough things happen to you and your family. Hopefully the next 4/5s of your life will be dandy compared to some of the problems you've had in the first 1/5th.

 

Yeah, I haven't had a hard life (my dad makes really good money as a self employed lawyer, my grandma was wealthy from her dad), it's been a painful one. Dad getting death threats my freshman year of high school (in the name of God no less, and it led to the school placing an administrator to shadow me, unknown to me), a family friend committed suicide after my dad showed up to her house to break her garage window (she tried to suffocate by running the car in the garage...left a voicemail on my dad's phone, my dad breaks the garage window, she shot herself), dad getting cancer (though it was very brief, it's gone now), grandmother getting ALS. Sadly, that's just the half of it. Also being like, the sole Jewish kid meant no one else was at my temple services and I got left out of a lot because everyone else had friends from Church. I had my best friend though, so by around high school I started having more close friends.

 

Why do you think no one guesses my age on the board the first time? Because I had to grow up fast.

 

But yeah, not a lot to make me believe in a God.

 

And you know what, if I'm wrong and there's a heaven after this life, I'll look St. Peter in the eye and be like "well, s***. I was wrong."

[Quin]

This made me laugh and is something I feel is relevant to this thread.

 

Edited August 4, 2012 by Quinarvy

[StrangeSox]

Great post. If you believe in God and believe in community worship, church is a good place to be on Sunday. If you believe in God and you look around for a month, you will find a church that is awesome for you. All you have to do really is believe in God and you'll find the right church. I consider church pretty much the highlight of my week because I consider it uplifting to be with a community of strangers who for one measly hour are doing something uplifting and good. Like I said, my priest is very accommodating to all groups, welcoming straights, gays, poor, wealthy, all colors, treating them all the same.

 

You can get a quasi-religious experience with something like Unitarian Universalists. There are absolutely positive aspects to religion, community-building being one of the most apparent.

[StrangeSox]

My specific question to you then is...if you believe this is a positive thing for your church (and you seem to genuinely do so)...what have you done this week to show that the hate dumped at CFA does not stand for you? What has your church done?

 

I get pastors on my news at night supporting CFA. Has yours gone on the news and opposed this kind of hate? Called it out? Has your congregation stepped forwards and publicly showed that they don't speak for you?

 

If not, then no matter how welcoming your congregation is...you're still letting the people in the line at CFA speak for you. Because they are getting out and doing all those things to express their intolerance.

 

I don't know if I buy this, this is the same line of thought that lets people tar every Muslim in the world with the acts of extremists.

[StrangeSox]

Then why would you say that the news just keeps bashing priests?

 

 

 

Perhaps you're not following the story as closely as others. It's not only that he has that opinion but he's also donating millions of dollars to organizations fighting equal rights here in the US. These same organizations are trying to make homosexuality illegal in other countries. bmags posted a great article a little further back in this thread. I suggest you read it.

 

I really do wish that the media reports were more clear on this. This isn't because he said something offense, it's because he donates millions of dollars to political lobbying groups that fight to keep gays from having equal rights.

[Kyyle23]

I forget what it is, but I know Ozzie is definitely not Catholic.

 

Ozzie follows Santeria

 

From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santer%C3%ADa

 

 

Santeria is a syncretic religion of West African and Caribbean origin influenced by Roman Catholic Christianity.

 

Santería is a system of beliefs that merges the Yoruba religion (which was brought to the New World by West Africans imported to the Caribbean to forcibly work the sugar plantations) with Roman Catholic and Native American traditions.[2] These Africans carried with them various religious customs, including a trance for communicating with their ancestors and deities, animal sacrifice and sacred drumming.

[StrangeSox]

I'm sure this has been brought up in 42 pages but Greg I assume you go to the church of Ozzie?

:lolhitting :lolhitting

[StrangeSox]

You completely misconstrued what I said. Gay rights aren't what's trivial, the entire argument is. Because it shouldn't matter. At all. *People* should have the same rights as everyone else regardless of their sexual orientation.

 

That's what I said, and that's what I meant.

 

It's trivial that the subject even exists.

 

I do not care about a persons sexual orientation whatsoever. I have so many more important concerns in my life that caring about another persons sexual origination just seems...well...trivial.

 

But it does exist because a sizeable portion of our population doesn't believe that they should have the same rights. It shouldn't matter, but it does, and its something people have to fight for. You could have said the same thing in the 60's, that's is trivially clear that blacks should have the same rights as whites. That doesn't mean that they didn't have to fight for them.

[Y2HH]

But it does exist because a sizeable portion of our population doesn't believe that they should have the same rights. It shouldn't matter, but it does, and its something people have to fight for. You could have said the same thing in the 60's, that's is trivially clear that blacks should have the same rights as whites. That doesn't mean that they didn't have to fight for them.

 

Stupid people were stupid in the 60's...and they still are today.

 

I never said it's something they don't have to fight for.

 

I merely said it's trivial that they even have too, because morons force their hand.

[Kyyle23]

i feel like at some point Big Sqwert needs to enter this argument and say "Eat More Chik Peas" and never return to the thread